Is Group Punishment Effective?

[sha_lyn]

I had a teacher who was big on punishing the entire class, because of one or two jerks. A bunch of us finally got to the point where we figured we were going to get punished whether we did anything wrong or not, so we would get as rowdy as the kids who were always getting the entire class in trouble. It backfired terribly on that teacher who instead of getting to the root of the problem, took the easy way out. I still harbor resentment for that rotten old witch.

Yep, what she said.

I was in 7&8 grade with these 2 boys, Danny and Gary (LOL just realized that the 2 trouble makers share names with 2 of my BsIL).
They would often act up especially in Mrs Fullers class. Mrs Fuller was really big on the group punishment thing. It got to where our entire class didn't care what they did because we knew that if Danny and/or Gary acted up we would all be in trouble. She must have been sick a lot one of those yrs, because it seems like we had a substitute a lot. My mom worked as a substitute and subbed for Mrs Fuller a few times. My mom was the only sub that would handle the situation herself with the 2 trouble makers instead of reporting back to Mr Fuller. The class (as a whole, excluding the 2 trouble makers) only behaved for my mom, because everyone knew that she wouldn't punish the entire class.

To this day I will not speak to Mrs Fuller if I see her and all the old feelings of resentment come to the surface when I do see her.

 

[RNMOM]

I have even been punished in the workplace because of actions by others. It stinks when everyone has to suffer because of the abuses of one or two people. Especially when you are supposed to be "professionals".

 

[freckles and boo]

It depends on the situation. If you have a band concert and the a band behaves poorly, punishing the entire band (a team) is an effective way to teach the kids a lesson.

I know when i coach hockey if someone messes up a drill/talks back/whatever, the whole team does manmakers. We operate as a team so they need to learn their behavior is going to affect others.

On the other hand, if a small group of kids is behaving poorly in the classroom, I think it's better to punish just the offending kids.

That makes sense to me because the kids all, in theory, made a choice to be part of a team and they do have to learn to rely on one another.

In a classroom situation, though, it seems like lazy discipline.

 

[basas]

That makes sense to me because the kids all, in theory, made a choice to be part of a team and they do have to learn to rely on one another.

In a classroom situation, though, it seems like lazy discipline.

I agree. Unless the entire class is misbehaving (treating a sub poorly or something). Then I could see canceling an activity or something. For the most part though, the people who commit the crime should be the ones to serve the time.

 

[Sinderelli]

I never, ever punish my whole class due to the actions of a few. It doesn't work- but rewarding the class as a whole does. I teach 1st grade- not sure if this would work in older grades- but I keep a music box on my desk. I wind it up every morning, and whenever the class gets noisy I open the box. At the end of the day, if there is still music left, the class gets one letter towards a mutually agreed upon reward (movie & popcorn day, extra recess, slippers day, etc.)

This works MUCH better than negative reinforcement & it takes little to no effort on my part.

 

[Becky2005]

Wow, I can't believe the county allowed the school to operate w/o bathroom facilities available. Around here if there is a problem with a water pipe or something and a school doesn't have running water, the kids go home due to unsanitary conditions.

The kids could use the bathroom but instead of it being open before school started, during passing periods, after school, etc... they had to wait until class and ask to sign a key out and only X amount of kids could be out at the same time. I have forgotten exactly how it was done but basically it wasn't completely non access, just restricted access. I want to say I think they had to sign the time they left the classroom & the time they returned also.

It seemed like way more of a hassle for everyone and apparently since it went I think the entire year on that system, I don't think it actually got the culprits named & was more work for the teachers, since they would now have to have kids getting up & leaving to use the restroom a LOT more than the normal.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Group punishment is only effective if the group is wrong.

If 1 or 2 kids are acting up they need to be singled out and dealt with otherwise you are an ineffective leader.

Now I have used "group techniques" to lay pressure on them to motivate but not to punish.

 

[NotAmused]

As a good student, I HATED the trouble makers who would get the whole class in trouble. It's just not fair because some kids just don't care if they get in trouble, even if you throw in peer pressure. They just don't care and enjoy the attention. Throughout my school years, I had to write wayyy too many essays about why this or that is wrong or write "i will not..." a million times because of other students. I still remember the names of those kids who made everyone get in trouble. If I ever run into them again...

I am 1 year away from graduating and becoming a teacher and I will never use group punishment. It's just not fair cause some kids just don't care.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

I don't believe punishment is effective or appropriate for individuals, so I definitely wouldn't support it en masse.

 

[TJ's Mom]

First of all, I do not believe group punishment is the best choice. I don't know if I would call it group punishment , but I did have a time when the one class had more homework than my other classes because of one child. As I was teaching, I had one child who wanted to put on a show and keep making comments about the lesson. Most of the other kids were laughing and egging him on. After about the third time, I just gave up trying to stop them and incoporated it into my lesson. When the class was almost over, I explained their processing assignment. I also explained that the rest of my classes finished it in class but since they were so into the lesson, we did not make it that far. But since they were so into it, I was sure that they wouldn't mind finishing it tonight. The next day when the same kid started the same thing, the rest of the class ignored him. He soon stopped. That being said, before anyone says he was shunned, I would say he was more of the bully than the bullied.

