Is anyone on the Dream right now? How did a girl fall overboard?

[mousehouse23]

There are certain stories that capture people's imagination and won't let go. This is one of them, and I am as guilty as anyone else in trying to fill in gaps I only have second- or third-hand knowledge of, and much of that conflicting.

I think every parent can't help but imagine what they'd do in this scenario, while endlessly playing out the various outcomes in their heads. Thus, there can be one "truth," but many different narratives going on simulaneously. Is the father "bad" or "heroic?" But people, and their circumstances, are endlessly complicated and multi-faceted. A man's bravery can live alongside his momentary distractedness. We are all too human.

At the end of the day, he went after his daughter. They both, miraculously, survived. I think some of this speculation is us living out the nightmare scenarios in which they didn't.

 

[meliscan]

Actually, I would have thought it more likely that a Teen would fall over. For years my daughter would tell me stories of late night "games" that Teens play while roving the ship. Some would climb on the life boats, others would hide and seek in crew access areas etc. Security would try and keep up but it was a game of cat and mouse. This did not happen all the time, but certainly more than I was happy about. Luckily my daughter knew to separate herself but this stuff would happen unexpectedly with some kids showing off.

I am going to have to quiz my teenager. I always told them that they could have some freedom but they had better not do anything to get me kicked off the ship.

 

[meliscan]

How did the father get to her. If he did not see her go over, he had to look for her first and then find a place where a grown male had access to jump over. If it was not in the area where she was in the water it would be extremely difficult to get to her.

I was wondering this same thing. If he was really playing shuffleboard he had to run quite a distance to get to the porthole where she went overboard. How would you even know for sure from that distance it was your kid. Unless they looked down and saw her and he jumped from the shuffleboard area. That makes them both surviving even more miraculous.

 

[MomOTwins]

Can you imagine, in the most terrifying moment of your life as a parent, that the first instinct of thousands of people that you don't know is to get on social media/discussion boards/etc to judge you before all of the details even come out? I wonder what that would feel like. Putting myself in that mama's shoes for a minute, I'm just so happy that her baby and her husband are safe. Hopefully they can move on in peace and privacy.

I mean, you’re right, I can’t imagine it, but that’s only because I can’t imagine ever letting my kid sit on a rail hanging over the water’s edge.

Whenever a parent drives drives drunk and their kid is in a crash, or leaves a baby in a hot car, or does drugs and forgets to the feed a child, they also get a lot of shame from the community, whether or not the child is rescued in time. Sometimes shame is a good thing socially. It helps a person realize when they have failed in their responsibilities and need to do better going forward (I am willing to bet these parents will be a bit more vigilant going forward), and helps society calibrate what is the line between socially acceptable behavior and unacceptable behavior.

 

[Pinkjgray]

You may have a hard time believing but I was on that cruise and my servers - Lucy from Argentina was our drinks server, and I believe our main server was Waru (sp?) from Indonesia - did indeed tell us that the medical evacuation was a man in his 50s who sat at their tables in the first dining rotation and he’d had a heart attack. They were very shaken up by it. Would you like me or my dining companions to swear out an affidavit? Happy to do so!

As for people pointing to the Daily Mail - I lived in the UK for several years and we always called it the Daily Fail. It’s far from being a source of truth and facts. I’d wait for a far more reputable report.

Glad everyone survived what could have been a terrible tragedy.

I was on this EBTA sailing in May. You are correct. The person who was medivac was a man who had a heart attack.

 

[DWillowBay]

How did the father get to her. If he did not see her go over, he had to look for her first and then find a place where a grown male had access to jump over. If it was not in the area where she was in the water it would be extremely difficult to get to her.

I've had similar questions as well... Keep in mind that the ship was moving. It may not have been more than crawling along, but it was moving. No matter how long it took or where he dived into the water, there is a very good chance that she was far behind him. I've said before that my concern was for the child and however all this shakes out is really not my business. However, there are logical, forensic questions that stand out to me.

