Is anyone annoyed about Disney's vacation club building?

[Mickey'sApprentice]

One thing you have to factor in is that the DVC program is systematically reducing the number of cash guests that visit WDW. DVC probably isn't creating many new Walt Disney World fans--it is best suited to people who already make regular trips to WDW and pay cash to stay in Disney's on-site resorts. All thing being equal, the steady growth in DVC membership would lead to a steady decline in cash bookings. One logical approach to addressing the lower occupancy is to convert cash rooms to DVC. And, as others have pointed out, cash guests can book the DVC rooms if they wish to do so.

As new DVC members, we are treating my sister and her family to 5 days in a 2 Bdrm Villa at Boardwalk early next year. We will also be renting 2 rooms in a value/moderate on each end.

Doesn't exposing new people to Disney have the potential of increasing non-DVC visitors? I hear about people asking family and friends to Disney all the time.

I know I would have personally never even thought of such a thing before DVC.

 

[YoHo]

I find it hard to believe there is a large contigent of Americans that are ignorant of Disney and need to be asked to come along. Going to Disney World is a right of passage the same way Disneyland is out west.

Certainly word of mouth will help DVC sales, but not Attendence in general.

 

[pirateparrot]

I think it was a great thing and it was a shame that it failed. We took a lot of the classes, including the cooking classes, and they were great. How many times can you ride on Dumbo? For frequent visitors I thought it was a great thing. It didn't play well with the masses though. Too bad, IMO.

The interesting paradox to this is that DVC members who go all the time are probably the more likely audience for classes etc. It would be interesting to see how these classes would have fared if they were actively promoted to DVC members.

I am a DVC member and now take the time to do things that I would never have considered doing before because I know I am going back over and over and I don't have to see every attraction every time.

 

[pirateparrot]

100,000 members does seem like a lot ... isn't the average internest something like 300 points? So that's, 30,000,000 ... times the dues of roughly $4 ... $120 Million in annual revenues that continues to grow just seems like a wise investment ... especially considering these are dues only ... forget the capital outlay.

Remember though those revenues are not profits. They are for running the resort and maintenance etc. Legally they cannot ake a profit on the annual dues but Disney does get some type of management fee but I don't believe it is significant.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

I find it hard to believe there is a large contigent of Americans that are ignorant of Disney and need to be asked to come along. Going to Disney World is a right of passage the same way Disneyland is out west.

Certainly word of mouth will help DVC sales, but not Attendence in general.

Ouch! My college educated sister hasn't been to WDW since she was 7 (1973). Other members of my family have gone while at conventions and are not Disney fans at all. (My family really have no idea how to lighten up. (Hall of Pres favorite MK attraction, seriously).

Yes, my sister would have eventually taken the kids to WDW one week - off-property, with Universal, etc., no ADR's, expensive 2 or 3 day disney tickets, and cranky kids that haven't had naps. They would not have been pleased with the experience, and would have came back saying "Its just not worth the money and hassle."

I believe these are very common mistakes and observations to the non-disney initiated.

While being realistic, I do hope that the location and convenience of BWV will assist in converting DSis into being a little bit of a Disneyfile.

 

[dbm20th]

Remember though those revenues are not profits. They are for running the resort and maintenance etc. Legally they cannot ake a profit on the annual dues but Disney does get some type of management fee but I don't believe it is significant.

Disney get roughly $600 per member for dues a year. Whether the member come to Disney or not. If they acheive 175,000 members, which is more than likely considering the growth, they will receive 105 million a year guarenteed for those resorts. Now, consider the differences between those members and the "cash" customers. DVC resorts have half the house-keeping, because members do not have housekeeping services everyday like a resort does. They do not have a 24 hour fully manned booking service, so that cost is much smaller. My point is, they are cheaper to run, and still very profitable. Now, if they gain 55,000 new guests, and those guests average 25k per contract that is nearly 1.4 billion in contracts. Not a bad cash cow, if you ask me.

As far as the AP's are concerned, let me relay my story. This is our first year as members. We are going in November for 10 days, and purchased an AP because we plan on going back in January and October 2007. There would bo no way we could do that without DVC or the AP discount

 

[YoHo]

Yes, my sister would have eventually taken the kids to WDW one week - off-property, with Universal, etc., no ADR's, expensive 2 or 3 day disney tickets, and cranky kids that haven't had naps. They would not have been pleased with the experience, and would have came back saying "Its just not worth the money and hassle."

I believe these are very common mistakes and observations to the non-disney initiated.

While being realistic, I do hope that the location and convenience of BWV will assist in converting DSis into being a little bit of a Disneyfile.

You know, there are still thousands of people that go to Disneyworld and stay offsite right?

You know that for the first 25 years of it's existance MOST of DisneyWorld's guests stayed offsite and came back, many many times.

