Is basic etiquette just completely dead??

[disykat]

I'm always surprised that people consider weddings "social occasions." While I understand they have a social component, I always figure they are really ceremonies that are meant to be witnessed by those close to the bride and groom. When I was single, I was ONCE invited to a wedding as a "plus one" and I declined. Why would I want to go to a wedding of people I didn't know? Once DH and I were engaged, we considered ourselves a couple for weddings, funerals, etc.. Prior to that, we were singles. I never took a date to weddings, even when I was in them. - Actually, especially when I was in them. I had a "job" to do and my date would have been left on his own a lot.

 

[disykat]

double post - sorry!

 

[ariel71]

Nowhere has the OP said that these guests would not know other people at the reception, and I think that is a major distinguishing factor. I have been to more weddings than I can count as a single, and that includes those where I was granted a +1 but chose not to bring one if I wasn't in a relationship. I have been to very few weddings that didn't also include friends and acquaintances for me to spend time with. At a coworker's wedding, I was seated for dinner with people I didn't know. Was I thrilled to make small talk for an hour, no, but I spent the rest of the evening with my coworkers anyway, and in the grand scheme of things it was hardly that big of a deal.

I'm not talking about situations where the guest doesn't know many people or larger weddings where cost, space, etc. are not as limited. In cases like those, I do think a +1 is the more considerate option. However, if someone's invited to a smaller wedding, they presumably know the bride and/or groom fairly well and would probably know through the grapevine that it's a limited guest list. I would never expect the couple to exclude people they know to provide me a +1. If I found out that someone else was given a +1, I would assume there was some reason behind it and it wasn't a statement on my value as a friend. I find it sad that people can't manage one night on their own to celebrate a friend's wedding.

 

[branv]

So it's rude to invite a single person and not allow them to bring a guest?

So then would it NOT be rude when selecting your guest list to immediately cut out anyone who is single because you have a limited amount of space/budget, and can't afford the extra person they'd want to bring?

You do realize the conundrum here? The uproar about bias that would cause?

Incidentally, no one forces anyone to attend a wedding. If you don't like the situation (cost, social anxiety, food, etc), just don't go. That's what RSVP cards are for, to allow you to decline. It is not rude to not allow a +1 on an invite. YOU were invited after all, the hosts owe you nothing as you are not forced to attend. It is the hosts party, their dime, and their right to throw the celebration they like. Your presence has been requested, not demanded. So, it baffles me that people consistently treat invitations to events like an invitation to make demands. If your needs are particular, it's your obligation to decide if you can let it go or...again...decline the invitation. It's that simple.

 

[snuggly duckling]

They will be able to squeeze these few in if they have to but if they get many more it will be a problem, and it is taking away from a few additional people that they would like to invite if they have space - coworker friends, etc.

Clearly everyone has different takes on who is in the "wrong" and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally i think both sides are a little bit rude. But this quote is the one that jumps out to me...

Basically you are saying there IS room for these unexpected +1s but it's just preventing someone from the "B list" from getting a late invite. If the B list guests are that important they should have been on the A list to start.

 

[SydSim]

I must admit, when I was in my early twenties, I hadn't been to many weddings. I know that some people feel that it's common sense to understand an invite, but I had no clue and RSVP'd for me and my BF to a co-worker's (and good friend's) wedding.

Soon after, I overheard co-workers talking about how my friend was upset that people were bringing guests that weren't invited and I realized that I was one of them! I had no idea and thought that you usually bring a guest, not realizing what the invite even said on the envelope.

I quickly went to my friend and said that I would be coming alone. I wasn't put off at all and felt very guilty for putting her in that predicament.

Years later when I got married, I really saw the ramifications of uninvited guests at a wedding, but I also remember how I was clueless and can't fault people for NOT knowing the rules of invitation etiquette.

 

[jdb in AZ]

Clearly everyone has different takes on who is in the "wrong" and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally i think both sides are a little bit rude. But this quote is the one that jumps out to me...

