Is the "hail-mary" pass REALLY acceptable?

[twinspluscade]

"How the "hail mary" thing actually works is like this :

1) One parent gets in line with small child.
2) Parent two waits a minute and then gets in line themselves (with at least one "cycle" of people in between parent one and parent two)
3) As parent one gets off the ride with child they pass the small child to the parent already waiting in line (easy to do on something like Dumbo, this isn't like jumping the queue at Pirates or Splash)
4) Child gets to ride again with Parent Two, who was already in line, while Parent One continues out and waits at the exit."

Nope, that's the "Chuck Bubba relay" according to the U/G. The "Hail Mary pass" is what the OP described in her first post; they are two different techniques.

 

[Sleeping Becca]

I believe it is called the Chuck and Bubba relay.

You beat me to it.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

LOL I guess I need to revisit the UG then.

In that case, I agree - the "hail mary" should be shunned.

NED

 

[kvogel11202]

It seems to me the issue isn't so much a little one (under 5) needing to use the bathroom, it's more the 1 adult gets in line, and everyone else joins that person near the front. If your child is over the age of 5 and cannot wait in line, don't go to Disney. It's not the place for you. My kids have always been made to wait their turn. It's a valuable lesson, one a lot of adults could learn as well.

 

[Cool-Beans]

The Hail-Mary Pass is ONE adult and SMALL joining the line just prior to getting on the ride. According to the UG, you can do this...

at MK: Treehouse, Country Bears, Carousel, Dumbo, Teacups, Peter Pan, Snow White

Epcot: LWTL, SE

MGM: Indiana Jones, Sounds Dangerous

AK: TriceraTop Spin

 

[coach's wife]

WOW WEEWEE......I didn't know that this was such a hot topic. I wouldn't really have thought twice about this, now I will when we go in Dec. I have to admit I planned on doing it when we go if need be. I have a 5 yo who can wait his turn. (yes we have taught him the virtue of patience) however I have a 14 month old that doesn't know what that is. Any of you who have kids knows what I mean. When we go to the rides meant for toddlers and younger I thought that if she started to get ants in her pants that we would leave and catch up with Daddy later in the ride. If you are at the rides for the younger kids and you need to meet up later ... that to me should be a issue.

Disney is meant for the KID in all of us. Go and enjoy.....It is Disney after all. HAVE FUN!

 

[jenjersnap]

No, that does not bother me at all.

What does bother me is when one adult is on line and lets the rest of the grown up adult family in front.....that's line cutting. There should be a rule that if you are not in a diaper or need a binkie or a bottle or a stroller you should stand in line like everyone else

I agree 100% with this. Yes, you can call it line cutting, but I think it's merciful for the kid, the parent and the neighbors in line so it doesn't bother me a bit.

 

[Lorelai]

If your child is over the age of 5 and cannot wait in line, don't go to Disney. It's not the place for you. My kids have always been made to wait their turn. It's a valuable lesson, one a lot of adults could learn as well.

Yes, and for those adults who accompany the child who comes to a ride late, well then - Disney is not for you either! And it's not for the adult holding the place in line. Actually, it's especially not for you - you line holder! You need not come to Disney, or even to Orlando for that matter.

( just kidding - I agree that older kids (non-trainers) need to wait in line just like everyone else. I just thought the wording of the post read very funny.)

 

[MissMichelle]

I don't mind when it is someone with kids...What if they had just stepped out to bring the child to the bathroom? You aren't going to ask them I am sure....But my thing is when it is adults ...I saw in February in the FP line no less, a group that had gotten split up and was using the Nextel 2 ways, and said " we are already in the FP line, get in here"....and the other half of the ADULT group pushed their way through ....

I will mention though (with the option of getting flamed), that my son was going on Soarin with my mom while I went to bring my niece to the bathroom and to get a snack (no real wait time) and my mom called my cell and said my son wouldn't go on without me once they were nearing the front ...I asked a CM if I could head up and they walked me up the FP lane to the front until they got there and I rode with them...I felt horrible doing it, becuase In MY eyes it WAS cutting, and maybe we should have told him forget it, he wasn't riding then and gotten out of line and gotten in the back but then again that is another thread in itself.

 

[dizplanner]

I won't have a problem with one adult and under age 5 children joining the party in line, but only at rides where it is easy to access the front part of the line. In other words, if you have to push your way past everyone in line - bad idea. If you can duck under the rope to join your party, OK. So read the whole thing and only do it at the rides listed.

