Is Disney finally seeing consumers say they're pricing themselves out of peoples ability to pay?

[Baduist]

The way I see it, Disney started recently fighting ticket value erosion by trying to keep crowds away, and expanding.

The strategy: more room, less people, higher spend per person.

It’s a tricky balance to achieve, and it seems like they missed the target hitting too far:

SWGE seemed to replicate the Disneyland Paris (then Eurodisney) opening: they were so worried about overcrowding the precautions backfired and kept people away.

Combined with higher prices on literally everything (rooms, tickets, parking, services, even fees on food delivery at WDW), it seems that the ‘keep crowds away’ tactic worked too well.

My guess is they are in the right direction and will compensate in their two quarters, finding the balance eventually.

 

[SDSUrulez]

This has to do with a weakening consumer..... I am coming out there in 2020 and choke every time I have to drop another grand for something.

4 tickets to WDW for 9 days is over 2K which is painful. Then throw in another 2K to stay at a disney resort for just half of the stay and it is really hard to justify doing this trip more than once. Then they charge $24 a day for parking.... Just lame.

We are coming from the west coast and the trip is easily going to cost us 7K. Hard to justify....

 

[freediverdude]

Well I am a little crazy I give both girl $800 to spend while we are at WDW. For the 1st time both girls brought back money the oldest $600 and the youngest almost $200. I was told ebay is a better option. Everything at the parks was essentially the same thing.

This to me is a really bad sign. When you give kids a bunch of money to spend at a theme park and they can't find anything and come home with money? That is either very careful kids or Disney is leaving money on the table.

 

[Captainkidd76]

I know nothing about how Disney comes up with their theme park numbers, but I think Disney simply got a bit too greedy. 3 years ago, I couldn't imagine skipping WDW for a year. The tickets haven't been what's keeping us away. I swore I would never go to WDW and stay at a non Disney hotel. Those days are over. Bottom line is, Disney has priced us out on the hotels. Yup, we went this year. We stayed at a non Disney resort, and spent a day at Sea World. One day at Busch Gardens. One day at Discovery Cove. The name of the game has always been "keep them on property". They're not winning that fight anymore. Between ridiculous prices, lack of quality new attractions, lack of perks for onsite guests, and the insane amount of planning now necessary, they overplayed their hand.

 

[giovanni2231]

Disney World is crowded to the point that it's ticket value is decreasing ....

Agree with Hopperfan... WDW's long lines, over crowded parks along with a flawed FP system and 180 day dining reservation system that sticks you to this regimented vacation that once there is hard to change is what eventually turns people off, not the ticket price increase. Just coming off 18 days in WDW this past June, I can tell you, unless you are willing to splurge (which we did) on the extras, you are not going to feel satisfied. People are willing to spend the money on ticket prices, no matter high Disney makes them, where it starts to become an issue, what value did you get from that ticket. Unless you planned ahead and even then you still might feel short changed. Most likely when it came time to make your FP's, the rides you want aren't all available or the times do not work with the rest of your schedule. Then outside of the FP rides, you find yourself staring at 40 minutes plus for most attractions as an average time to wait. We are now in an age where the People Mover has a 15 to 20 minute wait most days. Then if you didn't make dining, you can forget sitting down unless it is for a quick service. The bottom line, park attendance is at an all time high, in fact too high. DVC hotels are going up faster than they can draw out the plans. I find the After Hours and Early Morning special ticket events so much more worth their weight then the everyday park pass. Of course we have AP's as well, but I could see where people have an issue paying the prices they pay for tickets along with all the money they spend at WDW when the crowds are as big as they are. Disney has now made sure even during the slower times of the year to create special events like Food/Wine, Flower/Garden and Festivals of the Arts that create big crowds, so there really is no good time to go to WDW anymore. You just have to pick what time works for you and your family and make it work. Chances are, when all said and done, you have left Disney feeling a little short changed for what you spent, but again, that is due to the crowds of people with the same idea as you. Wait until SWGE opens...

