Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[mom2rtk]

I believe it's partially Disney isn't interested in spending the money, which in my view is idiotic. Maintaining and enhancing what's there is much cheaper than sinking 200 million into an E Ticket. Why they don't have the foresight to preserve the experience is mind boggling. I also understand that offerings like Extra Magic Hours have put a strain on maintenance teams. Instead of closing and opening Parks at more reasonable hours, allowing enough time for proper work to be carried out, Disney has been offering this perk and neglecting proper care. I do realize that the product is immense and taking care of it all while welcoming 20 Million people a year is complicated. It's just looking at (I know I know) Disneyland and Tokyo Disney and the way that they're able to take care of things it just proves it can be done.

There may be something to the idea Disney has over expanded with four parks and doesn't have a competent work force because of it. I couldn't say one way or another. All I know is there are attractions that should be in great shape that aren't.

You don't think the revenue that is generated by such a large number of overpriced resorts with high occupancy rates could help support that?

They already cut back on the EMH hours. Maybe instead of bankrolling those savings (yes, I know just an assumption on my part) they should invest that back into park maintenance.

 

[DDLand]

You don't think the revenue that is generated by such a large number of overpriced resorts with high occupancy rates could help support that?

They already cut back on the EMH hours. Maybe instead of bankrolling those savings (yes, I know just an assumption on my part) they should invest that back into park maintenance.

Frankly I think the $105 dollar admission should cover basic maintenance and care. That's just me though. It frustrates me immensely. On the bright side POTC looks superb, Main Street looks gorgeous, and Mine Train seems to be holding up very well. New Fantasyland is aging with grace. It's strange because parts of the park are great, and others are embarrassing.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You're the one who always likes to talk about guests taking once in a lifetime trips or trips every three to five years. The majority of guests visiting MK today probably haven't experienced Mine Train yet. Everything that for us seems like ages ago (like Mine Train), are actually relatively new in the theme park's history. SW Land will be critical in drawing in new guests. I think it's bad business for them to move slowly on this, but keep in mind that all indicators are that they're moving at a good pace.

That to me is different conversation. New attractions are critical to WDW's long term success. More critical however, is a unwavering drive for quality and superior customer service. That will ensure the customer and fan base.

I don't understand why it's unbelievable that hundreds of dollars in savings would get families to reconsider when to visit.

I agree moslty with what you say here...

But do you remember the context that I refer to one timers and 5 year travelers in?

That the strategy is dangerous long term when things start to turn.

Disney is in a bit of trouble, people. Not in the line for mine train or the box office for the last 18 days...but in other far more important areas across their business segments.

They have to try to make up for ESPN and parks are the only way to effectively do that. So when you sit for 10 years at the flagship (that's generous...they actually downsized), then spend 7 years building 3 projects, and your competitors become real competitors for the first time in your history...you are NOT well positioned.

 

[kbelle8995]

I think they honestly realize that they have a bit of a problem with crowding. They do want to maximize park attendance. That's a given. People here don't seem to be realizing that it is a balance. Walt Disney World cannot continue cramming more and more people into the parks without a thoughtful look at operations. Strategies like New Fantasyland, MyMagic+, and tiered pricing are about finding the balance between guest comfort and ever increasing attendance. Tiered pricing will have an effect at driving away some guests to other times of the year. I just don't think all guests can ignore the cost incentive. This is about evenness and consistency. Sure they'll make more money, but at the same time you'll have your less crowded park. It's a win win.


Are you supposed to be excited about an addition five years from now? Disney has several new offerings opening this year at DAK and Epcot. Next year holds the promise of Avatar and likely Toy Story. Disney isn't trying to sell you a product that's opening in 5 years, they're selling you something today.


Except we, the people who watch Disney, are not the majority. Guests would be delighted by a SW Land whether it opened last year or in a decade (Of course judging by how fans have taken onto Rey, Poe, and Finn perhaps Iger was onto something with his delaying of SW Land). I doubt many guests walk away from a vacation at WDW feeling dejected because there's no SW Land. More likely their criticism would have something to do with quality of service and attractions, crowds, and wait times.

Those are what matter most from day to day. That's what ultimately will decide whether Disney World is screwed.

Yeah not exactly excited over a Frozen addition or Avatar. Avartar may turn out to better in person. But at this point a property that is not my thing. I don't think Disney is screwed far from it. You state that a fan will be willing to wait as long as it takes to build a great attraction. I'm just stating that for some there a limit.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Frankly I think the $105 dollar admission should cover basic maintenance and care. That's just me though. It frustrates me immensely. On the bright side POTC looks superb, Main Street looks gorgeous, and Mine Train seems to be holding up very well. New Fantasyland is aging with grace. It's strange because parts of the park are great, and others are embarrassing.

