Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[rteetz]

Do you think if Disney was worried about those places cutting into their business that they would allow a Four Seasons on property? Seriously.

Well it's funny that they have to convert existing rooms at deluxe resorts to DVC to make occupancy rates better. WL is doing that now, poly just got done, BC is next. Resort occupancies are high at moderates and values but they aren't that high at the deluxes.

 

[mvk]

Well it's funny that they have to convert existing rooms at deluxe resorts to DVC to make occupancy rates better. WL is doing that now, poly just got done, BC is next. Resort occupancies are high at moderates and values but they aren't that high at the deluxes.

Do you think they'd rather have rooms for rent or have customers locked in for 40+ years in a DVC contract?

It's not that they "have to convert" rooms as much as they want to convert rooms. The resort is at 90% occupancy and they are selling their new DVC inventory at a good clip.

 

[rteetz]

Do you think they'd rather have rooms for rent or have customers locked in for 40+ years in a DVC contract?

It's not that they "have to convert" rooms as much as they want to convert rooms. The resort is at 90% occupancy and they are selling their new DVC inventory at a good clip.

Resort occupancy is an average 90% across all resorts. Resorts like WL and BC are not at 90 hence why conversion is coming. Converting those rooms takes them out of the occupancy rates because they are now DVC rooms.

 

[Dfan79]

Disney is definitely not screwed, but they need to make a big announcement next month or risk being overshadowed. Because Uni may eventually smarten up and widen their demographics to families and children.

 

[mvk]

Resort occupancy is an average 90% across all resorts. Resorts like WL and BC are not at 90 hence why conversion is coming. Converting those rooms takes them out of the occupancy rates because they are now DVC rooms.

Conversion is coming because DVC makes a lot more money than charging by the night. It also locks in customers for 40+ years.

Look, I know you are looking to fit in with a few of the other people here and have adopted lockedoutlogic's train of thought on everything, but if you really believe they would allow the Four Seasons on property if they were worried about losing customers to them, and if you really believe they are only converting to DVC because they can't rent these rooms on a night-to-night/weekly basis, then I don't know what to tell you. It's just a silly conclusion you are trying to draw.

 

[mvk]

Disney is definitely not screwed, but they need to make a big announcement next month or risk being overshadowed. Because Uni may eventually smarten up and widen their demographics to families and children.

Universal is such a competitor that they are offering their deluxe resort for less than an All Star Resort because their occupancy is so low.

 

[rteetz]

Conversion is coming because DVC makes a lot more money than charging by the night. It also locks in customers for 40+ years.

Look, I know you are looking to fit in with a few of the other people here and have adopted lockedoutlogic's train of thought on everything, but if you really believe they would allow the Four Seasons on property if they were worried about losing customers to them, and if you really believe they are only converting to DVC because they can't rent these rooms on a night-to-night/weekly basis, then I don't know what to tell you. It's just a silly conclusion you are trying to draw.

I have not adapted lockedoutlogics train of thought on everything. I was using the four seasons as a comparison on prices and amenities not that they are worried about it. Like you said they wouldn't have allowed it on property if they were worried. Yes DVC locks those people in, but those locked in people because they come more often than the average guests means they usually spend less. DVC rooms have kitchens so people will cook instead of going out to the Disney restaurants, they won't spend as much time in the gift shops buying those 2015 t shirts. Disney still wants those once in a life timers or every few year type people because they spend the most money. People who go more often tend to spend less.

 

[Dfan79]

Universal is such a competitor that they are offering their deluxe resort for less than an All Star Resort because their occupancy is so low.

You can see it two ways.

Your way is plausible and it could very well be true. But they could also be doing to it just to make more money in other areas. They probably think they can make it back in their parks and restaurants. This also takes away customers from Disney.