And a little food for thought! Disney spends so much time trying to make everyone have the same experience, that the people that spend more money staying in the deluxe hotels, eating in signature restaurants along with purchasing Deluxe Dining Plans and Special Ticket Events feel cheated! Bottom line, the old adage you get what you pay for, doesn't really exist at WDW. The person off property or staying in a value resort basically has the same perks as the person staying at a Deluxe resort when it comes to FP, dining reservations, etc... Maybe they need to tier some of the perks. Look at Universal, you stay in a Deluxe resort there, Express passes are included; you don't, you pay for them, even if staying in their value or more moderate hotels! For example, if you feel you want to stay at the Grand Floridian let's say, you would know that although you are paying $$$$ for your resort stay, at least you would feel like there are added perks verse spending $ or $$ and staying at a Value or Moderate resort. Them doing something like this, may help people feel there is more value in what they are spending.

 

[KenHutch]

This to me is a really bad sign. When you give kids a bunch of money to spend at a theme park and they can't find anything and come home with money? That is either very careful kids or Disney is leaving money on the table.

The oldest (18 then) tried but found everything the same and even told me she could get 3 times as much stuff on Amazon and Ebay than the stuff they had last year. This is something I think I lot of people understand. In 2006 on our 1st trip I bought myself 6 shirts. I still have them. From our 3rd trip in 2012 I cannot tell you how many I bought because none have survived and only one from the 2015 trip. Our last trip I looked for polo shirts. I found the same with Mickey on it in at least 25 spots. No where could I find a park or hotel one. I just didn't spend the cash there.

 

[MomOTwins]

I would really love to try a deluxe resort, but I just can’t stomach the price. I don’t see the value in $200+ more per night for indoor hallways and walk ability. We’ve considered a split stay next trip, but I don’t know that it’s worth it.

For us it is not about the indoor hallways and walkability (although that is nice, especially when there are florida thunderstorsm). It is (1) we are a family of 5 so need our space, and the deluxe the rooms are more spacious, and the bathrooms have actual doors instead of a curtain or partition, both of which make it much more comfortable for us to share a room with our three boys; (2) the beds are sooooo much more comfortable; I couldn't sleep well the one time we tried a mod and it left me exhausted at the parks; (3) the on-site dining is a huge benefit for us--we do short stays it is a huge advantage to us to be able to get in a character or signature meal on arrival night without having to lose hours to transportation, and a character breakfast on departure day before a midday flight; (4) I know the mods have themeing, but it doesn't quite blow me away the way the deluxes do, and we like that magical escapist feel you get at a deluxe. Another big reason we have favored deluxes is that we don't like multiple-bus-stops experience at mods which makes bus transportation even more unpleasant, and we like to avoid busses where possible and take the boat/monorail depending on the resort and park. Now that the mods have the skyliner I am more tempted, but I will wait to see reviews of how long it takes and if the lack of AC or thunderstorms make it problematic.

More generally, I am not priced out yet of Disney altogether, but I am priced out of a few things. For example, I won't be purchasing out-of-state annual passes at the current prices. I also won't pay out of pocket for certain character meals if I am not on the dining plan.

Sorry, but I don't agree at all.

July 11-18, 2020 at Beach Club - $503 per night
July 11-18, 2020 at Hard Rock - $414 per night

The only reason it's that high is because AP rates and Stay More Save More rates aren't loaded yet. We go every year in July and the only time we ever paid more than $250 per night at Hard Rock was a year we got a Deluxe Room.

But if you want to look at a closer time when discount rates are already loaded, here you go:

December 14-21 at Beach Club - $500 per night
December 14-21 at Hard Rock - $262 per night

We priced out universal for a weekend stay in November and it was significantly more than Disney World ($539 per night at Universal versus $416 at Yacht Club), so you could find examples going the other way too.

 

[Captainkidd76]

For us it is not about the indoor hallways and walkability (although that is nice, especially when there are florida thunderstorsm). It is (1) we are a family of 5 so need our space, and the deluxe the rooms are more spacious, and the bathrooms have actual doors instead of a curtain or partition, both of which make it much more comfortable for us to share a room with our three boys; (2) the beds are sooooo much more comfortable; I couldn't sleep well the one time we tried a mod and it left me exhausted at the parks; (3) the on-site dining is a huge benefit for us--we do short stays it is a huge advantage to us to be able to get in a character or signature meal on arrival night without having to lose hours to transportation, and a character breakfast on departure day before a midday flight; (4) I know the mods have themeing, but it doesn't quite blow me away the way the deluxes do, and we like that magical escapist feel you get at a deluxe. Another big reason we have favored deluxes is that we don't like multiple-bus-stops experience at mods which makes bus transportation even more unpleasant, and we like to avoid busses where possible and take the boat/monorail depending on the resort and park. Now that the mods have the skyliner I am more tempted, but I will wait to see reviews of how long it takes and if the lack of AC or thunderstorms make it problematic.

