Is it Juan-uary yet? Bachelor Juan Pablo dish - NO SPOILERS please!!!

[Disneylover99]

Wow! I miss reading the thread for 24 hours and all THIS is what I miss?




Okay, when I read the first post, that said Juan Pablo said the word "pervert," I was shocked. And when I went to the website to listen for him say it, I was still shocked when the word came out.

But, I DID listen to the whole clip. And frankly, he did point out someone he was there with him, Peter(?), and he said he had the utmost respect for him and for other gays.

He then said his beliefs, which where he comes from, raised in Venezuela, since the age of 2, that for HIM: marriage is a husband & wife, meaning a man and a woman. He also said he thought a "Bachelor" show of two men would be even in America, too [my words & interpretation of what he said (not necessarily what I believe myself,] racy and extreme. I believe that is what he meant by the show being "pervert."

I don't agree with Juan Pablo's beliefs on gays and homosexuality or their ability to raise wonderful kids. However, I DO believe he has a right to his differing opinions. And he has a right to say them without being vilified or crucified for his beliefs. There are unfortunately many others who believe the same as him. That there are many that fall between Phil Robertson & him.

I think we cross a really thin line to intolerance and judgement ourselves when we do not allow others to believe or openly say what they believe - as long as it is not promoting stringing up people to poles and beating them, burning them on crosses, or dragging them by chains behind a pick-up truck. Neither Phil Robertson or Juan Pablo said anything remotely like that. Yet, they DO come from cultures which have vastly different beliefs then what I have. And I believe in their rights to have their cultures and beliefs, whether it is bible thumpers or people from different countries. It's called cultural diversity and tolerance.


As pro-gay as Disney/ABC is, do (general) you really think that a gay "Bachelor" show will be airing anytime soon on ABC?

I don't. They haven't even aired a black Bachelor, because they don't think the ratings will be there. Then there is the stigma of the idea that a black Bachelor with 25 beautiful women may give the impression of a pimp with a bunch of hookers. (I read that somewhere - NOT my belief.) But, if they are so worried about that, then, NO, ABC will not be having a gay "Bachelor" show any time soon. Certainly, not before a black Bachelor.

It might show on Bravo, HBO or some other cable network. ABC still errs on the side of more mainstream, middle-American values. There are still only 17 states that have legalized same-sex marriage. That means 33 states have not adopted the ideas or beliefs. In those states, for many, it may be more "perverse" for them to believe it, or to watch a couple who is gay. (Again not MY beliefs - don't go after me.)

And I think "perverse" was the word Juan Pablo was looking for. Perverse in the vein of too racy and extreme for middle America - the 33 middle America states that have not legalized gay marriage. Heck, The Bachelor, with one guy hound-dogging 25 women is kind of extreme and out there. He only gets away with banging the 2-3 women on the overnight dates near the end, because the show thinly uses the excuse the Bachelor's looking for a wife. 97% of these couples do NOT end up in marriage. Yet, every one of them did have sex with their chosen partners (and possibly the other finalist.)



Now, the ironic thing that I was going to post before all of this was that I was watching Access Hollywood last week. One of the hosts, Billy Bush, after watching the 1st episode, said he didn't think Juan Pablo has any chemistry with ANY of the girls. He said he seemed like they were all BFFs. That in fact, Billy wondered if Juan Pablo was even into women at ALL.

Maybe Juan Pablo WILL turn out to be the first gay Bachelor after all! Maybe he was doth protesting too much, in order to stay in the closet?

Maybe for the finale, he comes out and says he's in love with the guy Des really loved, the one who left the show. The one most of us we thought was a closet gay.

Now THAT would be "the most unexpected Bachelor EVER!"

Excellent post!

 

[MAGICFOR2]

Thank you Imzadi for your well thought out comments. When the day comes (probably in our lifetime) that we are not allowed to express an opinion different than the mainstream, or different than the "state" thinks we should - we will be living out George Orwell's book 1984 under the rule of "Big Brother." We will lose the freedom that some have fought and died to preserve.

I am going to respectfully ask that this discussion stays friendly and light hearted, or the purpose of our thread will be finished.

 

[Robinrs]

I don't. They haven't even aired a black Bachelor, because they don't think the ratings will be there. Then there is the stigma of the idea that a black Bachelor with 25 beautiful women may give the impression of a pimp with a bunch of hookers. (I read that somewhere - NOT my belief.) But, if they are so worried about that, then, NO, ABC will not be having a gay "Bachelor" show any time soon. Certainly, not before a black Bachelor.

