Is it okay to put family first? (Response to royal family stuff)

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We only have one life to live. Let them live their lives with their rules and doing what makes them happy.

Let's not forget Harry has been raised as "The Spare". What does that tell a kid? I cannot imagine raising my kids to believe that one is more important than the other but that is what was done essentially. One had his father, one did not. At least in my opinion. Did Charles spend as much time teaching and guiding Harry through his roles and responsibilities?

Harry has always been a free spirit and that came out because he did not have the burden his brother does. He was raised by a woman that suffered all throughout her marriage and was ultimately killed in the end. No happy ending for Diana. Too late. Can we blame the guy for wanting to stop history from repeating itself with his own family? He lost his "only" parent. Harry has no reason to stay, have his family be run down like that, have his wife portrayed like she is. What kind of a man would allow that? Is that who people want Harry to be? "Hey the paps destroyed my mom and ultimately killed her but let's let them have a go at my wife now too..... "

I totally agree that they should be able to get on and live their lives. :thumbsup2

I agree Harry had a traumatic time in many ways. He also had a very privileged time, protected from other kinds of difficulties and problems that many face. I recall someone who knew him saying he wanted a normal life, but it was his unique idea of a "normal" life.

We don't really know how he was brought up as the second born. There surely must have been some very mixed and difficult messages. His father may or may not have given him his own time and attention, though.

I always loved Harry's free spirit and I think his unique position and big heart were a big part of the immediate success of the Invictus Games. I was encouraged by what he could have done for his country. Still, I understood his wanting to leave; the only problem I have is the way he has (they have) gone about it all and are STILL going about it .

You can make a break, but don't, then, keep looking back and disrespecting and criticising what you left - not publicly, anyway - and especially, if you aren't (in hindsight) acknowledging any responsibility yourselves.

They certainly deserve some sympathy, but perhaps not as much as they seem to think/want and not if they truly want to move on. There are millions around the world who have had and are having it much, much worse. Their public offerings (especially what I fear this interview might be like) then become disservice, not service.

For lots of people it's just not coming over well. Wanting a 'new age' version of Kardashian trappings but the Princess Diana respect is something most can see through. If they really want to be "of service" they need to move on from their victimhood.

Maybe, I'll be surprised by what others tell me about the content of this interview. Hope so.
 
Seems like Harry is following in the tradition and footsteps of his great-great Uncle David and his great aunt Margaret of wanting the privileges and trappings of royalty on their own terms, feeling that the rules shouldn't apply to them. Maybe he might want to brush up on his history, because that idea does not seem to have brought much happiness or contentment to either one of his family members. It may also explain why the Queen takes the firm stand she does on the issue. Given her nature and her experience of duty overriding family I expect she may find it regretful, but in the end necessarily cut and dried. I would guess it's more emotional for Charles and William, even thought a lot of the press repeatedly mentions being hurtful to the Queen. I think she's seen this routine before and just stiffens her resolve.
 
No clue :)

But I wonder if it's because she is Princess Michael (not Princess whatever her first name is). So, maybe Kate would have been able to be Princess William, if she wanted?
Correct. Just like a married couple can properly be referred to as Mr. and Mrs. Henry Windsor (hint hint Harry & Me Gain), William and Kate can properly be referred to as Prince and Princess William. So in that sense, the consort of a prince is always a princess, but she doesn't always have her own independent title.
 
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I think the problem is two fold for me. They wanted a private life. But court the media, doing two high profile interviews within weeks. That to my mind is not what I would call a private life.

Also, I wouldn't have a problem with them making a go of their new (private) life if they weren't doing it on the back of their titles.
If they were to prove themselves as talented actors, writers, tv presenters, whatever, that would be different. They could make all the money they wanted then. And they would be earning it.
But as it stands at the moment, they are using their royal titles and connections to gain financial rewards.

I think generally here in the UK the monarchy are fairly well thought of. And there is a lot of interest in the monarchy. Maybe its just because its what us Brits are used to!


Harry was not given the opportunities to hone any craft or skill outside of what he has done Royally. He was born Royal, he benefited as a royal but also suffered as one as well. You have to work with and take advantage of what you have. He didn't ask to be the Spare in the Royal Family but he is so who wouldn't use that as an advantage?
 

You have to work with and take advantage of what you have. He didn't ask to be the Spare in the Royal Family but he is so who wouldn't use that as an advantage?
Someone whose wealth and privileges flow from the British taxpayers isn't supposed to take advantage. Even though they're technically "financially independent" now, their deals & resulting money only come from their royal connections, which are still funded by Britain. One reason why many want them stripped of all royal titles.
 