Basically you are saying there IS room for these unexpected +1s but it's just preventing someone from the "B list" from getting a late invite. If the B list guests are that important they should have been on the A list to start.

But the B list guests at least know the bride and groom. Wouldn't you rather invite a B lister than someone you've never met?

 

[hlg22]

Sometimes a bride gets wrapped up in her special day a bit too much and forgets a little how to act like a human being.

This is funny, because my sister is the LEAST bridezilla-like person I know. She refused to have a bridal shower, engagement party, or bachelorette party because she didn't want her friends to feel obligated to buy gifts/spend money on her, and their registry is very modest (Target). I also fail to see how someone is "forgetting to act like a human being" when every single etiquette source I've been able to find (other than opinions on the DIS ) says that what they're doing is perfectly proper?

Clearly everyone has different takes on who is in the "wrong" and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally i think both sides are a little bit rude. But this quote is the one that jumps out to me...

Basically you are saying there IS room for these unexpected +1s but it's just preventing someone from the "B list" from getting a late invite. If the B list guests are that important they should have been on the A list to start.

In addition to cost concerns, the space at the venue is not unlimited - there is a hard and fast limit (120, so not huge), and there are big families on both sides. If they had invited everyone right up front and gotten more "yes" responses than expected, they would have been screwed - in fact, they have gotten more "yes" responses than expected in those that were sent out. The people on the "B List," as you put it, are coworkers who my sister is friendly with and who have told her that they would love to attend the wedding if they can.

Yeah. they have such a good handle on it that two or three plus ones are going to break them. Such a good handle indeed.

Nowhere did I say it was going to "break them." I said "They will be able to squeeze these few in if they have to but if they get many more it will be a problem, and it is taking away from a few additional people that they would like to invite if they have space." Their venue does not have an unlimited capacity...I hardly think that's unusual, and if people take it upon themselves to invite additional guests, that obviously screws with their numbers.

So your sister, who wants to save money, can just invite a person who has to fly out for the wedding and fell it is OK to have them be alone the whole time?

And yet, it seems to be ok to ask someone to fly in and come alone and share their day with a bunch of strangers, all for a sum total of 5 minutes they're actually going to be sharing with (instead of watching from a distance) the bride and groom.

Nowhere has the OP said that these guests would not know other people at the reception, and I think that is a major distinguishing factor. I have been to more weddings than I can count as a single, and that includes those where I was granted a +1 but chose not to bring one if I wasn't in a relationship. I have been to very few weddings that didn't also include friends and acquaintances for me to spend time with. At a coworker's wedding, I was seated for dinner with people I didn't know. Was I thrilled to make small talk for an hour, no, but I spent the rest of the evening with my coworkers anyway, and in the grand scheme of things it was hardly that big of a deal.

I'm not talking about situations where the guest doesn't know many people or larger weddings where cost, space, etc. are not as limited. In cases like those, I do think a +1 is the more considerate option. However, if someone's invited to a smaller wedding, they presumably know the bride and/or groom fairly well and would probably know through the grapevine that it's a limited guest list. I would never expect the couple to exclude people they know to provide me a +1. If I found out that someone else was given a +1, I would assume there was some reason behind it and it wasn't a statement on my value as a friend. I find it sad that people can't manage one night on their own to celebrate a friend's wedding.

As someone who is single, I still don't understand the assumption that a single person is incapable of attending a social event without an escort...but in any event, my close friend who rsvp'd for her (platonic) roommate as her plus one knows me as well as several of my sister's childhood friends and members of our family as we grew up together. She lives a few hours away from where the wedding will be held, so no flight necessary. The person who has already bought airfare/hotel for herself plus her uninvited guest is a distant cousin on the groom's side - she will know dozens of people at the wedding, including her parents. My understanding is that her "plus one" is a guy she has been dating about a month. They were hardly going to be sitting alone in a corner at the reception if they came by themselves. I don't believe there are any single guests who did not get a plus one who would be flying in and would not know anyone else at the wedding - most of the people traveling are either family or close college friends.