More generally, I am not priced out yet of Disney altogether, but I am priced out of a few things. For example, I won't be purchasing out-of-state annual passes at the current prices. I also won't pay out of pocket for certain character meals if I am not on the dining plan.



We priced out universal for a weekend stay in November and it was significantly more than Disney World ($539 per night at Universal versus $416 at Yacht Club), so you could find examples going the other way too.

Have you checked recently? Not sure about your dates but the 1st weekend in November Hard Rock is $399. 2nd weekend is $394. 3rd weekend is $419. 4th weekend is $384. That's based on a 2 night stay. The cheapest room at Yacht Club (currently) for any weekend in November is $544 per night.

 

[MomOTwins]

Have you checked recently? Not sure about your dates but the 1st weekend in November Hard Rock is $399. 2nd weekend is $394. 3rd weekend is $419. 4th weekend is $384. That's based on a 2 night stay. The cheapest room at Yacht Club (currently) for any weekend in November is $544 per night.

I go my yacht club stay when they first released the discounts, so I get that prices go up and down, but not interested in switching at this point as i got my star wars rezzies

Point is just that I think prices are pretty even if u take advantage of disney discounts

 

[Captainkidd76]

I go my yacht club stay when they first released the discounts, so I get that prices go up and down, but not interested in switching at this point as i got my star wars rezzies

Point is just that I think prices are pretty even if u take advantage of disney discounts

They're only even if Disney has a fantastic discounted rate and you're only looking at Hard Rock rack rates. Again, as I posted yesterday, this is the rate we are paying in December:

Arrival Date Saturday, December 7, 2019 Departure Date Friday, December 13, 2019 Total Number of Nights 6 Room Type Pool View 2 Queen Room

Requests High Floor, Connecting room requested (Room connected by interior door) Room Rate Per Night Dec 7​ $280.50​ Dec 8 - Dec 12​ $261.75​ Rate Description Stay More, Save More 5 Night Discount

Even for just 3 nights, here's what we're paying at Royal Pacific next month with an AP rate:

Arrival Date Friday, September 6, 2019 Departure Date Monday, September 9, 2019 Total Number of Nights 3 Room Type Standard King Room

Room Rate Per Night Sep 6 - Sep 7​ $224.00​ Sep 8​ $189.00​ Rate Description Annual Passholder Rate Special rates for Annual Passholders. Plus, you receive FREE Universal Express Unlimited to skip the regular theme park lines. Must present valid Annual Pass at check-in. Not combinable with other offers/discounts.

When was the last time you saw any Deluxe Resort under $200? Or $300 for that matter? Heck, not a single Deluxe Resort has a rack rate under $500. And again, with those rates at Universal you get the best perk there is - Unlimited Universal Express. Imagine what Unlimited Fastpass would go for at Disney. At $200 per day, thousands of people would buy it.

 

[MomOTwins]

They're only even if Disney has a fantastic discounted rate and you're only looking at Hard Rock rack rates. Again, as I posted yesterday, this is the rate we are paying in December:

Arrival Date Saturday, December 7, 2019 Departure Date Friday, December 13, 2019 Total Number of Nights 6 Room Type Pool View 2 Queen Room

Requests High Floor, Connecting room requested (Room connected by interior door) Room Rate Per Night Dec 7​ $280.50​ Dec 8 - Dec 12​ $261.75​ Rate Description Stay More, Save More 5 Night Discount

Even for just 3 nights, here's what we're paying at Royal Pacific next month with an AP rate:

Arrival Date Friday, September 6, 2019 Departure Date Monday, September 9, 2019 Total Number of Nights 3 Room Type Standard King Room

Room Rate Per Night Sep 6 - Sep 7​ $224.00​ Sep 8​ $189.00​ Rate Description Annual Passholder Rate Special rates for Annual Passholders. Plus, you receive FREE Universal Express Unlimited to skip the regular theme park lines. Must present valid Annual Pass at check-in. Not combinable with other offers/discounts.