Harry was not given the opportunities to hone any craft or skill outside of what he has done Royally. He was born Royal, he benefited as a royal but also suffered as one as well. You have to work with and take advantage of what you have. He didn't ask to be the Spare in the Royal Family but he is so who wouldn't use that as an advantage?
What do other people do with their prestigious education and military experience?
 
Harry was not given the opportunities to hone any craft or skill outside of what he has done Royally. He was born Royal, he benefited as a royal but also suffered as one as well. You have to work with and take advantage of what you have. He didn't ask to be the Spare in the Royal Family but he is so who wouldn't use that as an advantage?

Harry "suffered as one as well"? I do not deny that the story of his mother and her death and quite frankly, her whole marriage to Charles was bad. However, there are plenty of people who have overcome the challenges like divorce, parental death, illness, abandonment, poverty and many other less that ideal situations as well. I am not saying that Harry has not had some challenges (some self inflicted - like his current situation) but to consider him to be suffering is a bit strong, at least in my opinion.
 
Seems like Harry is following in the tradition and footsteps of his great-great Uncle David and his great aunt Margaret of wanting the privileges and trappings of royalty on their own terms, feeling that the rules shouldn't apply to them.
Princess Margaret gave up the chance to marry the man she loved in order to stay in the royal family, and she stayed a member and lived in Britain until her death. She was no Princess Anne in regards to her comportment or work ethic, but she was definitely not in the same category as King Edward VIII or the Sussexes, who all chose to leave their roles & country to pursue self-fulfillment.
 
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"Hey the paps destroyed my mom and ultimately killed her but let's let them have a go at my wife now too..... "
That is the confusing thing. In the UK they would be much more protected than they are in the US, and to go into a profession where they need press & paparazzi to earn their living, that doesn't make sense.

As for his titles etc. He should keep what he EARNED and lose what he was GIVEN.
So that's only his medal for his Afghanistan campaign.
And for good measure, let's throw in the two medals to mark the Queen's Golden and Diamond Jubilee.

That's not really something that will get him very far in life when he needs to earn $10 million a year (very conservative guess ;-) ). Good thing he was born a prince...

Harry was not given the opportunities to hone any craft or skill outside of what he has done Royally. He was born Royal, he benefited as a royal but also suffered as one as well. You have to work with and take advantage of what you have. He didn't ask to be the Spare in the Royal Family but he is so who wouldn't use that as an advantage?
Use the hand you are dealt is fine when it's a brain or looks or regular money. It doesn't work like that with royal titles as you are paid by the public. Taking advantage of your title is just not done, not appreciated, tacky etc. But mainly: It disrespects your people, it's ungrateful and showing off.
As often repeated in this thread: Saying you don't want royal life, but you do want the advantages... you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's either / or.

And I do not agree that he was not given opportunities. He decided to get into the military after his gap year. William decided to go to University after his. Both are places where you can learn skills to improve your life and work. The military hasn't prepared him for being and working as a philantropist, except a sense of service to the community, but that doesn't mean he didn't have had the opportunity.

Yikes! If this is true, then yes, that kind of extravagance suggests someone who still really wants to be "royal" in the public eye.
Dress: 3.300GBP ($4.600)
Diana's Cartier bracelet: 17.700GBP ($24.600)
Another Cartier bracelet: 5.000GBP ($7.000)
Necklace: 1.400GBP ($2.000)
Shoes: 535GBP ($750)

Harry "suffered as one as well"? I do not deny that the story of his mother and her death and quite frankly, her whole marriage to Charles was bad. However, there are plenty of people who have overcome the challenges like divorce, parental death, illness, abandonment, poverty and many other less that ideal situations as well. I am not saying that Harry has not had some challenges (some self inflicted - like his current situation) but to consider him suffering is a bit strong, at least in my opinion.
I think that's the saddest part of all. Most people overcome those challenges and can continue with their lives (not to forget them, of course). Harry cannot let go. The first talk he did after Megxit was for J.P Morgan (?), where he said he had 7 years of therapy and still can't deal with the sound of a camera.
Sometimes I get the feeling that instead of living his own life, he tries to live the life his mother might have had. He has to make up for her absence.
 
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Princess Margaret gave up the chance to marry the man she loved in order to stay in the royal family, and she stayed a member and lived in Britain until her death. She was no Princess Anne in regards to her comportment or work ethic, but she was definitely not in the same category as King Edward VIII or the Sussexes, who all chose to leave their roles & country to pursue self-fulfillment.

I think you'll find the point I was making about Princess Margaret in your own words below.

This. The royals who have wanted out have never wanted to be ordinary working people, that's for sure. They've wanted lives of wealth and privilege, unencumbered by the demands of royalty.

Margaret chose wealth and privilege, giving up the "man she loved". She proceeded to behave as she wished, participating in royal duties as she chose.
 
I think you'll find the point I was making about Princess Margaret in your own words below.



