Is the "problem" that DVC is a CRO Bust?

[salmoneous]

Just a random thought (this is probably too cranky and negative - but that's how I'm feeling today.)

To me, it's been becoming clearer and clearer that DVC resorts are CRO busts - places Disney has not been successful renting through CRO. When Disney is overbooked at All-Stars and moving folks into SSR for free, it's clear things aren't working on the CRO front.

As such, Disney doesn't want our points. They can't turn points into CRO $$$. So they've been giving away Double Developer Points as a sales incentive (Disney is indifferent between $8 and two years of points) and giving very little value back through the Disney Collection and DCL.

But, that's not enough, so now Disney is taking it to the next level. To *really* discourage the Disney Collection they add a $95 fee and make it tougher to use with only an 8 month window.

Change the marketing name to try and get turn the CRO thing around.

And, to top it off, go ahead and sell those 2043+ years rather than wait for it to come back to CRO.

Note - I went back and forth between saying DVC in general has been a bust, and saying SSR/OKW has been a CRO bust. Hard to say about VWL/BCV/BWV, as there is so little CRO opportunity…

 

[bavaria]

I also suspect that not many 'normal' ie non DISboard readers know that they can rent DVC units for cash. Those that do read here are usually referred to the 'rent/trade' board.

You are definitely on to something with your theory

 

[Enna]

Your theory is pretty much the exact reasoning my guide offered when I asked for more info. For each hotel stay on points, DVC needs to rent a room to cover that cost.

 

[Snookies]

...Note - I went back and forth between saying DVC in general has been a bust, and saying SSR/OKW has been a CRO bust. Hard to say about VWL/BCV/BWV, as there is so little CRO opportunity…

I think you have a plausible explanation. I think the fee and longer-lead time are attempts to discourage exchanges to the Disney Collection, with the exception of DLR at least until there is a DVC at DL. I would also expect that the constraint about booking and traveling in the last 120-days of UY will be waived for DLR just as the 60-day rule has been waived for DLR.

DVC in general has been successful from a sales perspective. But, you may also remember that when the free-dining upgrades were offered, as well as when the AKL moves to OKW or SSR were offered, there seemed to be a significant number of "I don't want to stay in any stinkin' villas" posts on the resort boards. Anecdotally, at least, that type of reaction seems to be consistent with your view.

 

[Sammie]

Well if CRO is having trouble renting units at DVC resorts, personally I think it is because guests come here to get info about a product that they are not familar with and the members scare them off.

I mean good grief read the threads on these forums lately, its worse than the nightly news.

 

[LIFERBABE]

I completely agree.

This move to the $95 fee clearly shows they do not want us using our points at Disney resorts. I was just thinking about this morning.

There is a trade deficit and DVC needs to make it less attractive for us to use our points at the Disney resorts.

Adding the fee, makes it as attractive as using our points in the concierge collection, which everybody knows, is rarely used by members. DVC feels by adding this fee, it will encourage us to use our points to trade out to II and the Concierge collection.

So I WILL choose to only use my points for DVC reservations on points, I WILL use my 11 month booking window to ensure I use up my yearly allotment of points every year and I WILL not trade out to DCL, Concierge, or II. And I WILL be selling 75% of our points

 

[bavaria]

I mean good grief read the threads on these forums lately, its worse than the nightly news.

 

[Snookies]

...I WILL use my 11 month booking window to ensure I use up my yearly allotment of points every year...

BTW LIFERBABE, using up my yearly allotment of points every year has not been a problem for me

 

[JimMIA]

I don't think there is much doubt that DVC sales have been a huge plus to Disney, so I wouldn't say DVC is a bust. However that revenue certainly slows down when they "sell out," because then all they have to sell are ROFR'd points, foreclosures, etc. Still, I think the fact that they are continually expanding DVC shows that the program itself is a huge success.

That said, I think you probably are on to something as far as CRO is concerned. If for no other reason, I'd say DVC/CRO is a bust simply because of all the threads we get wanting to know why they can't get a points ressie, but there is plenty of CRO availability. They obviously have rooms at many resorts most of the time.

I don't know why they don't do better through CRO. They seem to do a pretty pitiful job of marketing DVC/CRO and I'm sure that has something to do with it. Or maybe their pricing structure just pushes the CRO rates too high and people rent a home offsite. They might also be getting more exchanges out than they expected and may just be getting more inventory than they can move.

 

[jarestel]

If reading the resorts boards is any accurate indication of anything, it seems most CRO guests consider the monorail and Magic Kingdom views to be the epitome of Disney's deluxe offerings. DVC, currently anyway, has no monorail access and offers no views that many hotel guests would consider paying for, BWV being the exception. The price of a DVC villa gets them into the Polynesian or GF hotels and all of the assorted guest pleasures that come with those hotels. I think we, DVCers, tend to over-estimate the value of a room with lots of space while the WDW hotel guest is more inclined to want to stay at the WDW "deluxe" hotels if they are going to spend that much $$$.

 

[gkrykewy]

I completely agree.

This move to the $95 fee clearly shows they do not want us using our points at Disney resorts. I was just thinking about this morning.

There is a trade deficit and DVC needs to make it less attractive for us to use our points at the Disney resorts.

If there is a deficit, and if the alternatives are to institute this $95 fee or to increase everyone's dues to make up the shortfall, then I'm very glad that they've chosen the fee. Personally, I would never think of staying at a non-DVC WDW resort on points (or even a Disney Cruise, to a lesser extent) due to the exhorbitant comparative point cost.