That is a very selective criteria in which some unmarried guests will receive a +1 and some will not. As I mentioned, there are obvious times when special consideration is given to special guests like the parents of the bride or the wedding party, but beyond that there is a risk of setting up a very visible "cool kid's club".

For that matter, I wonder how much research was put into each invite before deciding who was and wasn't 'seriously' dating someone? Like I said this is an opportunity for communication between the host and guest, not condemnation. In this particular case there was 3 or so obvious cases of miss-communication. That's a big part of the benefit of RSVP, that you get to sort some of these things out before hand. And you learn, in one case, that someone the host wanted at their wedding is willing to fly across the country for them at great personal cost of precious time and money and the complaint here is that she's bringing an escort that will cost the host an extra ... what $75?

As I said, it's not a large wedding. They know their friends/family, so there was no research needed and those unmarried guests who were invited as couples were invited in their own right, because my sister and her fiance know them and consider them friends.

Putting aside the space constraints, I agree - $75 is not a big deal...for me. However, it is for my sister and her fiance, who are paying for this wedding themselves. They're not cheap - wedding will have open bar, etc., but they don't have unlimited funds. A wedding invitation is an invitation, not a command, so if someone is really so offended that they can't bring a random guest, they're free to decline.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

Putting aside the space constraints, I agree - $75 is not a big deal...for me. However, it is for my sister and her fiance, who are paying for this wedding themselves. They're not cheap - wedding will have open bar, etc., but they don't have unlimited funds. A wedding invitation is an invitation, not a command, so if someone is really so offended that they can't bring a random guest, they're free to decline.

THIS is the best summary I've seen so far! It's an invitation, not a command, and while the bride and groom as hosts would like their attendees to be comfortable, they aren't obligated to provide a free night out for strangers!

 

[cobright]

Sorry, completely disagree, you aren't asking your guests to put them out, or not do something else they would rather do, you're inviting them to share in something special to you and your fiance.

Just look at the words you are using to describe this action. When person A asks person B to do something, who is doing whom the favor? Unless person A is person B's boss or mother then the answer is person B.

Now I have been schooled recently that there are in fact some people who look forward to other people's weddings. I have only ever met one person like this and her husband hated weddings enough for both of them.

Not allowing an "and Guest" to include complete stranger, while including someone's SO that you know well enough to invite by name, isn't even in the same ballpark.

The original post only mentioned that "plus ones" were sent to single people who were 'seriously dating'. If your suggestion is that the host of this wedding did not send a +1 to all seriously dating couples but only to seriously dating couples where the host was good friends with both of them (which is not at all the impression I got) then even more we have a situation where there are 'favorites' getting special consideration. Which is absolutely the host's right.

The bride and groom completely control who is invited to their event, it is not rude to not include a guest, any more than it's not rude to invite Bob down in accounting that you've never met.

There are limits and context in which I absolutely agree with you here. The lady invited to this wedding who wishes to bring her room mate can politely be told no. Though even then, there would be no harm in allowing him to arrive later in the evening after dinner and the cake have been served. Waiting outside while everyone eats is a little much, but I got the impression the guy wanted to shark on the nuptial-swooned single ladies that are in attendance at these parties. But whatever, that invitee was presuming too much.

On the other hand there is also a requirement that the host be a gracious one and that means being flexible and accommodating to the needs of your guests. If you find out that one of your out of town single invitees has been dating someone seriously and would be far more comfortable attending your event with an escort then there is absolutely an expectation that you at least attempt to accommodate that guest. If there simply aren't enough seats in the hall then there just aren't enough seats and you let the invitee know this with regret. But if this is a person the host wanted enough to invite, across airplane distances, then squeezing another chair in at the table does not seem like something to get bent out of shape over.