Margaret chose wealth and privilege, giving up the "man she loved". She proceeded to behave as she wished, participating in royal duties as she chose.
I don't know, there's nothing more demanding than having to give up the one you love in my book.
 
I feel for the unique situation and life that Harry has ended up with. He didn't ask to be born into the royal family. That isn't his fault, of course. However, after a certain point in life, you kind of have to take your power back and stop with the constant "I'm a victim" stuff. Yes, go to therapy and process through all of that...those are very effective tools. But it only 'sticks' if you do the hard internal work on yourself. EVERYONE deals with adversity in their lives....some people's adversity is a lot more horrific than others. Some of the stuff that some people have gone through would curl your hair and Prince Harry's "stuff" pales in comparison to that. But your average person who's gone through some nasty stuff in their life isn't going to Oprah and James Corden to talk about it on national television, then at the same time complain about how they have no privacy and everyone is being mean to them.
 
What do other people do with their prestigious education and military experience?

Welllll, unless you count where you went to prep school as prestigious, not so much. Harry went to Eton, true enough; it's known for imparting a good grounding in the Classics and invaluable social connections. (His A-levels were a B in Art and a D in Geography; he was a much better achiever on the athletic field than in the classroom.)

He then took a gap year, which was primarly spent doing rather basic construction tasks, such as mending fences and repairing roof tiles. He spent about 3 months each working on a cattle ranch in Australia and at an orphanage in Lesotho, and traveled mostly in the 3rd world for the rest of the time. After that he went to Sandhurst, the UK Officers' Training College, which unlike West Point, is not actually a fully-accredited university; it's not set up for everyone to come out with a minimum of a Bachelor's degree. The training course is 44 months long before commissioning as a second Lieutenant. Harry started out in the military as a Tanker, but quickly switched fields. He was a fire controller for about a year, then went back for helicopter flight training, the more advanced part of which he actually did in Southern California. He's a qualified Apache helicopter pilot, and by all accounts, that's where his natural talents lie; his instructors and COs all said he had a real gift for flying.

Unfortunately, he did not seem to have much of a gift for command. The normal time period for promotion from 2d Lieutenant to Captain in the UK Army, as in the US, is 3 years. It took Harry nearly 6 to reach that rank. (Granted, part of the reason for that may have been the reduced deployment time he had because it was thought that his presence might make his unit a target in a Middle-East war zone.) He left the Army with 10 years in, normally the point at which, having served 6 years as a Captain, you either make Major or leave. Harry left; he retired as a Captain.

Most former military pilots do one of two things with their skills; they either fly for an airline, freight service or corporation as a pilot, or they work for an aircraft manufacturer's R&D division. (Helicopter pilots also may work for private security, news, construction or firefighting companies as well.) In the US the R&D jobs go to folks who also have engineering degrees (which most US service academy graduate pilots do.)

So, would Airbus or Bell or Sikorsky hire Harry as a test pilot? On his qualifications, no. On his connections? Quite possibly, if they thought that getting him on the staff might influence a UK military aircraft contract in their direction. (FWIW, the major US R&D facilities for helicopter development happen to be in Texas, mostly near Dallas, so probably not somewhere his wife would be thrilled to live. She might go for Sikorsky, though; their shop is in Connecticut.)

Actually, one of the best things that I think Harry could do for himself and his future right now is to earn himself a US college degree, preferably in some facet of business. American universities have much more liberal admissions processes than in the UK and are more comfortable for adult learners.
 
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Actually, one of the best things that I think Harry could do for himself and his future right now is to earn himself a US college degree, preferably in some facet of business. American universities have much more liberal admissions processes than in the UK and are more comfortable for adult learners.

Now, that's an idea. :thumbsup2:thumbsup2
 
Most former military pilots do one of two things with their skills; they either fly for an airline, freight service or corporation as a pilot, or they work for an aircraft manufacturer's R&D division. (Helicopter pilots also may work for private security, news, construction or firefighting companies as well.) In the US the R&D jobs go to folks who also have engineering degrees (which most US service academy graduate pilots do.)

So, would Airbus or Bell or Sikorsky hire Harry as a test pilot? On his qualifications, no. On his connections? Quite possibly, if they thought that getting him on the staff might influence a UK military aircraft contract in their direction.
My king in the Netherlands is a pilot for our national airline, still doing a flight or so each month to keep his license and keep skills up to date.
He and Harry could have started a club of working royal pilots 😀
 
We only have one life to live. Let them live their lives with their rules and doing what makes them happy.

Let's not forget Harry has been raised as "The Spare". What does that tell a kid? I cannot imagine raising my kids to believe that one is more important than the other but that is what was done essentially. One had his father, one did not. At least in my opinion. Did Charles spend as much time teaching and guiding Harry through his roles and responsibilities?

