Is this even legal? (if not, what can be done?)

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

Thank you for your replies. We're In Fl, so I'm sure there are more laws protecting the elderly. I also think that ten floors would be more than enough for this to be a violation.

You've given me great ideas. The problem is that apparently they put up the notice last night, and the elevator will be out of order starting on Monday, so there's really not much time to do anything.

My mom has a medical app on Tuesday (a very important one, not just a routine check-up) which can't be missed, and shouldn't be postponed. She's elderly, with serious back problems. She could make the effort to climb the stairs, but would have to pay the price in pain.

She's dealing with the stress of a recent diagnosis, and now this...

This is just not acceptable & I'm sorry for the stress this must be causing all of you.
I would call my local t.v. stations tonight!
Also call the police station & tell them of your concern....they don't want a law suit if a resident is in need & can't be reached in a timely manner.
I would call my local adult protective services, not only are they keeping the residents locked in their apartments they are locking out those that are not home when the elevator is put out of service.

My biggest concern in a senior building would be if someone needs EMT's & they have to use a staircase to access the individual in need as well as transporting them down flights of stairs on a stretcher.
Are there folks that are wheelchair bound?

Florida

• 1-800-96-ABUSE or 1-800-962-2873
• TDD/TTY: 1-800-453-5145
• Fax: 1-800-914-0004

• 1-800-96ABUSE or 1-800-962-2873

http://law.onecle.com/florida/public-health/399.035.html

 

[moon]

Thank you so much for your help, everyone!

Now they say that the second elevator need to be down for 48 hours for the first to work again -something about a cable connecting both- I don't know about these things, but isn't 48 hours an excesive time? and are the elevators now going to be dependant on each other?

With your help I'm better armed for this. I printed the ADA compliance page, and I'm going to slip it with a note tonight.

Again, thank you!

 

[Obi-Wan Pinobi]

All condos are privately owned. Condos aren't public buildings; they're private residences. That's why some laws that apply to apartment buildings simply don't apply to condos. However, some laws do apply to all multi-family dwellings, regardless of ownership. It all depends on the prevailing state law.

Contacting the fire department is a good idea.

Condos may consist of individual residences that are privately owned, but the building itself has common areas that are publicly accessible. I can't see how the ADA -- a federal law -- doesn't apply.

 

[bicker]

I was thinking specifically of building codes, like certain standardized materials and equipment (like elevators) may need to be used to conform to codes, no matter if the building is privately owned or not.

Right, but taking the elevator down for maintenance is not prohibited by (specifically) building codes. There may be other laws that would cover the elevator having to be operational at all times. And those laws may be among the one's you're referring to here

But, yes, some condo laws are different from apartment buildings.

One of the best indicators of this, for me, is that there are laws related to apartment buildings that require an operational elevator. Why would they have laws that require that for rental apartment buildings if there was actually another law that already required it for everything?

 

[bicker]

Condos may consist of individual residences that are privately owned, but the building itself has common areas that are publicly accessible. I can't see how the ADA -- a federal law -- doesn't apply.

The ADA indeed does not apply to condominiums. We don't have a single accessible unit in our entire complex -- built after the passage of the ADA. Someone in a wheelchair wouldn't even have a way to get to the front door to any of the units.

We unit owners own the common areas. They are not public areas. People are not permitted to come off the street into our common areas. They're private property.

 

[merryweather20]

Thank you so much for your help, everyone!

Now they say that the second elevator need to be down for 48 hours for the first to work again -something about a cable connecting both- I don't know about these things, but isn't 48 hours an excesive time? and are the elevators now going to be dependant on each other?

With your help I'm better armed for this. I printed the ADA compliance page, and I'm going to slip it with a note tonight.

Again, thank you!

I think the problem you'll have with calling in the troops is that its only 48 hours.

I got a notice at my building that said the elevator was going to be out for 3 months. Apparently they were somewhat surprised that I used a wheel-chair full-time and lived on the 6th floor. I called and called and they wouldn't see reason, they kept saying they would deal with it on Thursday. Well I get home on Thursday and they have shut it down already.