 

[RedHead0186]

You may have a hard time believing but I was on that cruise and my servers - Lucy from Argentina was our drinks server, and I believe our main server was Waru (sp?) from Indonesia - did indeed tell us that the medical evacuation was a man in his 50s who sat at their tables in the first dining rotation and he’d had a heart attack. They were very shaken up by it. Would you like me or my dining companions to swear out an affidavit? Happy to do so!

As for people pointing to the Daily Mail - I lived in the UK for several years and we always called it the Daily Fail. It’s far from being a source of truth and facts. I’d wait for a far more reputable report.

Glad everyone survived what could have been a terrible tragedy.

OK, I'm sorry. I don't see a need for snark, though. As I said, there were multiple different 'stories' being mentioned when it happened, so as someone who had no firsthand account it was very hard to know what was true. I'm very sorry to hear that your servers experienced that, it must have been scary for them.

 

[mmouse37]

So some interesting takeaways here:

• The "crew member told me story" about the child climbing up and over while the parents played shuffleboard was clearly incorrect. There is no shuffleboard next to those portholes. I had a lot of doubts about it at the time (why wouldn't the crew member say something when they knew the child was climbing? why would they later blab the story to a random other guest?). This is why we have hearsay laws and prevent conclusions being drawn in court from what people heard someone else say.
• The original eyewitness accounts actually turned out to be pretty close to reality. They said child was sitting on the railing for a photo.
  • The police narrative has confirmed that the child was in fact sitting on the railing, facing inward (fell backward).
  • The police have not said how she got onto the railing or how long she was up there, but have said they are investigating the moments leading up the girl being on the railing.
  • The dad apparently did not see the moment of the fall but the mom apparently did.
  • The police have not commented one way or another on whether before the fall, either parent took a photo of the child while she was sitting on the railing.
• Regardless of whether the photo aspect is true, I think a lot of people are justified in saying this is absolutely negligent from a parenting perspective. A five year old should never be allowed to sit on a railing hanging over a 50 ft drop to an open ocean, period--not for a photo, not for any other reason.
• I also take issue with everyone saying over the last few days there is "no way" a child could have gotten up by themselves. As the porthole photos illustrate, it is basically a stepladder to get over the edge. I don't think that means disney cruises are unsafe. I mean, a child could easily fall to their death if you them allow them to sit on the rail overlooking the atrium, or on a balcony at any disney hotel. But nobody says "don't stay at disney world hotel, it's a death trap." Instead, I think the correct point is that a child could go over a cruise ship rail, but it would require more than a momentary lapse of attention from a parent.

Agree. I was in the camp that no way a child could get up and sit on a railing but when I saw the portholes (walked by them numerous times but never really looked down at the ledge below it) I could see how someone could get up there.

But, as I said in another forum....those portholes have been there since 1998 as the Magic and Wonder have them as well. Thousands upon thousands of people and kids have walked by them without incident. Personal responsibility matters....now a lovely view and an access point for a nice breeze while walking the track will probably be covered up due to one incident. That makes me mad. We can't possibly, in the world, protect everyone from every possible dangerous situation. Are we all going to live in a bubble? I am very happy that both the dad and child were saved but I don't understand why the parents were not watching/near enough to the child near an open porthole.

We will be boarding the Dream in 2 days. I bet that area of the walking track will be closed and I will report back if the portholes were altered yet or in the process of being altered. We are traveling with 6 grandkids ages 2-10 and we will absolutely tell them what happened and why you never do things like that.

MJ

 

[SuzErwin]

OK, I'm sorry. I don't see a need for snark, though. As I said, there were multiple different 'stories' being mentioned when it happened, so as someone who had no firsthand account it was very hard to know what was true. I'm very sorry to hear that your servers experienced that, it must have been scary for them.

Our servers weren't present when the medical emergency happened (at least they didn't say they were), but they were upset and concerned for one of their guests and shared that with us. So cast members/crew do talk to guests. Again, happy to testify this happened and isn't clout farming or being malicious. Maybe give people the benefit of the doubt?