 

[cobright]

As I posted above, I was unable to find a single etiquette site or expert who agrees with you that every guest must be granted a plus one or it is a breach of etiquette.

To revisit this just a bit, and to make my point a little more clearly, It is not a breach of etiquette to send +1 invitations to some guests and not others; and it is a breach of etiquette to bring an uninvited escort.

It's not, however, a breach of etiquette to inquire about or request clarification of the guest policy before the event. As many etiquette mavens have lamented, the lines of etiquette have blurred and not everyone can count on everyone else understanding them. This goes both ways, a guest may inquire about bringing a guest because she suspects that the invitation was written without the formality in error. Requesting to bring a guest may then be a rude imposition or it may be an attempt to clarify the conditions of the invite. It's rude of a host to assume the former and hold an invitee's response up for public ridicule.

It is absolutely a breach of etiquette for the host to be ungracious to the inevitable guest or guests who arrive with an uninvited escort. As Emily Post's website says:

As discourteous as it is for someone to spring a surprise on you, be gracious.

Finally I would say that complaining about how some of your invitees responded to others who will also be guests at the same wedding is rude. More than that, it's base, snarky, it's childish. It seeds and fuels whispers and rumors among the guests. It is the act of someone who uses her phone during a movie to complain about the person in front of her's hat.

 

[Disney Doll]

Well, I guess it is bad etiquette.

I've never been a Miss Manners myself but I couldn't imagine inviting a single adult to that sort of a function and not including an "and guest." I also really don't have much of an ability to rate where everybody is in their dating lives as serious enough to warrant a couple invitation. Is that commonly done?

And I can't imagine being a single adult and not being able to attend a function without the security blanket of a "guest". When I was single, I went to many weddings without a guest. I had a ball meeting new people.

Presuming one is inviting people to one's wedding who one actually knows well, I could very well be able to determine who is dating someone seriously and who is not.

 

[krcit]

So it's rude to invite a single person and not allow them to bring a guest?

So then would it NOT be rude when selecting your guest list to immediately cut out anyone who is single because you have a limited amount of space/budget, and can't afford the extra person they'd want to bring?

You do realize the conundrum here? The uproar about bias that would cause?

Incidentally, no one forces anyone to attend a wedding. If you don't like the situation (cost, social anxiety, food, etc), just don't go. That's what RSVP cards are for, to allow you to decline. It is not rude to not allow a +1 on an invite. YOU were invited after all, the hosts owe you nothing as you are not forced to attend. It is the hosts party, their dime, and their right to throw the celebration they like. Your presence has been requested, not demanded. So, it baffles me that people consistently treat invitations to events like an invitation to make demands. If your needs are particular, it's your obligation to decide if you can let it go or...again...decline the invitation. It's that simple.

If I receive an invitation and circumstances don't work for me ie: financial, travel, babysitters, social anxiety, I can decline the invite. I don't expect the host to make special arrangements for me. It's an invitation not a command performance!

 

[Disney Doll]

If I could impress on brides-to-be and other wedding planners just one thing it would be this:
You are not doing your guests a favor by inviting them to your wedding. They are giving up a weekend afternoon. They are likely giving you a generous gift. They are giving you an adoring crowd on 'your' special day. What are you giving them? a crappy buffet? drinks and a crappy DJ? dancing on a linoleum floor to music bland enough to be enjoyed by the grandparents? Do you know why it is so common to have drunken drama at wedding receptions? It's because no one wants to be there and drinking is the only thing that eases the boredom.

Look at your guest list, half or more of them see being invited as an imposition and not an honor, but you're upset that one of them who is willing to get on a plane and (I assume) bunk in a motel in order to celebrate your wedding wants a friend along?

If a guest that I invite to any party I throw feels this way, then I would be happy for them to decline the invitation.

