Is Michael Reagan a Catholic?

[PamOKW]

Many people wear crosses as a fashion statement more than because of any religious connection. I can't say for sure what they represent for Patti.

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Diva, are you in the Diocese of Bridgeport? In all the various Catholic churches in my area they have all begun adding "Thine is the kingdom" for at least the past 10 years. I'm surprised to hear that not all Catholic churches in the U.S. and certainly in CT are not on the same page with that one. We also have a mix of individuals that either hold hands with one another or raise their hands to God (like the priest). I think the people with their hands raised are part of the Charismatic movement. It's funny that we've gone from a church where every mass would be the same no matter where you attended to a variety of practices within one church.

Sunni, you really are asking for a complete explanation of the Catholic faith. I'm sure everyone here will try to answer your questions but if you truly are interested and what clear explanations, the ETWN link is a good one.

Here's a link to another site that can provide answers. I've put in the link to the section on Reconciliation.

Catholic Answers

I'm in the Archdiocese of Hartford. I have gone to the same Church my whole life and it's very traditional. My SIL is also in the Hartford diocese, but when I went to her daughter's Communion, they had a few different words here and there in the Our Father and I was kind of surprised. I live a very sheltered life! LOL I'll have to call her and ask her if they add the Thine is the Kingdom part in hers. I'm not against it at all, it's just that we don't say it. Then again, we still ring the bells during certain parts of the Mass and I haven't heard that in any other Church but mine since I was a child.

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by Jennyfyar
I don't understand the comments on holding hands during the Our Father/Lord's Prayer. For at least ten years we have held hands, joining the entire congregation in prayer. I like it. (I'm Catholic.)

On a side note, I noticed Patti Davis wearing cross earrings and a cross necklace on Friday. Ron did not bow his head during prayer.

I"m not against it. I'm just stating I don't do it. I'm a traditionalist, I guess. And it's very sporadic as to who does it and who doesn't at my Church. I notice the Saturday night at 4:30 Mass goers are much bigger hand holders than the Sunday at 9:30 am set.

 

[LScot]

Kristy said,"
"Then why do you pray for one another? How is that different than us asking the saints to pray for us? Do you feel it is different to ask them to pray since they are dead in body and your friends are alive in body?"



Personally, as a non-Catholic, I don't pray to the saints. I don't believe they are any dfferent from, say, my sweet and wonderful grandfather who died 10 years ago. A very decent, forgiven by God, man. I don't pray and ask him to pray for me or help me either. I'm not saying people who make it to sainthood weren't wonderful people, I'm just saying God didn't love them more than anyone else.
The Bible tells us not to contact the dead. Saints are people who lived wonderful lives devoted to god and died. They are dead. Jesus rose from the dead. He is not dead. So, yeah, it is different, to me, going to an alive person with a prayer request than to a dead person who died and is in Heaven.

 

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by Divamomto3
I'm in the Archdiocese of Hartford. I have gone to the same Church my whole life and it's very traditional. Then again, we still ring the bells during certain parts of the Mass and I haven't heard that in any other Church but mine since I was a child.

Just surprised that all of us here in CT aren't doing things the same way with the Lord's Prayer. My parish had gotten a little "out there" with our masses. We have a new pastor who is returning to more traditional ways (Bishop Lori is also encouraging this throughout the Diocese). Among the thing that have returned -- bells! I bet many of the children have never heard them before. (We did have a "gong" at the start of the Eucharist which is now gone.)

 

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by LScot
The Bible tells us not to contact the dead.

Catholics are also not to contact the dead to garner information -- like a seance or medium. We do believe that those in Heaven can hear our prayers and intercede for us. Many in Heaven may indeed be saints that have not yet been revealed to us.

 

[LScot]

ooh! You should fix that quote. Kristy didn't say that...

I think it just comes down to being in sainthood or not. And that is fine with me that we will disagree. I believe that we all have sinned and we all receive forgiveness the same way and God loves all people just the same--Christians or not. I do believe someone (like Mother Teresa if she becomes saint) will receive greater rewards in heaven than other believers. I don't think that whether you believe in saints & I don't it separates us from both being Christians(believers that Christ was who He said He was). And in the end, I don't think that type of detail matters to God.