 

[deekaypee]

Strategies Sanctioned by the UG. Typos aside, these are direct quotes from my 2006 DLR UG, which contains the same information on these techniques as the WDW UG. (I have also eliminated specific rides/#s from the information.)

The Hail Mary Pass:
Certain waiting lines are configured in such a way that you and your smaller children can pass under the rail to join your partner just before boarding or entry. This technique allows the kids and one adult to rest, snack, cool off, or tinkle, while another adult or older sibling does the waiting. Other guests are understanding when it comes to using this strategy to keep small children content. You are likely to meet hostile opposition however, if you try to pass older children or more than one adult under the rail.

Switching Off (also known as The Baby Swap):
Several attractions have minimum height and/or age requirements, usually 40 inches tall to ride with an adult, or 7 years of age and 40 inches tall to ride alone. [...]A better way to approach the problem is to take advantage of an option known as "switching off" or "The Baby Swap." Switching off requires at least two adults. Everybody waits in line together, both adults and children. When you reach a Disney attendant (known as a "greeter"), say you want to switch off. The greeter will allow everyone, including the small children, to enter the attraction. When you reach the loading area, one adult will ride while the other stays with the kids. The riding adult then disembarks and takes responsibility for the children while the other adult rides. A third adult in the party can ride twice, once with each of the switching-off adults, so they do not have to experience the attraction alone.

How to Ride Twice in a Row without Waiting:
Many small children like to ride a favorite attraction two or more times in succession. Riding the second time often gives the child a feeling of mastery and accomplishment. Unfortunately, repeat rides can be time-consuming even in the early morning. [...] The best way for getting your child on the ride twice or more) without blowing your whole morning is by using the "Chuck-Bubba Relay" (named in honor of a reader from Kentucky):
1) Mom and little Bubba enter the waiting line
2) Dad lets a certain number of people go in front of him [xx in the case of Dumbo] and then gets in line.
3) As soon as the ride stops, Mom exits with little Bubba and passes him to Dad to ride the second time.
4) If everybody is really getting into this, Mom can hop in line again, no less than [xx] people behind Dad.

The Chuck-Bubba Relay will not work on every ride because of the differences in the way the waiting areas are configured (i.e., it is impossible in some cases to exit the ride and make the pass). The rides where the Chuck-Bubba Relay does work appear on the chart below [eliminated] along with the number of people to count off.

When practicing the Chuck-Bubba Relay, if you are the second adult in line, you will reach a point in the waiting area that is obviously the easiest place to make the hand-off. Sometimes this point is where those exiting the ride pass closest to those waiting to board. In any event, you will know when you see it. Once there, if the first parent has not arrived with little Bubba, just let those behind you slip past until Bubba shows up.

 

[Scraper]

Yes, and for those adults who accompany the child who comes to a ride late, well then - Disney is not for you either! And it's not for the adult holding the place in line. Actually, it's especially not for you - you line holder! You need not come to Disney, or even to Orlando for that matter.

( just kidding - I agree that older kids (non-trainers) need to wait in line just like everyone else. I just thought the wording of the post read very funny.)

Ok maybe if all you guys feel so strongly about this I will have to change my line holding ways. I realy thought it was ok to send DH for fast pass while I got in line. Wait till I tell him we can't do this. " you line holder"

 

[Quinn222]

It doesn't bother me if it doesn't affect the wait of the people behind. If you hand one kid to dad already in the line and both of them are sharing one vehicle then fine, it's not going to affect anyone's wait. If you try and pass three kids in and it's going to take two vehicles, then no, it's not ok. Just my opinion.

 

[deekaypee]

Now I'd like to join in with some general impressions I've gathered from other threads on this topic, which keeps coming up and so obviously strikes a chord in many of us. For various reasons I'm pretty neutral, even ambivalent, on the subject of line-cutting. I generally don't say anything when it happens and pretty much don't even take much notice. So I'm speaking pretty broadly here, not just about this thread but others, and not about any one poster's ideas...take the summary comments for what they're worth.

It seems to me that most of us DIS posters strike some sort of a middle ground, making distinctions between line-cutting and acceptable line-leaving and joining situations. In so doing, we make subtle distinctions based on our impression of the individual's situation based on broad categories. Most obviously, we take into account the age and number of children. Bringing younger children into the queue at a later point, say 5 and under, seems to be more acceptable than older children--especially tweens and teens.