What I'd like to see is more communication between DVC and the condo association (us) about these cost issues, and perhaps more discussion/voting on alternatives.

 

[ursijam]

I think that the more likely reason for all of the CRO availability at SSR is that they have completed the construction but have not sold all of the interests in the units.

I think that once all of the interests are sold, we will see things tighten up a bit at SSR. (Then we will probably see more CRO availability at AKV as they come online.... They seem to be selling pretty well, though.)

 

[jarestel]

I think that the more likely reason for all of the CRO availability at SSR is that they have completed the construction but have not sold all of the interests in the units.

It's not just at SSR though. You can almost always find a DVC room at any DVC resort for cash even though one is not available on points. Which is Salmoneous' point, I believe. DVC is popular among members, not so much so among WDW resort guests.

 

[MiaSRN62]

salmoneous says :and saying SSR/OKW has been a CRO bust. Hard to say about VWL/BCV/BWV, as there is so little CRO opportunity…

Keep in mind, these free upgrades to OKW and SSR are during normally low occupation times anyway---both for DVC and normal guests. The free dining produced a boom for those trying to squeeze a vacation or a second trip in to WDW for as cheap as possible----thus all the values filled up VERY quickly.

OKW and SSR are the largest DVC resorts----have the most rooms---so not suprising they would have the availability.

We actually wanted to stay in an OKW studio (cash basis) for the first weekend in Oct coming off our cruise. Nothing was available except a 1 bedroom and higher. The one bedroom is still there now and is $420/night. I just don't feel those coming in for "free" dining want to pay that much for a room ? We were unable to get a studio at OKW going back 2 months ago and I keep checking. We are now at POFQ but it's not my preference.

So I think some of what you're saying here about OKW/SSR being a bust for CRO has be be looked at a little closer. These rooms are being given away during a normally low time for tourists to visit. These two are also the largest DVC resorts...so they, naturally are not going to sell out faster than the smaller DVC resorts.

 

[diznyfanatic]

I think they don't do better through CRO for a few reasons.

1. PRICE
2. Most people do not understand what they are/are not getting with a DVC villa.
3. Disney has done a poor job of marketing to fill these rooms via CRO. I think that was one reason for the CRO DVC category name change recently.
4. The DVC counter food offerings are inconsistent. BWV, for example, doesn't even offer a counter service option for the price and OKW's is limited.
5. PRICE

 

[todd222222]

It's not just at SSR though. You can almost always find a DVC room at any DVC resort for cash even though one is not available on points. Which is Salmoneous' point, I believe. DVC is popular among members, not so much so among WDW resort guests.

I'm new at this and still trying to figure this all out.

but why does this happen? Are so many units set aside for non-DVC members? (cash). If this is the case this does not make since to me.

If this is "the" question at hand then it really confuses me. It's my understanding that DVC members are owners of these resorts, wouldn't you have a say on how they are run and sold? Or does Disney still own a controlling interest? Does each resort have to have so many cash customers to meet all it's cost?

Again I'm new and trying to understand this thread.

 

[jarestel]

but why does this happen? Are so many units set aside for non-DVC members? (cash). If this is the case this does not make since to me.

If this is "the" question at hand then it really confuses me. It's my understanding that DVC members are owners of these resorts, wouldn't you have a say on how they are run and sold? Or does Disney still own a controlling interest? Does each resort have to have so many cash customers to meet all it's cost?

There are a few reasons why DVC rooms are available for cash. One is that not 100% of the rooms are owned by members. Most are, but not all. Secondly, whenever a member trades points for a non-DVC option (cruise, hotel, etc) those points are used to recoup the cost of the trade-out by renting the DVC room for cash. Third, at 60 days out, rooms that are not reserved on points are turned over to CRO for cash reservations, the assumption being that members will not be using the rooms. (It is sometimes possible for a member to re-claim one of these unsold rooms if they've not been rented.)

As far as the second part of your question goes, DVC can pretty much do as they please since the only alternative members have is to vote to remove them as the managing entity for the timeshare program. This would effectively remove the resort(s) from the Disney DVC program and as such is not a viable option.

 

[tjkraz]

I think it's because Disney is getting ready to open a couple hundred Contemporary Suites to cash guests, and they expect demand for DVC villas to drop off.

 

[MrsNick]

I think they don't do better through CRO for a few reasons.

1. PRICE
2. Most people do not understand what they are/are not getting with a DVC villa.
3. Disney has done a poor job of marketing to fill these rooms via CRO. I think that was one reason for the CRO DVC category name change recently.
4. The DVC counter food offerings are inconsistent. BWV, for example, doesn't even offer a counter service option for the price and OKW's is limited.
5. PRICE

You hit the nail on the head.

DVC villas are really pricey on cash. Most people still vacation the old fashioned way - in a hotel room - and don't really see the value of spending all the extra money when "a hotel room will do."

Most people don't even know what they are. They may even think that they are inferior to the Disney hotels. I've seen threads where people ask if they stay at a DVC, can they get Magical Express, or use the Disney bus system, or get EMH.

Some may think that they are the equivalent of an off-site rental. Many probably don't know that they have Deluxe theming. They don't know what amenities DVC accomodations offer. That is at least partially due to lack of marketing, IMO. If Disney changes the name of the category but doesn't do anything to really introduce the concept to the public and give them some incentives to stay in DVC villas, then I don't think there will be much of a change.

 

[tfc3rid]

I think the answer is to have a 120-day window for cash bookings at the DVC resorts... After that, it's back to DVC inventory... We have too many members on wait lists for our own darn resorts...