 

[PamOKW]

Oops. I guess the autoquote picked up Kristy's name -- I took it out.

 

[LScot]

Oh and sunni, if you'll go look on the now closed debate board, there is a thread about Catholics over there that is very long. It startedout about Mel Gibson and his dad I think. Anyway, it discusses a lot of the questions you brought up, I believe. I learned a lot on that thread and could take time and process a lot of it. Very interesting and I don't remember it getting too heated. (But I could be wrong!)

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by Divamomto3 We do not say "thine is the kingdom" during the Our Father at our Mass. I don't need a link, I go to Church live and in person every week.

I didn't say that RCs say it as part of the Lord's Prayer, but you do say it shortly afterwards as part of the Doxology

I'm not any either side of the debate because I don't think my religion is "right" and yours is "wrong."

"Which side of the debate your on" doesn't refer to religion; it refers to the debate on whether or not RCs should hold hands during the Lord's Prayer. Some RCs believe it to be a liturgical abuse, others argue against that position. So, how do you view it? I apologise if you took it the wrong way.

 

[Divamomto3]

Originally posted by EltonJohn
I didn't say that RCs say it as part of the Lord's Prayer, but you do say it shortly afterwards as part of the Doxology



"Which side of the debate your on" doesn't refer to religion; it refers to the debate on whether or not RCs should hold hands during the Lord's Prayer. Some RCs believe it to be a liturgical abuse, others argue against that position. So, how do you view it? I apologise if you took it the wrong way.

I thought we were talking about saying "thine is the kingdom..." at the end of the Lord's Prayer like some Churches do.

I don't like holding hands during it, it's not what I'm used to and I don't like change.

EltonJohn...gimme a hug, cuz I don't like debating or arguing.

<<------Diva waving the white flag.

 

[EltonJohn]

Originally posted by Divamomto3 EltonJohn...gimme a hug, cuz I don't like debating or arguing.

<<------Diva waving the white flag.

diane

 

[Deb in IA]

Back to the original question:

I did a search on Church on the Way in Van Nuys. It lists itself as a "Church of the Foursquare Gospel".

Now, if Michael was raised Roman Catholic, he may have crossed himself at the mention of "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" almost as a reflex. The association of the sign of the cross with these words is strongly ingrained in many Catholic Eucharists (and Episcopal, as well).

But his radio show certainly has more of a fundamentalist flavor -- probably the more recent influence of his Foursquare church.

 

[PamOKW]

I just found some info when looking up something else. Jane Wyman is a practicing Catholic active in her Palm Springs church. Maureen Reagan was also a Catholic and had a funeral Mass. My guess is that Mcihael was also raised Catholic but has now joined this other church. He may still believe in all or part of his Catholic background including making the sign of the Cross.

 

[kadaten]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Others can jump in here but the "Our Father" or "Lord's Prayer" is one of the common elements of many established Christian churches -- not just Catholic. There are some slight differences in the wording. The prayer said during Reagan's services used "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors". The Catholic version says "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." The Protestant version also concludes "For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory forever and ever. Amen". Catholics have more recently added this line. We used to end at 'and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen. Now, after Amen we say "For Thine....." as part of the move toward coming together on common ground with other Christian churches. (I think the Episcopal Church also uses "trespasses" in their version and the Lutheran Church may also.)

My Catholic church has always said that part....it's just that the priest says a part in between.....C=congregagant (priest), P=parishioners

The Communion Rite
C. Let us pray with confidence to the Father in the words our Saviour gave us (or similar wording):

P. Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

C. Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day.
In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety
as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

P. For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.

C. Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles: I leave you peace, my peace I give you. Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live for ever and ever.