Even with everything you've stated, Disney is not worth the money and hassle, that's the biggest thing that's been done to ruin the place, that's why Disney's attendence didn't bounce back the way other vacation destinations did after 9/11.

Disney has made themselves into a place that is not worth the money. It used to be, that Disney was a place that was so worth the money, that people would save for multiple years just so they could go.

 

[drakethib]

You know, there are still thousands of people that go to Disneyworld and stay offsite right?

You know that for the first 25 years of it's existance MOST of DisneyWorld's guests stayed offsite and came back, many many times.

Even with everything you've stated, Disney is not worth the money and hassle, that's the biggest thing that's been done to ruin the place, that's why Disney's attendence didn't bounce back the way other vacation destinations did after 9/11.

Disney has made themselves into a place that is not worth the money. It used to be, that Disney was a place that was so worth the money, that people would save for multiple years just so they could go.

I feel that way about Las Vegas. If I never see that place again it will be to soon.

That is why I like Disney.

 

[SoCalKDG]

Even with everything you've stated, Disney is not worth the money and hassle, that's the biggest thing that's been done to ruin the place, that's why Disney's attendence didn't bounce back the way other vacation destinations did after 9/11.

Disney has made themselves into a place that is not worth the money. It used to be, that Disney was a place that was so worth the money, that people would save for multiple years just so they could go.

Do you just make this stuff up?

Disney is doing very well vs. other destinations. Hawaii has increased 14.9% since 2002 while WDW has increased 13.8%. International Travel to the U.S. increased 12.6%, Seattle increased 7.6%, while the Orlando Competition has actually dropped 2.8%. To be right up there with Hawaii and trouncing local area competition doesn't support your comments.

Disney isn't that expensive when you compare it to other vacations.

Just got back from a Carnival Cruise, Monday to Friday on the Paradise. It was $1350 for the 4 of us. But then we had $120 in tips, $110 in photos(I'll blame the wife on that one), and $180 in tours, purchases, and drinks, bringing the total to $1760 for the trip. No airfaire, 4 nights.

You can do the same at Disney for the same cost, including food. Pop Century with Meal Plan and tickets as low as $1600. I'll take that Disney vacation over the cruise every single time.

Funny how people can have $10,000 a year in car payments for two cars but can't afford a $1600 vacation. It only takes saving $25 a week for a Disney vacation.

 

[raidermatt]

Hawaii has been setting records for awhile now. Disney has not yet got back to their 2000 peak. Which is odd, as central Florida in general has set some records, while Universal has struggled.

Something's not adding up. Either that or Gatorland's attendance is up 1000-fold.

Funny how people can have $10,000 a year in car payments for two cars but can't afford a $1600 vacation. It only takes saving $25 a week for a Disney vacation.

Its all about priorities, and the cost of living where you live.

Your numbers also didn't include airfare and/or rental car, and of course merchandise/incidentals. Just looking at the cost side, WDW is very expensive as a family vacation destination. It's easier to save money in places like Hawaii, becuase once you get there, its easier to control the spending. Very few of the "attractions" cost as much as park tickets, and many are actually free.

Cruises aren't the greatest comparison as they are also very expensive, relatively speaking, and aren't viewed by nearly as many people as viable family vacation destinations.

 

[disneybride96]

I think it ruins the retro look of the contemporay.

Isn't that a double negative? (although true) The Contemporary looks retro?

 

[YoHo]

Not really, Contemporary is a style of archeticture. As is modern. The Resort is in the contemporary style. Spending a couple hours with HGTV will give you a good idea of how it works.

Granted, the Contemporary style is steeped in retro furniture as it was developed in the 50's and 60's, but truth be told, any updating of the Contemp thaat drastically changed it's look would be offensive to the style it was built in.

And SoCal, where are you getting your numbers? Matt is right, it hasn't returned to it's pre-2000 numbers while everywhere else has with change. The fact that they're growth is slightly higher doesn't help when they haven't even reached the neutral position yet.

 

[joshua121301]

Imagine for a moment that there are NOT 2000 DVC rooms on property. Where do all of those people stay? Cash resorts.

Right here in Pasadena.

 

[Viki]

Personally, I see DVC as a get rich quick scheme that will ultimatly hurt the resorts long term. The specific CR DVC that we've accidently been shown is terrible.

I've stayed at Old Key West too, so that won't work on me.


Disney should be investing in moves to get new guests, not advanced schemes to suck more money out of the fanatics. Cause lets face it, only a fanatc is going to buy into DVC.


.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never felt I could respond to this sort of thing before, but having just returned this evening from a four-night stay at a "regular," very popular, time share in the mountains of VA I can now say I can NOT imagine buying into any timeshare system OTHER than DVC.