When was the last time you saw any Deluxe Resort under $200? Or $300 for that matter? Heck, not a single Deluxe Resort has a rack rate under $500. And again, with those rates at Universal you get the best perk there is - Unlimited Universal Express. Imagine what Unlimited Fastpass would go for at Disney. At $200 per day, thousands of people would buy it.

Yes, it was reck rate at universal because there were no discounts at universal for our dates (which are pre and post cruise nights, so not flexible) and we are not passholders. I don’t doubt that a discounted universal rate is pretty much always cheaper at universal than rack rate at disney world. But not every trip is going to work our where universal is discounted and disney is not.

 

[PRaffen]

"NickC, post: 60929475, member: 619999"]
"I may not have lost the ability to pay, but the willingness to pay is slowly fading."

THIS!!!! How I feel exactly. I have loved Disney since my first trip to Disneyland at the age of 8 but I sure am getting tired of Greedy Mouse. Locations that used to be available for anyone to use for fireworks or parade viewing now have a cost; every time I turn around the park is closing for a special ticketed event, paying a ridiculous amount to stay at GF and then they tack on another $25/night for parking, and on and on. Even though we now live in Florida, our trips are becoming less and less as I am over the feeling of Mickey picking my pocket at every opportunity. Especially when I see dirty bathrooms, encounter surly CM's and closed attractions.

 

[Captainkidd76]

Yes, it was reck rate at universal because there were no discounts at universal for our dates (which are pre and post cruise nights, so not flexible) and we are not passholders. I don’t doubt that a discounted universal rate is pretty much always cheaper at universal than rack rate at disney world. But not every trip is going to work our where universal is discounted and disney is not.

True. And yeah, I'm a Universal AP Holder, so I"m always on the hunt. Because we usually stay for more than 5 nights, we get the SMSM rate which ends up being less expensive than even the AP rate. When I was an AP holder at Disney, I used to score some pretty sweet discounts. Then all of a sudden, they started to disappear and the rates eventually went past what I would pay any longer. This past year was the first time in a while I saw some good rates. We got a previous guest discount and could have gotten Wilderness for $328 or Grand Floridian for $478. Wilderness I would pay. Just not willing to pay $500 a night for a room any more. We did it at Disneyland Hotel last year because it was our 1st trip and I didn't know any better. Won't happen again. Not because the hotel wasn't nice. It just isn't necesary with so many hotels across the street.

 

[hereforthechurros]

I know nothing about how Disney comes up with their theme park numbers, but I think Disney simply got a bit too greedy. 3 years ago, I couldn't imagine skipping WDW for a year. The tickets haven't been what's keeping us away. I swore I would never go to WDW and stay at a non Disney hotel. Those days are over. Bottom line is, Disney has priced us out on the hotels. Yup, we went this year. We stayed at a non Disney resort, and spent a day at Sea World. One day at Busch Gardens. One day at Discovery Cove. The name of the game has always been "keep them on property". They're not winning that fight anymore. Between ridiculous prices, lack of quality new attractions, lack of perks for onsite guests, and the insane amount of planning now necessary, they overplayed their hand.

We swore we would never stay offsite either but then we planned a last minute spring break trip and couldn’t stomach the resort costs. Stayed offsite for the first time. And once you stay offsite, you’ll always consider it. Also had no interest in universal but since we are now comfortable with offsite we are comfortable with looking at other theme park options. Even the AP discounts haven’t been great. This year we’ve booked once with a travel agent, once offsite, once through rented DVC points, once through Priceline and over NYE we are booked with a TA but hoping the AP discount finally pays off for the first week of January. Definitely not renewing APs next year.

 

[Fred M]

Chapek has been slowly turning Disney parks into big DisMarts - where so much of the merchandise is unoriginal and repetitive.

Totally agree with this! I had the family in DLR last week and usually I buy at least one baseball cap, a shirt, and a hoodie or sweatshirt that is unique or at least "I gotta have that!" During our most recent trip, every baseball cap that I saw was available in the ShopDisney app. Most of the t-shirts I could pick up at my local Disney store. As for the hoodies or sweatshirts, they were either meh or a different color of the unique shirt I bought 3 years ago.