P. Amen.

C. The peace of the Lord be with you always.

P. And also with you

 

[kadaten]

Originally posted by Divamomto3
We still don't say the "for thine is the kingdom" part yet at my Church. But I noticed in the last few years, people holding hands or just holding their hands up toward God with their heads bowed during the Our Father. This is relatively new for me, as we never did that when I was growing up. (I've been going to the same Church all my life.)

Yeah, there are some churches going the "modern" way these days. My friends go to a church with no kneelers, they hold hands, and do the raise up their hands thing.... And no, we never did any of that growing up. My church is pretty traditional...

 

[kadaten]

Originally posted by LScot
Although, I do remember my friend telling me she would go in there and say, "Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned." And then I suppose she told him her sin(s). So, like, is he supposed to be God when in there? Mind you I'm not saying this as a smart aleck. I'm asking a question to learn. I mean, it was here I learned that Catholics believe the bread and wine are truly the body and blood. I do learn things around here.

Or is the priest strictly a man you are going through to tell God? Nope, I'm confusing myself. You'll just have to tell me about this.

Did anyone cover this? I'm not quoting catechism here...just what I learned in Catholic school and at church. As for the quote, yes, that's how it starts if you use the traditional wording...

"Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. It has been (insert time here) since my last confession. These are my sins....(insert sins here).....For these and all my sins, I am truly sorry." Then the priest can talk to you, does a blessing, give you a penance, and says "go in peace" (or was it go in the name of the Lord? it's been awhile )....

Calling him Father does not make him God. We call all our priests Father (and their last name), unless they have a higher office like Monseignor or Bishop or Cardinal.... Father Aiken and Father Crea were the priests I grew up with.....

The priest is acting as an agent of God....with powers passed down from the original apostles....I think someone covered that aspect a few posts up...

 

[PamOKW]

Kadaten -- Your description of the Lord's Prayer is the way it is done in my church. I thought that's the way all churches did it but several posters have described their masses differently.

 

[DopeyRN]

OK...never one afraid to share my beliefs/opinions, here goes:

Confession...the church does not teach sins are not forgiven unless you go to confession. You can take your sins to Jesus and be forgiven. The act of confession or reconcilliation is a way to receive a grace . I struggle with going to confession...always have. I do believe the grace is present, but it is difficult to do.

Sign of the Cross...a rememberance of God as the father, son and holy spirit. It is viewed as a blessing and also a sign of respect.

Communion...yes we believe it is the true presence of Jesus, not a representation. There have actually been "Eucharistic miracles" through the centuries where the host or wine have bled or clotted into blood as the priest consecrated them. They have been preserved and scientifically tested and have been proven to be human blood, and if I remember correctly, each time the blood type was AB. A Baptist once asked me many, many years ago "Do you really believe that a piece of flat soda cracker becomes Jesus". She acted like this would be an imposssibility. Well, I think anything is possible with Christ.

Mary...we do not worship Mary...we worship only Jesus. Mary is our heavenly mother and I take my fears and concerns to her as I would my earthly mother. I ask her to pray to Jesus along with me. My Lord is the only one who can heal/forgive etc. The same is true for the saints. And we are also discouraged from the occult. Praying or devotion to a particular saint is not seeking the dead.

Sacrifice of the Mass...yes IMO Jesus does suffer every mass. He did this for us. And scripture says "this is my body", "this is my blood", not a representation of my body and blood. IMO, most Catholics do not fully grasp the miracle that happens at every mass. Most "traditional" Catholics seem bored and at mass out of a sense of obligation. They have no clue what they are missing. I have often reflected that if we go to a concert and see our favorite artist we are excited, and if we saw him walking near us we would be falling over ourselves, yet Jesus comes to us and is present at every mass and most miss it. Very sad.

Priests...I believe they are chosen, blessed and have the ability only through Christ to celebrate the mass and consecrate the hosts. They are just men. They sin. They need confession as much as any of us. And many are misguided, misleading, mentally ill, some even evil. They also have free will like everyone. But most are good, giving and caring spiritual leaders.