Harry has always been a free spirit and that came out because he did not have the burden his brother does. He was raised by a woman that suffered all throughout her marriage and was ultimately killed in the end. No happy ending for Diana. Too late. Can we blame the guy for wanting to stop history from repeating itself with his own family? He lost his "only" parent. Harry has no reason to stay, have his family be run down like that, have his wife portrayed like she is. What kind of a man would allow that? Is that who people want Harry to be? "Hey the paps destroyed my mom and ultimately killed her but let's let them have a go at my wife now too..... "

As for his titles etc. He should keep what he EARNED and lose what he was GIVEN.

The Royal Family IMO is like an ugly antique piece of furniture that nobody wants to throw away but nobody knows what to do with it either IMO.
This is a good point and I’m surprised people are so accepting of it in this day and age.

I also think more thought should be given to points that have been brought up throughout this thread. “You can leave the royal family but you can never really leave the royal family.” That Harry will need to find a way to pay for a multimillion dollar security detail now that he’s on his own every year for the rest of his life. That his mother’s death wouldn’t have happened if she had still been under royal protection. That her death is evidence of what happens when someone tries to leave.

I try to imagine if someone had come to me prior to my children’s births and told me I could choose which careers they would have in adulthood — would I do it? Would I make that choice for someone else? Someone I had not yet even met and whose interests and personalities I didn’t even know? No, of course I wouldn’t. You could argue that I could set my children up to be successful doctors or lawyers, financially stable and highly respected. Yeah, but what if they weren’t happy? What if the job I chose for them made them miserable and they’d be stuck with it for 30 years, unable to pursue what they really wanted to do, not free to make their own decisions regarding what they wanted to do with their lives? (This could make for an interesting spinoff thread: Would you choose your unborn child’s future career? I don’t think many people would be in favor of that idea.) Frankly, I would pass harsh judgment on any parent who would make that choice for their children.

Yet, here we have a situation with the royal family where not just the career is at stake, every facet of a child’s life is being predetermined for them. They are known to the entire world from the first moments of their life. They will have global fame from birth until death whether they wish for it or not. Their schooling, their jobs, their volunteer activities, their personal pursuits, even their romantic partners will be determined, or at least will need to be approved, by the monarchy. They will not have ultimate control over their own lives; that control will lie with someone generations-detached from them. Everything they do will be open to scrutiny from the general public — the same general public that is simultaneously a threat to these people’s lives requiring them to live in a highly protected bubble and making it dangerous for them to leave. The fact that one child will be raised as the chosen golden child while the others fulfill the role of “backup plan” adds another twisted layer to an already dysfunctional situation. Why are we, as a society, still allowing children to be put into these circumstances in the 21st century?

Stories occasionally make the news about these golden calf situations where a child is born with some unique feature or rare disability and suddenly the child has deity status and people are traveling from faraway villages to catch a glimpse of them. I think those of us in “developed” countries tend to look down on these practices as silly or even harmful to the child in question, but how is the royal family anything but a premier example of this kind of thing still taking place in the western world? This child was born special because, well, he just is. Let’s put him up on a pedestal for the rest of his life. :confused:

Strangely, most people are critical of the couple who want to break their children out of this cycle instead of being critical of the couple who are eyes-wide-open choosing to offer up their children’s lives to perpetuate this cycle.

Time will tell. Harry and Meghan may very well choose to put themselves in front of the cameras at every opportunity, they may happily ride the wave of Hollywood fame. Maybe because they have some very expensive security bills to pay ;) or maybe because they just like the attention. Either way, their children will have a better chance of living relatively normal lives now that they’re out of the royal family. George Clooney, Denzel Washington, Hugh Jackman all have uber-celebrity status — do any of you really know much about their kids? Heck, even the younger Kardashian kids probably wouldn’t be recognizable to most and they grew up on a reality show. Hollywood fame doesn’t seem quite as oppressive and all-consuming as royal family fame, it would seem. And, the kids will be able to navigate their own course in life, at least, instead of having it chosen for them.
 
Strangely, most people are critical of the couple who want to break their children out of this cycle instead of being critical of the couple who are eyes-wide-open choosing to offer up their children’s lives to perpetuate this cycle.

I hear what you're saying, but I think there's more to it as well. (Just my POV, of course :thumbsup2)

I - and most I have come across - totally understand them wanting to make the change. The way they are still going about it, is where they are picking up criticism (it's not just down to money).

There are certainly pretty extreme flaws within royal life (it being a pretty extreme life!), but I wouldn't say it's accurate that William and Kate are just going about things in the same old ways. They have chosen to stay, but are making their own decisions, too. William's kids aren't having the same experience he and Harry did.
 
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