Whatever happened on the Dream, it was for sure miraculous they survived.

 

[awrites]

I mean, you’re right, I can’t imagine it, but that’s only because I can’t imagine ever letting my kid sit on a rail hanging over the water’s edge.

Whenever a parent drives drives drunk and their kid is in a crash, or leaves a baby in a hot car, or does drugs and forgets to the feed a child, they also get a lot of shame from the community, whether or not the child is rescued in time. Sometimes shame is a good thing socially. It helps a person realize when they have failed in their responsibilities and need to do better going forward (I am willing to bet these parents will be a bit more vigilant going forward), and helps society calibrate what is the line between socially acceptable behavior and unacceptable behavior.

It’s been mentioned previously, but I will bet the parents both feel plenty of shame and guilt all on their own, without strangers on the internet trying to teach them a lesson.

I actually had been thinking about children being left in hot cars, because there is research that it really can happen to anyone. It’s a working memory issue, as described in the article below from Consumer Reports. It’s the same reason why sometimes you might autopilot yourself to your work route when you needed to stop at the grocery store first (which I have done).

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...-hot-car-forgotten-baby-syndrome-a3901940661/

I first read about this when I was a new mom, getting on with 3 hours of sleep at night in 1.5 hour chunks. It scared me, because I knew the sleep deprivation would make me more susceptible to making mistakes like that.

But I think the side effect of knowing it could happen to me helped ensure that I never went into autopilot. It made me more vigilant than if I’d believed that of course I’d never ever leave my baby in the car. I literally reminded myself every time I got in the car with her, “You are sleep-deprived and forgetful. You must remember your baby is in the back.”

So I do think it can help to acknowledge that things like this don’t happen solely with bad, negligent parents. I think that might make people more vigilant in the future. It certainly did me.

And I acknowledge that the girl falling from the boat is probably not a result of a parent’s working memory failure! But it did remind me of the times when I’ve walked ahead of my daughter, sometimes literally talking to her over my shoulder but having to look ahead of me to be sure I don’t run into something, then look back again to see she’d managed to double-back maybe six-to-ten feet to look at something else. It made me more sympathetic to understanding how this could happen, even without outright negligence.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/ne...r&cvid=96737f3797cc4c84da74e7d923d34e02&ei=24

 

[JulieBeeRN]

It's a miracle that he was able to get to his daughter in time because I don't think that a 5 year old would have much time in the open ocean.

 

[RedHead0186]

Our servers weren't present when the medical emergency happened (at least they didn't say they were), but they were upset and concerned for one of their guests and shared that with us. So cast members/crew do talk to guests. Again, happy to testify this happened and isn't clout farming or being malicious. Maybe give people the benefit of the doubt?

Whatever happened on the Dream, it was for sure miraculous they survived.

I do give people the benefit of the doubt. But again, when there are opposing versions, I can't truly give everyone the benefit of the doubt because only one version can be true. It happened on the EBTA, and we saw it again with the Dream story.

I don't think people do it maliciously, but we do know that the human brain will do its best to fill in gaps when we're missing information. So while I didn't think people are being malicious, I also take information, especially secondhand information, with a grain of salt until I've got evidence to confirm.

 

[meremac]

It’s been mentioned previously, but I will bet the parents both feel plenty of shame and guilt all on their own, without strangers on the internet trying to teach them a lesson.

But it did remind me of the times when I’ve walked ahead of my daughter, sometimes literally talking to her over my shoulder but having to look ahead of me to be sure I don’t run into something, then look back again to see she’d managed to double-back maybe six-to-ten feet to look at something else. It made me more sympathetic to understanding how this could happen, even without outright negligence.