I can agree with this 100%. The things that really drive me nuts come from allowing things to completely fall apart before acting on them. I have no doubt Frozen will drive up attendance at EPCOT but I'm not sure embarrassing even begins to cover what they allowed Future World to become. Sure HS is getting additions in the future but it took it becoming Disney's Empty Building Land before anything happened. The leadership team is very reactive and not proactive and I still question how much change we'd really be getting if the rubber bracelets effectively pushed people into Stitch like they hoped.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Yeah not exactly excited over a Frozen addition or Avatar. Avartar may turn out to better in person. But at this point a property that is not my thing. I don't think Disney is screwed far from it. You state that a fan will be willing to wait as long as it takes to build a great attraction. I'm just stating that for some there a limit.

It also has to actually be a great attraction. When was the last great attraction put into Orlando? Was it ToT or RnR?

 

[kbelle8995]

It also has to actually be a great attraction. When was the last great attraction put into Orlando? Was it ToT or RnR?

I think depends on what the person thinks makes a great attraction.

And it's sad to think that FW has become a ghost of what it used to be when it seems what they are doing to that park is patches of repair. A new attraction for kids here and a new movie there.

Maybe they will get to rejuvenating Future World after they finish all the other ones. But that's a LOONG way off

 

[rteetz]

I'm just stating that for some there a limit.

Some but unfortunately not all which causes disney to continue its ways.

 

[rteetz]

It also has to actually be a great attraction. When was the last great attraction put into Orlando? Was it ToT or RnR?

Some would argue Soarin' or TSMM but that is still around 10 years ago.

 

[kbelle8995]

Some but unfortunately not all which causes disney to continue its ways.

True that.

 

[DDLand]

Yeah not exactly excited over a Frozen addition or Avatar. Avartar may turn out to better in person. But at this point a property that is not my thing. I don't think Disney is screwed far from it. You state that a fan will be willing to wait as long as it takes to build a great attraction. I'm just stating that for some there a limit.

Think about it like this. Suppose it does take 5 years for SW Land to open (not likely, but for conjectures sake) what will your initial reaction be when you walk in? Will it be one of "whoa, I can't wait to take in all these unique places and attractions?" Or will it be one of "well this looks pretty great, but I don't really like it because it should've opened last year?" Ultimately when the time comes SW Land will be judged by its show standards and up against other attractions. Not when it opened.

Hopefully Avatar is great, and Frozen I'm really looking forward to. Except for the line...

I agree moslty with what you say here...

But do you remember the context that I refer to one timers and 5 year travelers in?

That the strategy is dangerous long term when things start to turn.

Disney is in a bit of trouble, people. Not in the line for mine train or the box office for the last 18 days...but in other far more important areas across their business segments.

They have to try to make up for ESPN and parks are the only way to effectively do that. So when you sit for 10 years at the flagship (that's generous...they actually downsized), then spend 7 years building 3 projects, and your competitors become real competitors for the first time in your history...you are NOT well positioned.

It's only dangerous if they walk away with a bad experience. If you give them tons of fun they'll be back in 5 years or with their kids. That's how WDW has increasingly worked. If you're in love with Disney enough to buy an annual pass they must be doing something right already. Much more important then adding rides short term is ensuring the long term strength of the existing portfolio. If I could choose between a 500 million dollar land and 500 million dollars updating existing attractions I'd take the upgrades to existing attractions in a heart beat. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Iterative upgrades or plussing is a meaningful way to keep growth going.

I can agree with this 100%. The things that really drive me nuts come from allowing things to completely fall apart before acting on them. I have no doubt Frozen will drive up attendance at EPCOT but I'm not sure embarrassing even begins to cover what they allowed Future World to become. Sure HS is getting additions in the future but it took it becoming Disney's Empty Building Land before anything happened. The leadership team is very reactive and not proactive and I still question how much change we'd really be getting if the rubber bracelets effectively pushed people into Stitch like they hoped.

Yes there are some attractions that should be closed down due to their irreparable brand damage. Me and my brother hadn't been on Imagination in a couple years...

We walked off horrified. That is a terrible attraction. A few others I can think of too.

It also has to actually be a great attraction. When was the last great attraction put into Orlando? Was it ToT or RnR?

Everest, some would say. For sure Kilimnjaro Safari. SW Land will be great.