Other than that, thank God I'm home!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dsnyfam]

I'm glad you liked it. I think the problem was that not enough people wanted to go to WDW and do the sorts of things you and your family enjoyed.

I understand this too. We have missed it. We just assumed it would always be there, and looked forward to trying other classes including the cooking ones. We were so sad when we returned, and heard it was closed one year! It seemed to happen suddenly, and even the cast members seemed shocked. It looked like a ghost town when we drove over there, and they were doing all kinds of work on the buildings (now we know why---SSR).

Could someone please advise about the Garden Wing rooms at the CR? Is there a special way to reserve these rooms or this area? Is there any area which is better than the other, or more recommended? I thought when you call to reserve at the CR, you automatically get put in the monorail section.

SoCalKDG--you brought up some great points about a disney vacation over others. Yet, Disney is much more expensive than other destinations around the globe. I agree with you about hidden costs on things like cruises. The "extra" costs you mentioned are never factored in by most before taking a cruise, etc. I would rather spend the money at Disney anytime--especially using your strategy ($25 per week!). IMHO, Disney just offers much more BANG for your buck.

We would never even consider a time share, other than WDW. They just seem cheesy (after attending a seminar or two). We loved the WDW timeshare/DVC tour, but could not afford to purchase one at the time (about 10K initially). Maybe in the future. Any tips on how to best do this?

 

[YoHo]

I don't think SoCal said much, First of all, aside from Tips, all of those same expenses can occur at Disney World. Nobody makes you buy additional tours and nobody makes you buy drinks on the cruise. In fact, the cruise is feeding you better.

And of course, You didn't specify which Cabin type you were in, Poop Century equates to steerage on a cruiseline.

Last but not least, With a little effort on the Internets, I can book mexican Riv cruises for less then $500 a person. I dare you to do a 4 day Disney vacation without Airfare for $500 a person.

 

[SoCalKDG]

Hawaii has been setting records for awhile now. Disney has not yet got back to their 2000 peak. Which is odd, as central Florida in general has set some records, while Universal has struggled .

that's why Disney's attendence didn't bounce back the way other vacation destinations did after 9/11.

The low attendance was the first year after 9/11, which was 2002. International Travel to the U.S. as well as travel to WDW were hit the hardest. Here is the increases(or decreases) from the low year of 2002 to the last recorded year, 2005.

Hawaii(Hawaii.gov)
2002 – 6.45 million
2005 – 7.41 million 14.9% increase

WDW(Amusement Business)
2002 – 37.6 million
2005 – 42.8 million 13.8% increase

International Travel to U.S.
2002 – 43.6 million
2005 – 49.1 million 12.6% increase

Seattle(seeseattle.org)
8.45 million in 2002
9.1 million in 2005 7.6% increase

Total Orlando Competition(Amusement Business)
2002 – 18 million
2005 – 17.5 million 2.8% decrease

Your numbers also didn't include airfare and/or rental car, and of course merchandise/incidentals. Just looking at the cost side, WDW is very expensive as a family vacation destination. It's easier to save money in places like Hawaii, because once you get there, its easier to control the spending. Very few of the "attractions" cost as much as park tickets, and many are actually free.

Saving money in Hawaii, ha ha. One person on average spends $1500 for a trip to Hawaii as 7.41 million people spent over 11 billion. Four people brings that total to $6000.

Cruises aren't the greatest comparison as they are also very expensive, relatively speaking, and aren't viewed by nearly as many people as viable family vacation destinations.

Last but not least, With a little effort on the Internets, I can book mexican Riv cruises for less then $500 a person.

So which is it. Are cruises expensive, or are they cheap? The two of you always agree. Now your at opposite ends.

Now raidermatt says not many people view a cruise as a viable vacation destination. That may have been true at one time, but not today. Cruising(Cruising.org) in 2005 had 11 million world wide, with over 9 million just in North America. More than Hawaii by a huge margin.

I don't think SoCal said much, First of all, aside from Tips, all of those same expenses can occur at Disney World. Nobody makes you buy additional tours and nobody makes you buy drinks on the cruise. In fact, the cruise is feeding you better.

And of course, You didn't specify which Cabin type you were in, Poop Century equates to steerage on a cruiseline.

Last but not least, With a little effort on the Internets, I can book mexican Riv cruises for less then $500 a person. I dare you to do a 4 day Disney vacation without Airfare for $500 a person.

First, glad you don't think I said much. Speaks volumes. Now I'll take that dare(actually my wifes best friend just did in Sept).

Your right, $500 per person for a cruise. That’s as cheap as it gets. Early Dec. on Royal Caribbean. So $2000 for 4 people. Add in tips of $70 per person we are up to $2280. Very good price. Much cheaper than Hawaii. Good food, yes. Then again eating around the World Showcase is just as good and you can do that with the eat for free promotions starting at $1650(offered the past two months) for 4 people.