I really feel like I'm getting a better selection of merchandise from my local Target, Walmart, and Disney Store than when I'm at the parks.

 

[DLgal]

Totally agree with this! I had the family in DLR last week and usually I buy at least one baseball cap, a shirt, and a hoodie or sweatshirt that is unique or at least "I gotta have that!" During our most recent trip, every baseball cap that I saw was available in the ShopDisney app. Most of the t-shirts I could pick up at my local Disney store. As for the hoodies or sweatshirts, they were either meh or a different color of the unique shirt I bought 3 years ago.

I really feel like I'm getting a better selection of merchandise from my local Target, Walmart, and Disney Store than when I'm at the parks.

I have bought more Disney shirts from Target and Box Lunch over the last few years than I have at Disneyland (which I visit like every week). The thing is, a t shirt at Target is $12.99 and the same quality as the ones in park. Shirts at Box Lunch are pricier, but they often have sales and you can use your "lunch money" to get discounts as well, and those shirts are FAR BETTER quality than the ones at Disney parks, for about the same retail price.

Disney parks merchandise lately has become VERY generic and for women, at least, the styles and fit on the shirts, in particular, are just strange (short, boxy shirts; excessively long, skinny tops; backless/strappy shirts; a lot of rayon, which tends to fall apart in the wash; strange colors, etc). It is very hard to find clothing that is unique and fits well. I am also over the "social media" influenced slogans on shirts.

 

[Fred M]

"NickC, post: 60929475, member: 619999"]
"I may not have lost the ability to pay, but the willingness to pay is slowly fading."

THIS!!!! How I feel exactly. I have loved Disney since my first trip to Disneyland at the age of 8 but I sure am getting tired of Greedy Mouse. Locations that used to be available for anyone to use for fireworks or parade viewing now have a cost; every time I turn around the park is closing for a special ticketed event, paying a ridiculous amount to stay at GF and then they tack on another $25/night for parking, and on and on. Even though we now live in Florida, our trips are becoming less and less as I am over the feeling of Mickey picking my pocket at every opportunity. Especially when I see dirty bathrooms, encounter surly CM's and closed attractions.

The Disney fan in me agrees and it makes me sad.

The Disney shareholder part of me feels like this:

 

[SillySallySews]

The oldest (18 then) tried but found everything the same and even told me she could get 3 times as much stuff on Amazon and Ebay than the stuff they had last year. This is something I think I lot of people understand.

This is me! I love a lot of the merchandise, but I rarely buy it while at Disney. Why would I pay full price for what I can come home and buy on eBay for half the price, including shipping? I don't like the eBay people who buy up limited merchandise and mark up the prices on things that are in demand, but there's a lot of "regular" things on eBay going for half of retail or less.

(Edited because I hit save too early) I am not yet priced out of Disney resorts, but the parking fee was the first thing that actually made me seriously consider staying offsite. If I'm staying deluxe and CL at that, I think I should be allowed to park my car for the duration of my stay for free. I've paid stupid ridiculous parking fees in major cities and that's at least part of why I usually only visit those places once and done. We are onsite for this next trip, but if the resort parking fees continue to go up like regular parking fees, that will probably be my personal deal breaker. And if they want everything "up to industry standard" as they stated was the reason for creating the fee, then they should bump their CL experience up to "industry standard" as well.

 

[focusondisney]

@Captainkidd76 , you make a very good case for the Universal resorts. I’d actually love to stay there. The problem is, I can’t do roller coasters or simulator rides, leaving me with very little to do in those parks. There are many more things for me to do at Disney. Although, Disney does seem to be increasing those types of rides now too. I personally would like to see Disney add some new animatronic attractions that they are so good at. But I’m probably in the minority on that. Anyway, my point is that quality & cost aren’t the only factors in deciding on a resort. You have to also want to go to the theme park the resort is located in.

 

[scionchigirl]

The Disney fan in me agrees and it makes me sad.

The Disney shareholder part of me feels like this:

View attachment 424015

But when the attendance begins to drop among FREQUENT guests,and it will,profits will take a hit.Iger is out of control now.The Fox purchase, gwaaa, and then "possibly" Ronan Farrow looking into him...,although the board did NOTHING about pervy Lassetter....he just kind of faded away.