It's also my impression that people are more understanding if the entire family joins the line and waits for the ride/attraction rather than "catches up" with one member. The family should join the line after having collected FPs, gone to the bathroom (often with the adults "needing" the potty break in order to encourage children to use the bathroom), and gotten any required food and drink. Other posters here have noted that children are being socialized in various things: appropriate public behavior, patience, and fairness.

If, after having joined the line, a member of the party needs to leave, it's probably acceptable for that invidual to leave for a short time. If that individual is a child, an adult member of the party may also leave. They are to return to the queue after the situation is resolved, but before their party gets to the front of the queue. [There seems to be a lot of debate about what constitutes appropriate situtations, with bathroom breaks ranking much higher than, for instance, eating and shopping. Impatience or fidgety-ness seems to rank in between.] Even this general guideline isn't firm, though, as a single adolescent or adult entering without children may looked upon with suspicion. Two or more adolescents or adults may be frowned on, and large groups that (re)enter the queue are cheating.

I'm sure I've missed out on some general situations, and I haven't covered the UG strategies specifically, but to my understanding that's been the gist of several recent threads on lines.

Now, what have I missed?

 

[Disneyhappy]

The worst lin ecutting I experienced was at Soarin last week. We did the rope drop and still waited in line for over 30 minutes - I think it was actually 45 minutes. About 20 different people butted in line in front of us. I think they were the fast pass volunteers who then met up with their party. No kids - just the adults. A gentleman behind us became really irate but that story is a whole other thread!

 

[Sleeping Becca]

OK that was really funny! Thanks! You nailed it!

 

[AKLRULZ]

As a 25+ year Youth Development Professional, this topic hits a nerve with me. I am reading more and more on these boards and in books like the one you mentioned, parents stating that their kids cannot wait patiently in line, therefore they resort to tactics similar to this one you are talking about.
Children are by nature fidgety. Waiting in line or waiting your turn is a learned behavior, not one that comes naturally. Parents are not doing their kids a favor by avoiding lines or waits. Kids learn by experiencing. Waiting in line is a learning experience.
But now you have parents going out of their way to ensure their kids are never discomforted in anyway. They feel the necessity to install a DVD player in their car so the kids are not bored during the ten minute drive to the grocery store.
I recently saw that a chain of grocery stores is test marketing carts that parents can rent that have a built in DVD and video game system to entertain the kids while mom is shopping.
If children never experience the discomfort of waiting in line or waiting their turn, they will never learn patience.
I can not think of a better place than Disney for children to experience the discomfort of waiting in a line and the reward for their patience. Parents should explain to their kids "If you want to ride Dumbo you will have to wait patiently in line." The child then knows what is expected and he/she is rewarded if they wait patiently. If the child becomes too fidgety, she/he should be corrected. If they continue the inappropriate behavior, the parent should remove them from the line and explain that the reason they can not ride is because they were not able to wait patiently.
In addition children to need to learn concepts such as "fairness". Is it fair that other people have to wait in line and they don't?
Sorry for the soap box, but like I said, this issue hits a nerve with me.

Right on! We're raising a generation of kids who will grow up to be babies.

 

[badblackpug]

I have to agree with "dicdover" ( ) Children need to be taught to follow basic rules and courtesy. It is very difficult to explain to your brood, who have been patiently waiting for an hour, regardless of age, why another child doesn't have to wait. If your children are too young to comprehend "wait your turn" then, perhaps they are too young for WDW. That being said, I think EVERY parent on the Dis who has ever had a preschooler understands the "...but I have to go NOW!" This is assuming that the child was in line to begin with. I think almost everybody will understand getting out of line and then back in for a little one with an "emergency potty situation."
The worst case of line cutting I experienced was on Splash Mountain on the 4th of July. The group in front of us was constantly talking on walkie talkies. When they (and we) got to the front of the line, they called the rest of their group, children of all ages and adults, about 7 people in total, who got to "walk right on!" Talk about being hot and cranky!

 

[HawkeyeThad]

Definitely a case of line cutting. I have no problem if a young child is in line, and has to go. What I do have a problem with is people not waiting in line at all and then jumping in at the end. When I was 4, I can remember waiting 45 minutes for Mr. Toad, or 2 hours for 20,000 Leagues. Did I enjoy it? No. But that's part of going to Disney. Stop spoiling your children!

 

[sjms71]

I scanned thru the posts and didn't see this however, if your kid needs a break, snack whatever isn't that one of the points to fastpass? If it's a 30 min wait then get a fastpass and the entire family can sit and wait instead of stand in line for that long?