It's an invitation, not a subpoena. If they think the music is going to stink, the food is going to be lousy and there will be a bunch of drunks there, then they need to stay home. Frankly I always enjoy weddings...I don't get invited to many weddings of people to who I am not close, so if I DO get a wedding invite, it is for someone whose wedding I am happy to attend because they are important to me.

 

[ariel71]

To revisit this just a bit, and to make my point a little more clearly, It is not a breach of etiquette to send +1 invitations to some guests and not others; and it is a breach of etiquette to bring an uninvited escort.

It's not, however, a breach of etiquette to inquire about or request clarification of the guest policy before the event. As many etiquette mavens have lamented, the lines of etiquette have blurred and not everyone can count on everyone else understanding them. This goes both ways, a guest may inquire about bringing a guest because she suspects that the invitation was written without the formality in error. Requesting to bring a guest may then be a rude imposition or it may be an attempt to clarify the conditions of the invite. It's rude of a host to assume the former and hold an invitee's response up for public ridicule.

It is absolutely a breach of etiquette for the host to be ungracious to the inevitable guest or guests who arrive with an uninvited escort. As Emily Post's website says:


Finally I would say that complaining about how some of your invitees responded to others who will also be guests at the same wedding is rude. More than that, it's base, snarky, it's childish. It seeds and fuels whispers and rumors among the guests. It is the act of someone who uses her phone during a movie to complain about the person in front of her's hat.

Public ridicule? Where is that posted? Being gracious? Yes, to an uninvited guest who has already arrived. That's not the situation here. Being gracious does not mean having to accomodate the whim of every guest. The error is on the part of guests who don't have the common sense to google "wedding invitation etiquette" because pretty much every website out there specifies that the invitees are on the invitation. How else is a bridal couple supposed to invite a single individual? Explicitly write "this invitation is for you and you alone"?

We already know how you and your friends feel about the ridiculous obligation, drama-filled drunkfests that weddings apparently are. Whispers and rumors among guests? Relationship favoritism because of who gets a +1? I can't even get my head around that kind of pettiness. In the age of facebook and social media, it's highly unlikely that the couple wouldn't know that someone is in a serious relationship. Even so, it's meaningless. They get to invite who they want to invite. Plane ride or no. And to be honest, since it's a distant cousin, I'm guessing she's attending the wedding more to see other family than because she's that close to the bride.

OP, your sister sounds like a thoughtful and kind person, especially with your comment about not having showers and the like. She probably has to suck up the cousin's date at this point, but since the other one is a close friend of yours, I would step in and be the bad guy there. Can you say something like "Look, you know this isn't a big wedding and she's already had to cut the guest list narrower than she wanted to. There's no reason for your roommate to come since he doesn't know my sister, and sitting outside and not eating is just ridiculous"? He doesn't get to turn your sister's wedding into his own personal match.com event if that's what it's about.

If you get the sense that there are others who may respond in a similar way, I would see if there's any way to discreetly work it into conversation in some nonchalant way before it even comes up. For example, "yeah, they wish they could have invited more people, but the venue only holds x so they couldn't accomodate an extra guest for everyone." Saves face all around.

 

[ilovemk76]

But the B list guests at least know the bride and groom. Wouldn't you rather invite a B lister than someone you've never met?

I would be insulted if I found out I was on the B list and was invited to fill the venue (if they pay for a minimum) so they could get my check. So far that have never happened.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

When I got married, back in the dark ages, we invited a whole group of singles, didn't invite +1 unless we knew they were in a relationship. They were our friends and most of them knew each other and had a great time together. And then, of course, there was the "matchmaking". . . One of his friends met one of my friends at the wedding, and wound up dating each other for six months.

People raved about our wedding. . . How good the food was. How great the band was . . .

You don't get invited to the wedding of a stranger, after all. If the bride and groom aren't family, you're likely to have a group of friends in common. I've gone aline to weddings where I was seated with my friends from work, or my friends from school, or my friends from . . .well, wherever it was that I knew the bride and groom.