I was lucky enough that the lobby was filled with people who were about ready to lynch the guy, so they ended up putting me in a hotel for the duration, and I shelled out for new clothes, medication, bath seat etc. myself.

I don't want to know what that cost them and I'm sure it was more than what was required, but I think the guy finally realized they screwed up and they should have talked to me back when I started calling and that they had missed all the free ways to deal with it. Well he realized it after I told him He somehow forgot that I had a Lake view and that there were people on the ground floor who would love to switch with me, and that his company owned 20 buildings in the city and another 40 in Mississauga all of which had at least 1 vacancy, or they could have simply given me the 2 months notice required in my lease or anything!

Around here there are private paramedics who you can hire to assist someone down the stairs, like your Mom for her doctor's appointment. You might get either the building or her insurance to cover something like this. The fire department would do this for free if it was a surprise situation or the person couldn't afford private paramedics.

 

[Obi-Wan Pinobi]

The ADA indeed does not apply to condominiums. We don't have a single accessible unit in our entire complex -- built after the passage of the ADA. Someone in a wheelchair wouldn't even have a way to get to the front door to any of the units.

We unit owners own the common areas. They are not public areas. People are not permitted to come off the street into our common areas. They're private property.

Is your condo complex like the OP's? A 10 story building with what sounds like a common lobby to access the stairs or elevators to reach the upper floors and the residences open into a hallway? Please correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like your complex is more like a series of one- and two-story attached townhouse units with exterior entrances to each. OP, also please correct me if I'm wrong on how yours is set up.

If I'm correct, I think there's a big difference between the two. If someone in a wheelchair moved into a complex like the one I'm envisioning Bicker's is like, someone could have a ramp built for access and not have to worry. With a 10 story building like the OP's, they're dependent on the elevator.

It also seems like it would inconvenience more than just the residents. Someone already mentioned emergency personnel and I mentioned delays in the maintenance. What about someone who drops by to visit a resident and the visitor can't walk several flights of stairs? UPS, USPS, or FedEx deliverers who need to take packages to someone on an upper floor?

Maintenance is necessary, but if it means both elevators will be out of service, the condo association really should have given a lot more notice than what they did. Considering it's a 55+ building and more of a likelihood of residents dependent on the elevator, I also wonder if there's anything in the contract provisions that mandate at least one functioning elevator at all times.

 

[JR6ooo4]

I would assume the condo and its rules are set up similar to those in illinois. Each building has a condominium association. The owners vote at the association meetings. you need to be active in the meetings or unpleasant things like this will always pop up. that is the problem with associations, other people controlling your property. usually to a much greater extent than the already strict local city/town/village ordinances.

sorry the've done this. hopefully the town will help.

what happens if emergency medical personal need to get a stretcher to the upper floors any one of those two days?

Mikeeee

 

[bicker]

Is your condo complex like the OP's?

The ADA does not draw any distinctions along the lines you referred to. It just simply doesn't apply to private residences.

I used to live in a condo where I had to walk up four flights of steps... no elevators.

If I'm correct, I think there's a big difference between the two.

Again, the point is that the ADA doesn't make such a distinction. The ADA does not apply to private residences.

Again, various other state laws may or may not apply. The earlier suggestion to call on the fire department was the best one I've seen, so far.

 

[agnes!]

I think that all the residents from the upper floors should invite themselves to stay wherever the condo board-members live...*especially* if they live on the 1st or 2nd floors .

agnes!

 

[manning]

Thank you for your replies. We're In Fl, so I'm sure there are more laws protecting the elderly. I also think that ten floors would be more than enough for this to be a violation.

You've given me great ideas. The problem is that apparently they put up the notice last night, and the elevator will be out of order starting on Monday, so there's really not much time to do anything.

My mom has a medical app on Tuesday (a very important one, not just a routine check-up) which can't be missed, and shouldn't be postponed. She's elderly, with serious back problems. She could make the effort to climb the stairs, but would have to pay the price in pain.

She's dealing with the stress of a recent diagnosis, and now this...

