Is this insulting to you?

[nugov2]

That's not accurate. I'm the poster and I didn't say that Geisha were prostitutes.

Reread what you quoted from me...I said a poster(you) who I thought wouldn't let her dd dress as geisha because she associated with prostitution. ..I then said you clarifield that it was not that.

 

[Deb in IA]

She is in white face because pale skin was seen as the beauty standard then (and still is in some areas). When she was meeting her match maker their make up was used to make their skin look more pale. Disney did it in the traditional sense that is a little over the top. It is no Geisha makeup at all as you pointed out.

I agree.

I am Chinese-American. My parents were born and raised in Shanghai, China; they came to the US, got married here, are naturalized citizens, and I am an American-born citizen.

Yes, geishas are Japanese, not Chinese. However, as Flightless Duck noted, upper class Chinese women used white make-up because pale skin was considered beautiful. It symbolized a woman who did not have to work out in the fields, where the sun would darken her skin. Pale skin, therefore, symbolized a woman of wealth, privilege, and beauty. Some Asian women still use umbrellas to shade themselves from harsh sun.

Mulan's face was white because the matchmaker was trying to get her married off. When she became a soldier, she didn't need make up.

As for the OP's daughter, I think it is up to her. This certainly doesn't have the racial overtones that "blackface"does, but just to be sure it is not taken the wrong way, it may be better to not use it.

 

[mummabear]

The problem is painting her face white. You can have her be Mulan with out painting her face. Her face was only painted in the one scene where she met her match maker.

And yet this is the costume Disney sells:


Not as a warrior which is how she is for most of the film.

 

[wilkeliza]

And yet this is the costume Disney sells:


Not as a warrior which is how she is for most of the film.

Yes but her face does not need to be painted to wear the costume. I said nothing about the costume itself being wrong just the white face paint.

 

[mummabear]

Yes but her face does not need to be painted to wear the costume. I said nothing about the costume itself being wrong just the white face paint.

But your point was her face doesnt need to be white as it is only in one scene, the one scene where she wears this dress.
It is entirely appropriate to match the make up to the dress.

Would it be more appropriate for the Mulan costume to be a warrior costume int he first place? Yes.

 

[bcla]

Yes, geishas are Japanese, not Chinese. However, as Flightless Duck noted, upper class Chinese women used white make-up because pale skin was considered beautiful. It symbolized a woman who did not have to work out in the fields, where the sun would darken her skin. Pale skin, therefore, symbolized a woman of wealth, privilege, and beauty. Some Asian women still use umbrellas to shade themselves from harsh sun.

Perhaps lightening creams these days, but I'm not sure that any kind of extensive white makeup was ever a common everyday thing for a woman to wear.

In Vietnam, a lot of women will completely cover themselves to avoid tanning - even in a tropical climate.

And face masks are getting more popular in China. They may or may not cover the rest of the body, but have a pale tone for the face seems to be the target.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...athers-wear-masks-beat-suns-harmful-rays.html

 

[SMD]

But your point was her face doesnt need to be white as it is only in one scene, the one scene where she wears this dress.
It is entirely appropriate to match the make up to the dress.

Would it be more appropriate for the Mulan costume to be a warrior costume int he first place? Yes.

It's not appropriate to perpetuate an inaccurate stereotype that is portrayed in the movie. Just because that's they way the scene was portrayed in 1998 doesn't make it accurate to Chinese culture. Dig your heels in on the screen accuracy issue, but many will find it offensive.

 

[wilkeliza]

But your point was her face doesnt need to be white as it is only in one scene, the one scene where she wears this dress.
It is entirely appropriate to match the make up to the dress.

Would it be more appropriate for the Mulan costume to be a warrior costume int he first place? Yes.

The official "princess" photo has her does not have her in full white face make up. She also meets in the parks in the dress with out the white face. I was just saying it is not necessary to paint anyone's face white to be Mulan. I don't know why you keep going back to the warrior costume as once again I've not even mentioned that in my conversations on this topic. I was just saying there is no reason to do the white face make up.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

It's not appropriate to perpetuate an inaccurate stereotype that is portrayed in the movie. Just because that's they way the scene was portrayed in 1998 doesn't make it accurate to Chinese culture. Dig your heels in on the screen accuracy issue, but many will find it offensive.

The only thing I can argue here is that the art designer said the white powder was appropriate for the time period. Although that doesn't mean the art director was correct. Since I'm not Chinese, or a historian, let along a Chinese historian, all I've got going for me is Google...

http://www.oocities.org/hollywood/5082/culture.html

(also note that the art director isn't Chinese, either. He's Taiwanese. But maybe he's an expert in the Qing Dynasty in China...)

 

[SMD]

The only thing I can argue here is that the art designer said the white powder was appropriate for the time period. Although that doesn't mean the art director was correct. Since I'm not Chinese, or a historian, let along a Chinese historian, all I've got going for me is Google...

http://www.oocities.org/hollywood/5082/culture.html

(also note that the art director isn't Chinese, either. He's Taiwanese. But maybe he's an expert in the Qing Dynasty in China...)