Now you don’t want to do any tours on your cruise to keep your cost down. That’s ok. Glass bottom boat in Cabo would have been nice. Bus tour through Puerto Vallarta is fun, but nope, can’t do that either. You said all are optional, thus we have to skip to keep the cost down. Guess I'll buy trinkets at the stores and sit in the sun on the boat(can't swim as the water is freezing, they really need to start heating those pools somehow).

So we have a no tours vacation for $2280 vs. a 4 parks vacation for $1650 to choose from, hmm, which is better here(obviously since WDW is so bad you probably choose the no tours vacation. ). Personally both can be fun, but a couple tours is really required on the cruise to have it compare to WDW, thus the price jumps to around $2600. Still a good deal, but then WDW can be as well.

 

[Another Voice]

WDW(Amusement Business)
2002 – 37.6 million
2005 – 42.8 million 13.8% increase

Sorry, you can't simply add the guesses for each park. What you're measuring is park-days: one visitor going to one park for one day. Most guests go to multiple parks during their stay. You need to find the stats on the number of visitors to the property - a number Disney isn't likely to give out.

Things get worse when you try to use these numbers for "growth". In your method each "new" visitor is double, triple or quadruple counted depending on how many parks they visit during their trip.

The number your quoted for other destinations are more in line - the number of visitors making one trip to the destination. Assuming that the average visitor to Hawai's spends five days (I'm guessing at that number) - in your method there would be over 37 million trying to surf and eating poi.

 

[SoCalKDG]

Sorry, you can't simply add the guesses for each park. What you're measuring is park-days: one visitor going to one park for one day. Most guests go to multiple parks during their stay. You need to find the stats on the number of visitors to the property - a number Disney isn't likely to give out.

Things get worse when you try to use these numbers for "growth". In your method each "new" visitor is double, triple or quadruple counted depending on how many parks they visit during their trip.

The number your quoted for other destinations are more in line - the number of visitors making one trip to the destination. Assuming that the average visitor to Hawai's spends five days (I'm guessing at that number) - in your method there would be over 37 million trying to surf and eating poi.

Funny how those same numbers are used in the media and by people on these boards to judge attendance everyday.

International visitors to the U.S. can vary from 1 day to 1000. Seattle was overnight guests. Hawaii was visits with vacations ranging from 1 to 1000. For cruisers it was the number of cruises, from 3 to 100 days.

All we are caring about is the % increase from one year to the next and making sure we compare the same number. If in one year we had 34.5 million eating poi and three years later had 37 million eating poi I'm still getting the same % increase. Obviously the taste of poi and health benefits could have some affect, but then again comparing a visit to the MK and eating poi isn't the same thing.

For this casual discussion all parties have been using this info. Maybe the best indicator would be total money spent in 2002 at a destination and total money spent in 2005.

 

[Dsnyfam]

SoCal...I definitely recall DISNEY officials (suits) publicly stating the numbers in attendance being down after 911. Of course, I would not think anyone would be stunned by this information--but some choose to either ignore or refute it.

I recall our visits post 911, and how we were nearly strip-searched at Sea World when one person in our party had a CW (he's an ATF agent and always carries one of those pouches with a handgun). They completely over-reacted and pulled our entire party of 9 aside without any words, including all our children. They personally searched and scrutinized each and every one of us, before permitting us to wait by the side of the security main entrance.

They finally brought out two armed supervisor security personnel and escorted the said ATF agent/park guest to a locker area somewhere--where he secured his weapon for the day. He joked about them blindfolding them, but they stopped just short of such a tactic. It was weird, and a bit scary. News of these types of searches and delays probably kept some people from even visiting, just as it does flying.

But, with cost being the real issue. I must agree with you. Most all of our friends believe Disney World is terribly overpriced. They would much rather visit another destination for the cost. They can not see past the park admission, hotel fees and food costs. They can not see paying such an amount just to play in an amusement park with a couple of mice, when they could visit the nations capital and glean some history from the trip. I say you can do the same at WDW, at the American Adventure in our own pavillion in Epcot!

Yet, when you truly add these up and compare the "overall experience" with any other destination---WDW wins again and again (IMHO). I think WDW has something for everyone. We have had some of the best experiences in Disney, which is why we return repeatedly. I think the money is well spent on memories and great experiences. Sure, the food is expensive---but it's all part of the environment, the magic. We feel good when we spend our money in the kingdom. We work hard to save it, and enjoy being able to spend it without stressing about it. It gives us both a sense of satisfaction and fullfillment. Of course, not everyone works the same strategy. But, to my DH and myself--and our collective Disney friends, worrying about money while at WDW is the last thing we want to do!