I feel very lucky. While Sunday mass is traditional at my parish church, I have also found my way to Catholic Charismatics. Full of praise, worship, singing, raising hands, fellowship, bible teachings, yet fully Catholic and approved by the Vatican. The people there are, for the most part, happy to be there. I feel like I have found the best of both worlds.

I have a very long way to go. I do not pray enough, read my bible enough, go to mass enough. I spend too much effort on the computer and watching TV. Things I need to change about myself. But it is hard. Following the world is, IMO, much easier than taking the spiritual road. The spiritual requires much more effort. I hope I have not offended. If you are happy with your religious beliefs, I am happy for you. I will not label you or judge you. I will not call you misguided. And as a Catholic, I wish I could have the same in return. There are many misunderstandings about our church, sometimes taught by leaders of other churches. Which religion we chose will not, again IMO, get us in or keep us out of heaven.

 

[Blue Skies]

I am a Roman Catholic. I have read this thread and I am surprised at how many Catholics (this is not directed to any one poster) know so little about their faith. I am used to there being misconceptions about our faith from people in other religion though.

I wish Catholics would take their faith more seriously. We will all have to answer to God someday as to the choices we made in life – to follow God – our to follow our own desires (making ourselves our own “god”).

Some points that were brought up that I would like to try to assist in clarifying:

Confession to a priest:
(John 20:21-23) Jesus says, “Peace be with you. As my father has sent me, so I send you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit’. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Catholics confess their sins to God through the priest. If God has already forgiven all of man’s sins (when someone is saved), why would the Apostles need to retain certain sins? How would they be able to make this judgment if someone had not told them their sins?

All mortal sins must be confessed within the sacrament of confession. Venial sins can be forgiven during participation in the mass – but it is still desirable to make a good confession – since grace is received from the sacrament. The more frequently you go to confession and make a good examination of conscience, the easier it is to remember your sins and to grow more spiritually. I have heard that the Pope goes to confession weekly.

The reason we are given penances to perform (i.e. say certain prayers, restitution, etc.) can be explained this way. Let’s say sin is like a nail that is hammered into a board. You can remove the nails (contrition and forgiveness), but the hole remains. Our penances are a way to for us to make restitution to make the “hole”, whole again.

Salvation by faith alone:

God has redeemed us, but we have to cooperate by conforming us to Him – have sanctifying grace.

(Matt 10:22) “He who endures to the end will be saved”
(Cor 5:10) Paul tells us, “All of us have a scrutiny to undergo before Christ’s judgment- seat, for each to reap what his mortal life has earned, good or ill, according to his deeds”.
(Rom 11:22) "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off”.
(Matt. 7:21) “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven."
(1 Cor. 4:4)More from Paul: "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me".
(1 Cor. 9:27) More from Paul: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified".

(James 2:24) "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone"
(James 2:15-17) "If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead."
(James 2:21-22) "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works."
(James 2:26) James says: "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."

Prayers to the saints. Mary, etc.:
Why go to Mary? Catholics pray to Mary since she is the highest of God’s creatures. God chose her out of all women to be his mother. She is the closest human to her Son. What better person to ask to take our prayers before the throne of God?
(Luke 1:48-49) “All generations shall call me blessed. The Mighty One has done great things for me!”
At the wedding feast at Cana, they went to Mary first – they could have asked Jesus directly for help, but instead asked for Mary’s intersession. Even though Jesus said it was not his time, he did not refuse his mother’s request!

When we study the lives the saints – we learn from our brothers and sisters in faith – who have made the journey – and have stayed faithful to our Lord to the end – some even to martyrdom. Who better then to ask assistance and guidance? I can think of no more powerful prayer partner!
(Rev. 5:8) John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints"
(Rev. 8:3-4) "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God"
Clement of Alexandria: "In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]" (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).
Cyprian of Carthage: "Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy" (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).

I feel blessed to belong to the church Christ established 2,000 years ago. I am glad that the Holy Spirit has promised to guide it. With so many changes in our culture toward secularism, it is comforting to know that the teachings of Christ do not and will not bend with the current winds of change that are blowing through our society.

Praised be His holy name!

Melissa