Make the call. You'll be surprised how fast they can act. The can come out and put a halt to the repair and may order the other elevator be repaired first

Failure to make the call will just delay what has to be done!!!

 

[kaytieeldr]

The ADA does not draw any distinctions along the lines you referred to. It just simply doesn't apply to private residences.

True - but the Fair Housing Act does. So does common sense. It seems asinine to provide no-business-day notice to tenants that they will have no elevator access for at least 48 hours.

aside: do I know where you live? I'm NOT going to test the validity of a lack of public areas or come looking for you - but can you see 'the highway' across the street and a strip of land?

 

[bicker]

True - but the Fair Housing Act does.

That is true. Unfortunately, that's the key distinction between the nature of the ADA (which provides for accommodation) and the nature of the Fair Housing Act (which only prohibits discrimination). It is one thing (among many) that we need to remedy in our federal laws, but state laws do help bridge the gap. However, as I've made clear already, it hasn't provided for universally accessible condominium housing here in MA.

So does common sense.

I've learned that people equate whatever they believe with "common sense". As such, there is no such thing as common sense. It is just billions of individual senses, with some commonalities, perhaps, but also many many differences.

but can you see 'the highway' across the street and a strip of land?

Huh? Really? You have GOT to come to our Bring a Friend Sunday next month!

 

[JR6ooo4]

Condos may consist of individual residences that are privately owned, but the building itself has common areas that are publicly accessible. I can't see how the ADA -- a federal law -- doesn't apply.

in illinois there are only three objects in a condo

units (sold by deed - private)

limited common elements (areas owned by all unit owners non exclusively - but exclusive rights are assigned) similar to a balcony. it is not deeded to you, but your neighboring unit owner, while owning a piece of it, can not come over and camp on it.

common elements (areas owned by all unit owners non exclusively) all owners have the right of use and enjoyment. Driveways, pools, lobby etc..


MIkeeee

 

[ChristmasElf]

If you google elevator laws in florida a page that lists all the Florida statues will run down all the rules and regulations.


http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/HR/statutes/documents/2008_399.pdf

Scroll down to page 5 and at the right side top of that page and the top of page 6 points out that in buildings with three floors or higher must have at least one elevator in operation at all times and be large enough to accomodate the size of an ambulance stretcher in case of an emergency situation. FL.Stat 399.035

I don't know if I would wait til tomorrow. The news channels are up all night. Call them tonight and see if that will at least get someone to help before tomorrow morning. I hope no one in your building needs to call 911 tomorrow with no working elevator.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

If you google elevator laws in florida a page that lists all the Florida statues will run down all the rules and regulations.


http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/HR/statutes/documents/2008_399.pdf

Scroll down to page 5 and at the right side top of that page and the top of page 6 points out that in buildings with three floors or higher must have at least one elevator in operation at all times and be large enough to accomodate the size of an ambulance stretcher in case of an emergency situation. FL.Stat 399.035

I don't know if I would wait til tomorrow. The news channels are up all night. Call them tonight and see if that will at least get someone to help before tomorrow morning. I hope no one in your building needs to call 911 tomorrow with no working elevator.

Great information.
Like I said last night I would get on the phone with the EMT's, police & fire department. They don't want to be in an emergency situation & not be able to get to a resident calling with chest pain on the 10th floor & no elevator. This situation could be the difference between life & death.

 

[manning]

Like I said in a previous post, make the call. If you don't, nothing happens, if you do the authorities may step in and do something about it. Like my dad would say "Just do it!!".......just do it, make the call.

 

[C.Ann]

Well that's an accident waiting to happen.. Someone like me (soon to be 60 - with health issues) could NOT - under ANY circumstances - climb stairs all the way to the 10th floor.. That's insane!!

 

[DizBelle]

What is the status of this?

 

[moon]

After much discussing and threats with both the elevator repair company and the condominum board, they decided to postpone the dates of the second elevator repair, and will make it so the residents can call if they need to use it.

So It looks like things will work out.

I really want to thank all of you guys, I truly appreciate your advice and concern.

Now I'm off to my mom's appointment. I hope we get some needed good news.