 

[MzDiz]

When my husband was in high school, he got into a discussion with one of his teachers. She thought the conversation would benefit the class as a whole since it was about the subject matter they were studying and had the class stay after for a few minutes.
YEARS later, one of the classmates ran into my husband at a bar. He said "hey, you're so-and-so, this is for that one day in class" and punched him in the stomach.
Imagine what he would have done to him if he caused the class to be detained longer than five minutes.
People are crazy.

 

[shortbun]

I can't vote. I don't understand the choices.
Consequences for the offenders is the best way to go. Unfortunately, sometimes it's tough to figure out just who that is.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

I don't believe punishment is effective or appropriate for individuals, so I definitely wouldn't support it en masse.

Really? Wow. That's an interesting perspective. So murders, rapists, and kidnappers, etc. should just be allowed to roam free with no threat of prison/punishment?

Wow. You don't believe in punishment at all? Please tell me I misunderstood your post.

 

[JunieJay]

My friend and co-worker was just tellng me the other day of something that happened to her son, who just graduated from Marine boot camp. One of the guys got mouthy to the drill instructor so the drill instructor made her son, who had nothing to do with this kid other than he happened to be standing near him, crawl through a hole of red ants. Thia apparently went on for several weeks, with various other kids paying the price for this mouthy kid. Finally the kid was whisked away and not heard from again. The rest of the group was so glad to see him go, as you can imagine.

I guess the purpose was to demonstrate the importance of teamwork, and I guess in a military setting it might work (although I honestly found the whole story quite horrifying....if that were me, I'd have gone AWOL after crawling through a hole full of red ants!). The only thing learned from that situation was the kid who was mouthing off could not be trusted to rely on in a teamwork situation, so I guess they do have to weed out those early on.

I never cared for it in the classroom. There was always one kid who would ruin it for the others. Not only do I think its unfair to the kids who aren't out of line, I think its unfair to the culprit, as well. I agree with DISUnc, I think it sets up kids for bullying and ridicule.

 

[barkley]

depends on the situation.

if it's contributed to or facilitated by the class (egging on, encouraging, laughing and disrupting class) then all parties are diserving of the appropriate consequences. if it's an individual or individuals it's simply shifting the responsibility of addressing the situation/behaviour to persons not in the position of being in authority or responsibility for another's behaviour.

what is the goal? to inflict undeserved punishment on a group in the hope that they will in turn either as a group or individuals react in such a way that the actual 'guilty party' will change their behaviour? i have to suspect that few if any of the innocents would take the track of having a reasonable discussion with the resp. party/parties-and likely resort to tactics of correcting the behaviour in a manner that is not nesc. appropriate (bullying, harrassment, threats). i also think it sends a message to the offenders that the authority figure has resigned themselves to being unable to deal with the issue independantly and has to resort to to bringing in a 'gang' mentality.

i was forced by my former employer to use 'group punishment' for certain issues where an individual or individuals were the only guilty parties-it did nothing but breed resentment and hostility among the rest of my staff (towards me and the guilty parties) and did nothing to correct the behaviours (it did'nt make much of a difference to them if everyone lost out on something, had to do more-much bigger difference if only they did.

 

[Mermaid02]

I hate it when teachers do this. I have taught my children that the ONLY person you have control over is YOURSELF. My child can't make Johnny sit still in his seat- that's not up to my child. It's a bad bad bad thing and frankly, I think it's the lazy way out for the teacher.

 

[PollyannaMom]

"unfortunately effective, but extremely unfair"

(didn't really match either choice) - The other kids will probably punish the offender far better then the teacher could, but I think it sends an awful message to the good kids that they are powerless to control the course of their own day by behaving.

 

[Laura]

I think group punishment is effective when the teacher can't find out who did X. Makes it easy to tattle!

 

[barkley]

I think group punishment is effective when the teacher can't find out who did X. Makes it easy to tattle!

one of my teachers tried this method, kept us all after school because she did'nt know who did something. discreetly asked each of us privatly who did it, did'nt confront the person until everyone in the class (including that person who of course had lied when asked) had been talked to. for the rest of that year the girl who was the guilty party made it her life's mission to figure out who had named her (DUH-all of us, we all saw her-teacher's back was turned ). was ROTTEN and victimized everyone. when that did'nt produce the 'who' she turned to doing stuff in class because teacher had the policy of 'group punishment' so she figured in the grand scheme of things not only was the person getting initialy punished, but 'the group' would come after them as well.

yeah, that was an effective learning experience

 

[Disney Ella]

In my experience, the troublemakers never cared if they got in trouble or if people were angry with them. If the whole class got in trouble with them then at least they had company.

The worst part of this whole practice now that I'm an adult is the idiot bosses who think it's a good idea to punish everyone for the actions of one or two employees. Just because Mark and Diane been abusing some privilege does not mean the rest of us should have to pay. Take the privilege away from only the abusers at work and punish only the kids at school who misbehave. They are the ones causing the problems and they are the only ones who should be held accountable.