 

[mvk]

I have not adapted lockedoutlogics train of thought on everything. I was using the four seasons as a comparison on prices and amenities not that they are worried about it. Like you said they wouldn't have allowed it on property if they were worried. Yes DVC locks those people in, but those locked in people because they come more often than the average guests means they usually spend less. DVC rooms have kitchens so people will cook instead of going out to the Disney restaurants, they won't spend as much time in the gift shops buying those 2015 t shirts. Disney still wants those once in a life timers or every few year type people because they spend the most money. People who go more often tend to spend less.

That seems like anecdotal evidence. I understand those who go two or three times per year aren't going to spend quite as much, but they do tend to be the people that go to hard ticket/special events and will spend more money on dining at the better restaurants. They may skip a meal at a QS but make up for it by eating at the better table service spots.

Most DVC members aren't going back to their rooms for PB&J at lunch and meatloaf for dinner. Don't buy into that, kid.

 

[mvk]

You can see it two ways.

Your way is plausible and it could very well be true. But they could also be doing to it just to make more money in other areas. They probably think they can make it back in their parks and restaurants and also take away customers from Disney.

If they were slightly discounted room, sure. But to charge less than All Star Resort prices? No, it's an occupancy issue. If the demand was there, they wouldn't drop the price $300 to make maybe $50 more inside the park.

 

[pilferk]

If they were slightly discounted room, sure. But to charge less than All Star Resort prices? No, it's an occupancy issue. If the demand was there, they wouldn't drop the price $300 to make maybe $50 more inside the park.

So, for Uni...dropping the prices is an occupancy issue, not a promotional one, to grab more profits from guests in the parks, or spur repeat visits.

But for Disney, completely taking rooms out of circulation, permanently, in already built out facilities is a profit driven motive to spur repeat visitors and make more money in the parks, NOT an occupancy issue.

I get that about right?

 

[rteetz]

That seems like anecdotal evidence. I understand those who go two or three times per year aren't going to spend quite as much, but they do tend to be the people that go to hard ticket/special events and will spend more money on dining at the better restaurants. They may skip a meal at a QS but make up for it by eating at the better table service spots.

Most DVC members aren't going back to their rooms for PB&J at lunch and meatloaf for dinner. Don't buy into that, kid.

I didn't say most were cooking in their rooms but some do. As someone who goes more often than others but no more than once a year we only have certain times we can go and we have never done a hard ticket event or a festival at Epcot. A good amount people who do go frequently can only go during certain times, like teachers and kids school or sports schedules. As for the original topic Disney world is not screwed but they aren't perfect.

 

[mvk]

So, for Uni...dropping the prices is an occupancy issue, not a promotional one, to grab more profits from guests in the parks, or spur repeat visits.

But for Disney, completely taking rooms out of circulation, permanently, in already built out facilities is a profit driven motive to spur repeat visitors and make more money in the parks, NOT an occupancy issue.

I get that about right?

I may be missing something, but Universal isn't taking those rooms out of inventory to sell them and lock customers in for 40+ years. If you think the two are remotely close to each other, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[pilferk]

I didn't say most were cooking in their rooms but some do. As someone who goes more often than others but no more than once a year we only have certain times we can go and we have never done a hard ticket event or a festival at Epcot. A good amount people who do go frequently can only go during certain times, like teachers and kids school or sports schedules. As for the original topic Disney world is not screwed but they aren't perfect.

Just some anecdotal support:

We are DVC members. We typically stay in a 1 or 2 BR (there's at least 5 of us).

Over a 10 day stay, we do 8 breakfasts in our room, 1 lunch. We also buy/bring our own water, snacks, COFFEE, etc. We're not buying any of that stuff from Disney.

I think, given conversations with other folks, there are a LOT of them that do similar things.

 

[rteetz]

I may be missing something, but Universal isn't taking those rooms out of inventory to sell them and lock customers in for 40+ years. If you think the two are remotely close to each other, then I don't know what to tell you.

Here's a question. If universal has an occupancy issue which I don't think they do nor do I know for sure, why are they building hotel number 5, just got done with number 4 last year, and have plans for 6 and 7.