Yes and yes. My point exactly. I once was distracted in Target, helping my son tie his shoes. When I stood up, my daughter (then a toddler) was gone. It took me five minutes to find her, and it was the longest five minutes of my life. Should I have put her in the cart while helping my son? Should I at least have made her sit down next to him in full view? Yeah, probably. But I didn't. I was exhausted, and it was a momentary lapse. Does that make me a horrible parent and deserving of being "shamed" by strangers on the internet? Would that shame have taught me a lesson? No it didn't make me a horrible parent, and no it would absolutely not have helped to be ridiculed by others because I felt bad enough myself as it was. My point yesterday was that, before we even knew what had happened, people were calling for that dad's head. And we STILL don't really know all of the details. Allowing this to serve as a safety reminder is one thing. Getting all up in their business and judging them is another. Sometimes the best thing we can do (especially in situations like this where it really has nothing to do with any of us) is to give grace and move on. Nobody's perfect, even though some people sure seem to think they are...until it happens to them.

 

[JetsettingDopey]

You should delete this comment. You are speculating as to the reason for this incident based on what appears to be an unverified Reddit post. This is borderline libel.

Additionally, Disney does not have the duty nor ability to act as a pseudo CPS entity.

This. So much this.

 

[JetsettingDopey]

Nobody's perfect, even though some people sure seem to think they are...until it happens to them.

Amen.

 

[mjkacmom]

It’s been mentioned previously, but I will bet the parents both feel plenty of shame and guilt all on their own, without strangers on the internet trying to teach them a lesson.

I actually had been thinking about children being left in hot cars, because there is research that it really can happen to anyone. It’s a working memory issue, as described in the article below from Consumer Reports. It’s the same reason why sometimes you might autopilot yourself to your work route when you needed to stop at the grocery store first (which I have done).

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...-hot-car-forgotten-baby-syndrome-a3901940661/

I first read about this when I was a new mom, getting on with 3 hours of sleep at night in 1.5 hour chunks. It scared me, because I knew the sleep deprivation would make me more susceptible to making mistakes like that.

But I think the side effect of knowing it could happen to me helped ensure that I never went into autopilot. It made me more vigilant than if I’d believed that of course I’d never ever leave my baby in the car. I literally reminded myself every time I got in the car with her, “You are sleep-deprived and forgetful. You must remember your baby is in the back.”

So I do think it can help to acknowledge that things like this don’t happen solely with bad, negligent parents. I think that might make people more vigilant in the future. It certainly did me.

And I acknowledge that the girl falling from the boat is probably not a result of a parent’s working memory failure! But it did remind me of the times when I’ve walked ahead of my daughter, sometimes literally talking to her over my shoulder but having to look ahead of me to be sure I don’t run into something, then look back again to see she’d managed to double-back maybe six-to-ten feet to look at something else. It made me more sympathetic to understanding how this could happen, even without outright negligence.

The most dangerous parents are those who think it can’t happen to them, kind of mental self preservation. Me? My kids are adults, but if I’m blessed with grandkids, I’m paying my purse in the back seat just in case after educating myself from reading these articles.

 

[KVH]

I think "they" should just up and blame gravity. After all, that's REALLY why she fell . . .

 

[SuzErwin]

I do give people the benefit of the doubt. But again, when there are opposing versions, I can't truly give everyone the benefit of the doubt because only one version can be true. It happened on the EBTA, and we saw it again with the Dream story.

I don't think people do it maliciously, but we do know that the human brain will do its best to fill in gaps when we're missing information. So while I didn't think people are being malicious, I also take information, especially secondhand information, with a grain of salt until I've got evidence to confirm.

What is objectionable is not waiting for confirmation, but accusing people of deliberately lying about conversations

As for the Dream, I doubt we’ll ever have the whole story. The one unassailable fact is that a horrible tragedy was averted, with heartfelt congratulations to the crew for a successful rescue.

 

[RedHead0186]

What is objectionable is not waiting for confirmation, but accusing people of deliberately lying about conversations

As for the Dream, I doubt we’ll ever have the whole story. The one unassailable fact is that a horrible tragedy was averted, with heartfelt congratulations to the crew for a successful rescue.

I never accused anyone of deliberately lying. And I did wait for confirmation when I was on the cruise. I unfortunately never got any, just conflicting versions.