This literally ...makes...me ....sick.

I agree with your point that everyone has the right to their opinions. But what JP should've been told that everything he does, says and thinks was property of the Bachelor brand. I'm sure you've seen the contracts that you have to sign to be on a TV show, they're PAGES long full of more legal rigmarole that you can imagine. His words reflect the brand and affect the bottom line.

Duck Dynasty has lost 1/3 of their ratings, that's a major loss in revenue. I don't care if JP likes shooting pigs for a pastime, he is supposed to be trained NOT to promote ANYTHING that might upset advertisers and viewers, that's his ONLY purpose.

The producers WISH and HOPE that most viewers see it the way you do but realistically that's not the way of the world. Most people see things from one way of the other and the middle of the road types stay pretty much quiet about it. The mob, on the other hand, is lit up and ready to scream... social media is their outlet, it's pretty hard to read actually.

We'll see how this rolls out soon, I really hope he hasn't shot himself in the foot but we'll see.

 

[emer95]

Thank you Imzadi for your well thought out comments. When the day comes (probably in our lifetime) that we are not allowed to express an opinion different than the mainstream, or different than the "state" thinks we should - we will be living out George Orwell's book 1984 under the rule of "Big Brother." We will lose the freedom that some have fought and died to preserve.

I am going to respectfully ask that this discussion stays friendly and light hearted, or the purpose of our thread will be finished.

Two thumbs up!! Also, very well said, Imzadi.

 

[robinb]

Thank you Imzadi for your well thought out comments. When the day comes (probably in our lifetime) that we are not allowed to express an opinion different than the mainstream, or different than the "state" thinks we should - we will be living out George Orwell's book 1984 under the rule of "Big Brother." We will lose the freedom that some have fought and died to preserve.

I am going to respectfully ask that this discussion stays friendly and light hearted, or the purpose of our thread will be finished.

Only after you got your "Big Brother" and "George Orwell" digs in? I think not .

You and everyone else is allowed the freedom to express and and all opinions all you want. Freedom of speech is in the constitution. When those opinions are bigoted I and others are allowed to call you out on them. That is also my first amendment right. If you are afraid to say something that "express(es) an opinion different than the mainstream" and you don't want to be called out on it then maybe you should re-think saying something in the first place .

FWIW, I am beyond joyful that folks like you think that gay civil rights is "mainstream" .

 

[DVCJones]

Wow! I miss reading the thread for 24 hours and all THIS is what I miss? Okay, when I read the first post, that said Juan Pablo said the word "pervert," I was shocked. And when I went to the website to listen for him say it, I was still shocked when the word came out. But, I DID listen to the whole clip. And frankly, he did point out someone he was there with him, Peter(?), and he said he had the utmost respect for him and for other gays. He then said his beliefs, which where he comes from, raised in Venezuela, since the age of 2, that for HIM: marriage is a husband & wife, meaning a man and a woman. He also said he thought a "Bachelor" show of two men would be even in America, too [my words & interpretation of what he said (not necessarily what I believe myself,] racy and extreme. I believe that is what he meant by the show being "pervert." I don't agree with Juan Pablo's beliefs on gays and homosexuality or their ability to raise wonderful kids. However, I DO believe he has a right to his differing opinions. And he has a right to say them without being vilified or crucified for his beliefs. There are unfortunately many others who believe the same as him. That there are many that fall between Phil Robertson & him. I think we cross a really thin line to intolerance and judgement ourselves when we do not allow others to believe or openly say what they believe - as long as it is not promoting stringing up people to poles and beating them, burning them on crosses, or dragging them by chains behind a pick-up truck. Neither Phil Robertson or Juan Pablo said anything remotely like that. Yet, they DO come from cultures which have vastly different beliefs then what I have. And I believe in their rights to have their cultures and beliefs, whether it is bible thumpers or people from different countries. It's called cultural diversity and tolerance. As pro-gay as Disney/ABC is, do (general) you really think that a gay "Bachelor" show will be airing anytime soon on ABC? I don't. They haven't even aired a black Bachelor, because they don't think the ratings will be there. Then there is the stigma of the idea that a black Bachelor with 25 beautiful women may give the impression of a pimp with a bunch of hookers. (I read that somewhere - NOT my belief.) But, if they are so worried about that, then, NO, ABC will not be having a gay "Bachelor" show any time soon. Certainly, not before a black Bachelor. It might show on Bravo, HBO or some other cable network. ABC still errs on the side of more mainstream, middle-American values. There are still only 17 states that have legalized same-sex marriage. That means 33 states have not adopted the ideas or beliefs. In those states, for many, it may be more "perverse" for them to believe it, or to watch a couple who is gay. (Again not MY beliefs - don't go after me.) And I think "perverse" was the word Juan Pablo was looking for. Perverse in the vein of too racy and extreme for middle America - the 33 middle America states that have not legalized gay marriage. Heck, The Bachelor, with one guy hound-dogging 25 women is kind of extreme and out there. He only gets away with banging the 2-3 women on the overnight dates near the end, because the show thinly uses the excuse the Bachelor's looking for a wife. 97% of these couples do NOT end up in marriage. Yet, every one of them did have sex with their chosen partners (and possibly the other finalist.) Now, the ironic thing that I was going to post before all of this was that I was watching Access Hollywood last week. One of the hosts, Billy Bush, after watching the 1st episode, said he didn't think Juan Pablo has any chemistry with ANY of the girls. He said he seemed like they were all BFFs. That in fact, Billy wondered if Juan Pablo was even into women at ALL. Maybe Juan Pablo WILL turn out to be the first gay Bachelor after all! Maybe he was doth protesting too much, in order to stay in the closet? Maybe for the finale, he comes out and says he's in love with the guy Des really loved, the one who left the show. The one most of us we thought was a closet gay. Now THAT would be "the most unexpected Bachelor EVER!"

