Is anyone annoyed about Disney's vacation club building?

[barreloflaughs]

Thats unfair. The Disney Institute is not the same as closing a regular resort. It was a stupid idea that failed. Who the heck goes to Disney to take cooking classes?

Not really unfair. The Disney Institute took over the lodgings previously known as the Village Resort. Rather that converting the property to DVC Disney could've returned those lodgings to the regular pool of the cash rooms after the Institute removed itself from the premises.

By the way, I'm pretty sure that the Disney Institute still exists in some form or another. Not sure about the cooking lessons.

barrel

 

[MrsNick]

I may agree that the decor at the values is tacky, but what is tacky to one is Disney to another.

What is DVC to one (OKW) is just a condo to someone else. To others, DVC is more well represented by BCV.

To me, I have never had a desire to stay at the Contemporary, and apparently, I'm not the only one (as other posters mentioned the lack of occupancy in the garden wings). To me, the Contemporary is pretty unattractive. To others, it's classic Disney. I can respect that.

But regardless of personal tastes, if the garden wings at the Contemporary are regularly devoid of cash guests, then it makes sense from a business standpoint (imho) for them to convert a wing to DVC. Disney knows that there is already a substantial portion of the existing DVC membership that would immediately buy in to a Contemporary DVC. Therefore, they are going to change a wing from cash rooms which are empty, and therefore don't generate revenue, to rooms which will be bought and occupied. So, they will make money on rooms which currently don't make money. JMO.

 

[dbm20th]

The simply fact is this. DVC equals more cash rooms. Not less. And I am sorry, but if the DI being removed for SSR is your only example, that's not a good one. For one thing, I would be willing to bet that when SSR is done, it will be much large then DI.

Someone will need to check my memory, but BCV, VWL and BWV were all built seperate to the hotel, or at least they did not remove cash rooms to make them. OKW, was seperate all together. So now you have gained 2 huge resorts in SSR and OKW, as well as family sized rooms in the others, something there was precious little of before DVC. When this CR project is done, it will be FAR larger then the old hideous wing. After a couple of years of DVC crush, you too will be able to book there, thus making MORE cash options on the monrail, not less.

So yes, Disney is absolutely guilty of trying to reel people in to going more often then before, even if it means paying slightly less for a hotel room. But like the others before me, I am now able to go 3 times in the next year. 3 times! That was a near impossibilty before. And to boot, I am able to get my parents, and my brothers family to a deluxe resort for less then the cost of a value. Some how, I don't think that all the spin in the world would ever convince me that this is somehow a bad thing.

As far as the tacky nature of the values go. They are certainly over-the-top, but for me and my family staying somewhere else, who cares?

 

[barreloflaughs]

....am now able to go 3 times in the next year. 3 times!

As far as the tacky nature of the values go. They are certainly over-the-top, but for me and my family staying somewhere else, who cares?

You aren't staying somewhere else. You are staying at Walt Disney World. And I care because the trend toward the building of cheap, unimaginative junk saddens me. Among other reasons, it saddens me because I used to want to go three times a year. Now we find our interest waning because the Disney Difference is rapidly fading.


barrel

 

[Dsnyfam]

This topic makes me think of the "golden passport" thread (where someone got a gold ticket to bypass lines). This would be feasible in Disneyland, as they only have a few hotels that are Disney brand. The other ones on the "row" which are not Disney could not participate.

Since Walt Disneyworld has over-expanded, and built too many hotels, they can not offer a front of the line access like U-studios or Disneyland could.

ITA with the poster above (Barrel) about the loss of desire. We used to want to go to Disney all the time--but have found the interest waning too. It's for much of the same reason. I remember when DTD was small, with no West side, etc. It was much nicer then.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

I agree. The resorts have been very "un-busy" the last several times we've been to WDW. Crowds are not all that impressive either. Profits must be good but it doesn't seem like it's because more people are going. We've never had a problem getting a room either at a regular resort or at a DVC resort. The 11 month window/7 month window thing is unnecessary now. We've booked two bedroom villa's 4 days in advance.

It really does depend on when you go and how flexible you are with your planning. I've had similar experiences and also had problems booking 4 months out...

 

[tjkraz]

Thats unfair. The Disney Institute is not the same as closing a regular resort. It was a stupid idea that failed. Who the heck goes to Disney to take cooking classes?

As someone else pointed out, it was the Disney Village before it was the Disney Institute. Besides, you didn't need to take a cooking class to stay there.

And what is wrong with having enough rooms on property to get discounts. They fill them up or get close during the major seasons and we can get discounted rates "off season". I don't understand why this is bad.

If you're a consumer--nothing. If you're Disney--it's an unnecessary expense.

Look, I never said that WDW would ever be at a point where they had zero vacancies. All I said was that all things being equal, the growth in DVC membership does impact the cash resorts and they have to compensate in other ways to replace those customers. That's it.

Personally I think the further replacement of cash rooms with DVC (CR, ALK, etc.) is inevitable. I'm not saying they are going to turn the Poly into a DVC resort. It's going to be bits and pieces here and there as is the case with roughly 250 rooms at the CR that may fall victim to the wrecking ball.

DVC is a very popular concept and its resort growth appears limitless at this stage. IMO, it just doesn't make sense to continue to construct new DVC resorts / rooms while allowing thousands of cash rooms to go unused each day. The phase-out of select cash rooms began with the DI and will continue elsewhere.