The dress and the makeup and the rest of the story are from different periods.

 

[Happy_Haunt999]

I haven't had time to read all 5 pages of this thread, and I'm not going to tell you if I'm offended or not over a small child wearing Mulan "matchmaker" makeup but what I will tell you all is this. That is not geisha (even though Japan and the Geisha's were influenced by China and their look). The garb that Mulan wears in that scene in that movie is not a kimono, but in line with the Hanfu from China's Han period. Same with the makeup traditionally in China(From the Tang Dynasty Pd) it was a white base powder with rouge and then a yellowish dusting powder. They would then have their black eyebrows painted on and then elaborate designs painted on their forehead. (Mulan did not have this in the movie, Disney probably left it out because Mulan was late for her Matchmaker). Ok I'm done with our history lesson today lol!

As for the OP, the child is too young for this and everyone will probably get the reference if you just do red lip and maybe light rouging of the cheeks.

 

[bcla]

The only thing I can argue here is that the art designer said the white powder was appropriate for the time period. Although that doesn't mean the art director was correct. Since I'm not Chinese, or a historian, let along a Chinese historian, all I've got going for me is Google...

http://www.oocities.org/hollywood/5082/culture.html

(also note that the art director isn't Chinese, either. He's Taiwanese. But maybe he's an expert in the Qing Dynasty in China...)

Not sure that's right. The art director wasn't from Taiwan. In any case, there's a huge inclusiveness of whether or not someone is Chinese. A lot of people from Taiwan would consider themselves Chinese, as would many from Singapore, Hong Kong, or ethic Chinese from Malaysia, Vietnam, etc.

 

[Dawnlight]

My favorite is still the guy who got "Cracker" in hebrew tattooed on his arm. He was so proud of it because he thought it meant strong. People didn't have the heart to tell him that he got matzo instead of strong haha. They look kind of similar but it is easy to see the different in the two.
חזק = strong where as מצה = matzo

That made me laugh so hard when it was first making the rounds. I think he wanted "otzma" though (which shares 3 letters with matzah), and not "hazak"; either way, not too clever of him to get a tattoo in a language he can't read done by one who also doesn't read it.

I once saw a woman at our gym with a Hebrew tattoo. I was trying to read it without getting too close, not making any sense of it, then it dawned on me that it was "mishpacha" (family), but it was written in reverse order. When will people learn?!

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Not sure that's right. The art director wasn't from Taiwan.

Er, right. I meant the character designer. Chen-Yi Chang.

 

[bcla]

Er, right. I meant the character designer. Chen-Yi Chang.

Oh. Strangely enough he's working in China now.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chen-yi-chang/4/b35/27a

However, many raised in Taiwan would consider themselves Chinese, especially if one has parents or grandparents from mainland China. Chinese identity is quite complex, as I hinted earlier. It's a mix of ethnic, national, and cultural factors. Of course there are those in Taiwan who don't consider themselves Chinese - especially so-called aboriginals.

 

[Plaid Princess]

Some people are looking for excuses to be offended, I think. DD is worried about her Halloween costume for her "friends" party because some well-meaning person suggested that it could be offensive - she's dressing up as a black TV character (Michonne from The Walking Dead) and wearing a dreadlocks wig. Not blackface, which I can understand being offended by considering the history. Just a wig because the character's "look" is really defined by her dreadlocks.

Your daughter sounds awesome.

And unfortunately, there is no right answer. For every person of Chinese descent who says "Yes, that's offensive.", you're going to find one who says "No, I'm not offended, I'm glad that someone wants to dress up as a character that looks like me." And as a white person, I can't speak for people of Chinese descent, I can only try to think critically about my actions/choices and how they may be perceived.

This.

 

[texas disney mom]

This is really silly. I would not listen to any of these people who are advising you to second guess your daughter's choice of costume. And I hate to say it but what a difficult mil. Not her business what Halloween costume you pick.

 

[GPC0321]

I don't know, I'm not Chinese. But I would encourage my daughter to dress in Mulan's warrior outfit than her "go find a man" outfit. Otherwise, you are missing the point of the story.

Yes! I don't know about anyone else, but the character of Mulan would probably be insulted if she's represented in that way. The all dolled up Mulan wasn't the real Mulan.

 

[bcla]

This is really silly. I would not listen to any of these people who are advising you to second guess your daughter's choice of costume. And I hate to say it but what a difficult mil. Not her business what Halloween costume you pick.

I don't think anyone is arguing about not dressing in such a costume. The question is about whether or not white face makeup would be taken the wrong way.

 

[texas disney mom]

[QUOT="bcla, post: 54524273, member: 451830"]I don't think anyone is arguing about not dressing in such a costume. The question is about whether or not white face makeup would be taken the wrong way.[/QUOTE]

This is what I am saying is silly. What is offensive about dressing up like an innocuous movie character? People choosing to be offended by something so minor are trying to control other people. Lets just say its about them not about the white make up.