 

[mvk]

Just some anecdotal support:

We are DVC members. We typically stay in a 1 or 2 BR (there's at least 5 of us).

Over a 10 day stay, we do 8 breakfasts in our room, 1 lunch. We also buy/bring our own water, snacks, COFFEE, etc. We're not buying any of that stuff from Disney.

I think, given conversations with other folks, there are a LOT of them that do similar things.

I don't think that is a DVC thing though. A ton of guests, me included, do breakfast in our room with items brough from home. We drink the free water at the parks, not buy bottled. We typically get the dining plan to eat the same amount of meals outside of the room that you seem to indicate you do. Coffee is included in that in the morning at the resort with the refillable mug.

So your anecdotal support doesn't mean you are spending less than someone who isn't DVC. That seems like the norm, to be honest.

 

[rteetz]

I don't think that is a DVC thing though. A ton of guests, me included, do breakfast in our room with items brough from home. We drink the free water at the parks, not buy bottled. We typically get the dining plan to eat the same amount of meals outside of the room that you seem to indicate you do. Coffee is included in that in the morning at the resort with the refillable mug.

So your anecdotal support doesn't mean you are spending less than someone who isn't DVC. That seems like the norm, to be honest.

It's the norm to Disney veterans like us who are on the disboards. Those less frequent and once in a life time visitors are going to but breakfast and spend the extra money.

 

[pilferk]

I may be missing something, but Universal isn't taking those rooms out of inventory to sell them and lock customers in for 40+ years. If you think the two are remotely close to each other, then I don't know what to tell you.

They are actually more similar than you think, in some respects.

My DVC ends up running me, if you cost it out in a pretty basic way, about $160 a night for a 1 BR. That's, functionally, two deluxe "bays". I understand why they're doing it...because they get the up front buy in that they can invest, and make opportunity money on over 50 years, AND my dues make them additional profit via administration. It's sunk money they can count on, and there's no variability. They can also veritably count on my ticket money to the parks.

Your assertion is, basically, Uni can't be making a similar, if more short term, attempt at pulling in money other ways, or attempting to lure in new business. That is HAS to be occupancy fueled.

While simultaneously making the OPPOSITE assertion...that Disney choosing to convert already built out facilities to DVC MUST be PURELY a profit driven decision, and not have anything to do with occupancy.

If YOU can't see the similarities, or the juxtaposition there, then...I agree...YOU don't know what to tell me.

I'd offer that the conversion of already built out facilities to DVC is BOTH a way to deal with an occupancy issue AND a way quick way to fuel more DVC profit. It was with Jambo house at AKL. It likely is with WL, as well.

Someone asked which Disney would prefer: Hotel booking or DVC conversion? They'd PREFER, given the rooms are already built out, to rent those rooms for the going hotel room rate for the next 50 years. If that resort were 100% occupancy, and trends showed it would stay that way, they wouldn't be converting...because converting means spending MORE money on something that already exists, and, actually, is more than likely paid for (considering when WL was built).

 

[mvk]

Here's a question. If universal has an occupancy issue which I don't think they do nor do I know for sure, why are they building hotel number 5, just got done with number 4 last year, and have plans for 6 and 7.

That's a question you'll have to ask them. Seems like a pretty big flaw in their leadership, considering Cabana Bay occupancy was low all throughout 2014 after opening in the spring.

 

[pilferk]

I don't think that is a DVC thing though. A ton of guests, me included, do breakfast in our room with items brough from home. We drink the free water at the parks, not buy bottled. We typically get the dining plan to eat the same amount of meals outside of the room that you seem to indicate you do. Coffee is included in that in the morning at the resort with the refillable mug.

So your anecdotal support doesn't mean you are spending less than someone who isn't DVC. That seems like the norm, to be honest.

We don't buy the mugs, either (and yes, included in your dining plan..but you're paying for them).

And I disagree. From my eye test, and from the anecdotal information posted here (and in the budget board), I'd guess you are in the minority when it comes to hotel guests.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.