Excellent post!!!!

 

[Robinrs]

Only after you got your "Big Brother" and "George Orwell" digs in? I think not .

You and everyone else is allowed the freedom to express and and all opinions all you want. Freedom of speech is in the constitution. When those opinions are bigoted I and others are allowed to call you out on them. That is also my first amendment right. If you are afraid to say something that "express(es) an opinion different than the mainstream" and you don't want to be called out on it then maybe you should re-think saying something in the first place .

FWIW, I am beyond joyful that folks like you think that gay civil rights is "mainstream" .

EXCELLENT POST!

 

[kimmar067]

....has this thread taken a wrong turn into Scaryville?

 

[Robinrs]

....has this thread taken a wrong turn into Scaryville?

I think JP put Scaryville on the GPS!

ABC and NBC made this story natl news this morning, ABC calling his words "careless, thoughtless and insensitive".

 

[kimmar067]

I think JP put Scaryville on the GPS!

ABC and NBC made this story natl news this morning, ABC calling his words "careless, thoughtless and insensitive".

....I hadn't back-read yet, so I didn't know what was going on...

 

[lisaviolet]

I think we cross a really thin line to intolerance and judgement ourselves when we do not allow others to believe or openly say what they believe - as
:

I absolutely disagree with this line, Imzadi. Absolutely, and more and more as I age. AND he was allowed to say it and believe what he believes. He said it. And many are allowed to question it and say something back.

I have great understanding that people come from where they come from and are raised a certain way and believe certain things. I certainly don't need to get in an uproar with stating one's thoughts. But pervert and homosexuality is not okay with me - no matter where it comes from. And it never will be. No matter what he meant or not. (Yes, I do realize you said the same - not directed at you Imzadi)

And having gay friends/coworkers/clients is right there with people saying I have black friends/coworkers etc. Sometimes racist and homophobic people use this to justify and it just doesn't wash with me. Now I have a ton of people I adore that think differently than me in life and that's wonderful and absolutely okay. But I will not keep my mouth shut when it pushes into ignorant, WILL NOT, and either would they, I would hope.

It reminds me of a wonderful scene in Six Feet Under, that all these years later still sits with me. David an openly gay character was having a discussion with Federico, a Catholic hispanic character (stating because Juan Pablo's background made me think of it).

Federico worked intimately with David and had affection for him as a person. And vice versa. But they got into it.

This is from memory :

First, he made a statement almost like there were not homosexuals in his country. And then he went to "well there are but they are stay with their wives and children and don't *put it out there*, they are behind the scenes and don't throw it around and come home to their families - gays in my country are MEN.

They are MEN.

And openly gay David replied with a fierceness that didn't often infiltrate his personality ----- "I AM a MAN!".

Great scene.

Federico can have his thoughts. But they don't have to sit there not questioned, that would not serve either David OR Federico. Or addressed either. That would be SCARY to me. That's my scary.

As I get older, and I am loving/compassionate and understanding, I've realized sometimes we can be that way too much at the detriment of others - trying to understand, I mean.