I've also been the plus 1. My boyfriend has a group of work friends he does not usually hang out with outside of work. But there was a bar mitzvah last year, and a wedding. I didn't know a soul except my boyfriend. I got the chance to meet a lot of interesting people. Honestly, though, my boyfriend would have had a good time with his friends even if I had not been there.


A movie like "The Wedding Crashers", silly as it was, wouldn't resonate if it weren't based in real social situations.

Seems to me that when a single person expects/demands a +1 when they're not in any relationship -- the entitlement nentality has spread. "I am entitled to bring a guest even though the etiquette books say otherwise and the bride didn't invite a guest."

You always have the option of declining the invitation.

A friend recently said that it was the height of rudeness to expect a single person to come to a wedding, sit alone at a table and eat crappy food just so you can get a check from them. I have to wonder whether it's her own social insecurites talking, or whether she's just been to some really horrible weddings. Either way . . . With or without my boyfriend, if I thought my invitation was a "gift grab", I would decline. Otherwise, I am going to the party and I'm goung to have fun.

 

[mjkacmom]

I would be insulted if I found out I was on the B list and was invited to fill the venue (if they pay for a minimum) so they could get my check. So far that have never happened.

Did I miss something? Fill the venue? I had an unofficial B list, my parents' neighbors, who I've known my whole life. Unfortunately, I didn't get to invite them (MIL insisted on inviting a bunch of friends, who even DH never met, and they RSVP's too late, that they weren't coming). Many of them did come to the church (we're Catholic, anyone is welcome to the ceremony). Sure, saved us money, but I would've liked to have invited them.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Maybe it's time to use a "lifeline."

The gospel according to Miss Manners . . .

As a strictly optional choice, if they are feeling generous, they can certainly ask their unattached guests if there is someone they would like to bring, extract that person’s name and use it to issue another invitation. The considerate way to do this is individually, so that no guest feels pressured to bring a date or embarrassed about suggesting a nondate, such as a friend, local host or caretaker.

Nor should any such person feel the humiliation of being a second-class guest. Issuing invitations in these people’s own names, done as a courtesy to the unknown friends of friends, is the gracious way to indicate that such people are accepted.

They must then be treated with the courtesies due to all guests. Miss Manners has been told dreadful stories of guests’ guests being told they cannot fully partake in the festivities. One such young lady was told by the bride that she would be allowed to attend the reception only if one of the A-list guests failed to show up. Another was criticized for unintentionally catching the bridal bouquet when it came her way, and again for not turning it over to a “real” guest.

For their own sakes, those who have been invited by guests, rather than by hosts, should make sure that their benefactors were authorized to do this. Even then, it would be wise to write a note to the bride, along the lines of “Ethan has asked me to accompany him to your wedding. I would consider it a great honor to attend, but I would also understand if his enthusiasm has over-run any boundaries. In any case, I send you my very best wishes for your happiness.”

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/feb/16/follow-protocol-when-inviting-guest-of-guest/

 

[Lorelei Lee]

I love Miss Manners!

She is so right.

I was single when I planned each of my daughters' bat mitzvah celebrations. My friends included married couples and single ladies. Anyone who was in a long-term relationship got a + 1. Anyone who wasn't in a relationship didn't get a +1 (including me, I was dating someone when my older dd had her party, wasn't dating anyone when younger dd had her party). Sat all my single friends together and we had a blast. (In fact a couple of my married friends left their husbands at home . . .)

Your job as host/hostess is to make sure your guests have a good time. You have to choose a venue that is appropriate to the number of guests you've invited, you have to provide sufficient food and drink for everyone and you have to greet your guests and make them feel welcome, that you really want them there. That you are honored to have them at your party, not that they should be honored you chose to invite them.

Hint, hint. Trust your caterer, they know their business. I came home from both bat mitzvah parties with several trays of leftovers, but at least I knew no one went home hungry!