 

[DDLand]

Some would argue Soarin' or TSMM but that is still around 10 years ago.

Hey TSMM is like number 1 at Tokyo Disney Sea. Tokyo doesn't lie...

 

[kbelle8995]

Actually I've had some bad experiences with Disney lately. And let me tell you it does leave a sour taste in the mouth. Dirty bathrooms, lots of construction, some not so great experiences.

So I agree with you there. Sour enough to give up my AP and not want to go back until they have finished Star Wars land.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Hey TSMM is like number 1 at Tokyo Disney Sea. Tokyo doesn't lie...

TSMM is old and a c ticket. Men in black was opened 8 years earlier and frankly isn't less enjoyable.

Tokyo would eat rat poison if it had a Disney label on it.

 

[rteetz]

Tokyo would eat rat poison if it had a Disney label on it.

OLC would probably give higher quality rat point than TWDC would

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Everest, some would say. For sure Kilimnjaro Safari. SW Land will be great.

Everest? Seriously? A middle of the the road coaster with a broken AA that joe rohde spent $75 mil on the queue?

Star Wars land SHOULD be great. But you are giving way too much blind faith.

Here's a scenario: two fast pass designed, high capacity 2 minute simulators...a "mixed use" restaurant/cafeteria, and meet and greets...

That WOULD suck and seems to almost go to pattern.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

This is a huge long thread and I haven't read all of it, so I apologize if this has already been said. But the consensus seems to be that magic and/FP was a waste of money that should have been used on attractions instead. Personally, I disagree. FP has spoiled me for other amusement parks. There is a real benefit in customer experience to get to walk onto 3 big rides a day without running around the park to do it. We live 45 mins from Six Flags. I love roller coasters but the only thing that gets me in that park is that my kids get free tickets thru school. That and they are still young enough that they don't want to ride the really big coasters. You wait an hour for each big ride. So for my $75 ticket, I can ride maybe 7 or 8 big rides and spend the entire rest of the day in line, no thanks. Or I can add on $100 per ticket and get a limited version of a FP. No thanks. Six Flags adds new coasters all the time, but the overall value just isn't there for a wide swath of the population. I think Universal is the same. We went 10 yes ago and it was a one and done for us. Admittedly that was before Harry Potter but DD7 is a huge fan so we considered it but others we talked to said it wait until are kids are older because there's nothing else for them there. Diagon Alley is amazing but not worth $100. It seems like Universal is a one trick pony for that age range or that HP is misplaced there because it's going to be magical for your 6-10 year olds but the rest of the park is for teenagers. Fundamentally I think Universal and Disney are after different demographics. Sure, there's overlap, but Disney has the cache with families. The nostalgia of people taking their kids and there needs to be a certain amount of historical familiarity for that to work. I'm not saying they don't need to add new rides or maintain what they have, but I don't think they need a new coaster a year.

DD7 was put out for over a year because 'all her friends had been to Disney' and she hadn't. She's a huge HP fan but has not yet asked to be taken to Universal. It just doesn't have the family draw yet. Not that it couldn't get there, but Disney would have to fall a long way and Universal would have to grow a lot before everyone stayed at Universal and took a day or two to go to Disney. Or at least in the demographics I hang out with, which are not your hardcore amusement park fans.

 

[briggscreek]

We spent 2 days at universal and 7 at WDW in November, it was the first trip to Orlando for my 9 and 11 year old kids. After the trip, they both said that next time they would rather spend more time at Universal than WDW. They weren't impressed with MK, we go to Disneyland once or twice a year and all agree it's so much better, but they loved AK and EPCOT and could spend several days in just those two parks. Next time we'll probably do 4 or 5 days at Uni and 2 or 3 at WDW.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Everest? Seriously? A middle of the the road coaster with a broken AA that joe rohde spent $75 mil on the queue?

Star Wars land SHOULD be great. But you are giving way too much blind faith.

Here's a scenario: two fast pass designed, high capacity 2 minute simulators...a "mixed use" restaurant/cafeteria, and meet and greets...

That WOULD suck and seems to almost go to pattern.

This is my biggest fear. Based on what we've seen recently I have no reason to think anything amazing is going to come out of SW. I'd like to think that the Cantina is a no brainer on the restaurant but since they seem to be scared of doing anything people will actually recognize even that seems like an iffy proposition. Either way it will most likely be an extremely overpriced character meal.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Some would argue Soarin' or TSMM but that is still around 10 years ago.

I could see this and the safari as well as Everest. Sadly though as you noted it's been so long that I've forgotten the order they came.