_________________________________________________

As for this thread. I've never watched a season of the Bachelor. But you guys are so much fun that I actually taped the first two episodes and just finished to either have fun with you or sit in the background and read and smile. Broadly.

You guys are a lot of fun.

 

[iheartdisney]

Back on topic...
I was kinda bummed they didn't show Holly and Blake in the "look who is still together" roundup. They were so cute on Bachelor Pad.

Oh, and Micheal Stagliano's twin looks every bit as douchey as he is.

 

[MAGICFOR2]

Back on topic...
I was kinda bummed they didn't show Holly and Blake in the "look who is still together" roundup. They were so cute on Bachelor Pad.

Oh, and Micheal Stagliano's twin looks every bit as douchey as he is.

Seemed like he was try "be" his brother - it was kind of creepy.

 

[Uncle Remus]

This is all over Facebook!

Pretty much says it all.

 

[rmom50]

This is my first season of the Bachelor. I came in to it purely to make fun - there, I've said it. Since there was a girl from my little town, our local newspaper did another GO ROCKFORD! story. Kylie's departure was so spectacular and hilarious to me, that I'm sticking with this thing until the end... it just gets more ridiculous. This site has made it even more fun ~ I was so happy that you were all seeing the humor in it, and yet making well educated comments. None of us expected to learn anything from the show, but maybe we have despite ourselves. I'm going down with this ship (as a gay sympathizer).

 

[Elinor Dashwood]

OMG, Cassandra is lamenting the fact that she hasn't been on a date since she was "like 18". So, what, I guess it's been 2 long years for her then.....

 

[Imzadi]

Now I have a ton of people I adore that think differently than me in life and that's wonderful and absolutely okay.

Perhaps you misunderstand me. This is all I am saying, what I bolded from you above. I never said to be silent. I never said not to discuss or debate (soundly and with passion.)

Hopefully, they will respect you enough back to at least LISTEN to your differing beliefs you as you listen to them. That BOTH of you will be allowed to have your own separate beliefs.

BUT, there is a big difference is discussing and debating with respect for the other person and respecting his right to his beliefs vs. vilifying and crucifying the person and obliterating them. That seems to be the big trend in social media and the Internet as people hide behind their keyboards.


We have two museums here in L.A. & NYC called the Museum of TOLERANCE. A word I said in my previous post. They are about the Jewish Holocaust. When I first heard about them being built, I asked, "Why are they called museums of tolerance and not about acceptance. Shouldn't they be teaching acceptance?

I'll never forget what was said to me: "Acceptance would be the ideal, and in an ideal world that would happen. But in this world, at the very least, and sometimes the very most, all we can hope for is for TOLERANCE of each other.

tol·er·ate
/ˈtäləˌrāt/
verb
tolerate
1.
allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.
"a regime unwilling to tolerate dissent" [what an apropos example]

tol·er·ance
ˈtäl(ə)rəns/
noun
noun: tolerance
1.
the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with.


Kind of interesting and apropos that this discussion comes up on Martin Luther King Day.

But I will not keep my mouth shut when it pushes into ignorant,

That statement smacks of superiority and judgement. Who are YOU to say you are superior an smarter? Playing Devil's advocate here, I'll bet they think the same thing of you and your beliefs. That YOU are the ignorant one. Do you feel they have a right to try to get you to get rid of your beliefs because YOU are the wrong and ignorant one?

You can try to push your beliefs on them. But, you'd be just as wrong s them pushing and trying to obliterate your beliefs or crucify you for having them.


And as for aging, sometimes, that just makes people older, not necessarily wiser.

 

[Elinor Dashwood]

I'm sorry but Cassandra seems soooo young! The giggling, the perfectly smooth skin because she's still only 21.

 

[Imzadi]

This is my first season of the Bachelor. I came in to it purely to make fun - there, I've said it. Since there was a girl from my little town, our local newspaper did another GO ROCKFORD! story. Kylie's departure was so spectacular and hilarious to me, that I'm sticking with this thing until the end... it just gets more ridiculous. This site has made it even more fun ~ I was so happy that you were all seeing the humor in it, and yet making well educated comments. None of us expected to learn anything from the show, but maybe we have despite ourselves. I'm going down with this ship (as a gay sympathizer).

Welcome! This thread is normally very fun. we just got temporarily derailed into seriousness by Juan Pablo's comment. The show can certainly say now this is the most unexpected Bachelor & show.

 

[rmom50]

And Renee (is that mother realtor?) is being the MOM AGAIN to the girl whose mother just died of melanoma. Renee does seem the most mature.

I want a car/boat.