 

[tjkraz]

If that were the case then plenty of DVC owners like me wouldn't vacation at WDW every year like we do now... There's arguments on both sides of the coin, but what I can tell you from my personal experience/financial situation and my conversations with numerous other DVCers out there is that the DVC gives us the ability to afford a vacation every year at WDW at the likes of hotels similar to WL, BW, YBC, etc.

The way the hotel rates have gone up from when we first purchased our DVC points in 1996 there's no way on earth we'd be able to afford a 7-10 day WDW trip annually. Financing our DVC purchase, coupled with some tax relief and the ability to write-off property taxes made "owning" an interest in DVC that much more appealing.

If we didn't own DVC points, we'd get down every 3 years or so. Our trip prior to 1996 was 1993 and 1989 before that... From my estimation, WDW *gains* my DVC business annually as opposed to seeing it every 3-4 years on a cash basis.

Stories can be spun both ways.

I believe the comments of mine that you quoted were taken out of context. I'm a member myself and don't disagree with anything you've said.

 

[Dsnyfam]

It really does depend on when you go and how flexible you are with your planning. I've had similar experiences and also had problems booking 4 months out...

Hi Matt,
I am new to this, and I know this is not on topic..but how do you like DVC? I noticed you have been a member since 1996. How long does a membership last? I have heard people can "rent" one by purchasing points from someplace, to see if they like it. We have seen the models at the boardwalk, and would like to try one somewhere. Where do we look to get these points? Thanks. Sorry for the OT post.

 

[MJMcBride]

As someone else pointed out, it was the Disney Village before it was the Disney Institute. Besides, you didn't need to take a cooking class to stay there.

I know that. But the point of the DI was offering all sorts of stuff (like various classes). Nobody cared. The vast majority of people go to Disney for the rides, so it failed.

And as long as there are plenty of rooms, I'm fine. I don't care if they replace "cash" rooms. They may have to. Like I said, you can still stay there. I stayed at OKW w/o being a DVC member. So more DVC rooms can be more cash rooms.

 

[tjkraz]

The simply fact is this. DVC equals more cash rooms. Not less. And I am sorry, but if the DI being removed for SSR is your only example, that's not a good one. For one thing, I would be willing to bet that when SSR is done, it will be much large then DI.

Sure it's a good one. Two reasons:

1. Only a tiny fraction of guest rooms at DVC resorts are available to the public. CRO only has access to DVC rooms when DVC member uses his/her points to book outside of the 7 DVC resorts. Those points are turned into DVC rooms which are made available to the general public.

Just because SSR will have 800+ rooms when complete doesn't mean that 800+ rooms are accessible by the teneral public. It's only a very, very small percentage of that number available for any given travel date.

2. DVC members pay ALL of the operating costs of the resort. Disney doesn't even pay "dues" on the points they own--all of it is passed on to you and me. When a room at SSR or OKW sits empty for a night, it costs Disney absolutely nothing. When a room at CR or CSR sits empty, Disney still has charges for property taxes, utilities, depreciation, maintenance budgets, etc.

So yes, Disney is absolutely guilty of trying to reel people in to going more often then before, even if it means paying slightly less for a hotel room. But like the others before me, I am now able to go 3 times in the next year. 3 times! That was a near impossibilty before. And to boot, I am able to get my parents, and my brothers family to a deluxe resort for less then the cost of a value. Some how, I don't think that all the spin in the world would ever convince me that this is somehow a bad thing.

For about the 8th time, I never said that DVC didn't have its benefits. DVC is a very, very profitable venture for Disney, and not just because of the amount they get for selling points.

The original statement I made to which you objected was that every time DVC gains an owner / member, the cash resorts lose a customer. That's it.

I'm well aware of the financial benefit of DVC ownership.

 

[Dsnyfam]

I know that. But the point of the DI was offering all sorts of stuff (like various classes). Nobody cared. The vast majority of people go to Disney for the rides, so it failed.

And as long as there are plenty of rooms, I'm fine. I don't care if they replace "cash" rooms. They may have to. Like I said, you can still stay there. I stayed at OKW w/o being a DVC member. So more DVC rooms can be more cash rooms.

I remember the DI fondly. Our family took part in the classes one visit, and had a great time. The kids especially enjoyed the children's classes, and had their faces painted after they went out on a nature canoe trip (which included looking at alligator nests!). It was expensive if I remember right, but included a cab ride from our hotel to the DI and back. They gave us a voucher at the BWI desk, and then we used it for the return as well. We tipped, but otherwise it was free. I was sad when it closed, and never understood the full reasoning behind it. It was a lovely place.

 

[MJMcBride]

Just because SSR will have 800+ rooms when complete doesn't mean that 800+ rooms are accessible by the teneral public. It's only a very, very small percentage of that number available for any given travel date.

So what?

 

[MJMcBride]

I remember the DI fondly. Our family took part in the classes one visit, and had a great time. The kids especially enjoyed the children's classes, and had their faces painted after they went out on a nature canoe trip (which included looking at alligator nests!). It was expensive if I remember right, but included a cab ride from our hotel to the DI and back. They gave us a voucher at the BWI desk, and then we used it for the return as well. We tipped, but otherwise it was free. I was sad when it closed, and never understood the full reasoning behind it. It was a lovely place.

I'm glad you liked it. I think the problem was that not enough people wanted to go to WDW and do the sorts of things you and your family enjoyed.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

I believe the comments of mine that you quoted were taken out of context. I'm a member myself and don't disagree with anything you've said.

You're right - shame on me for not reading all the posts prior to clicking on that "quote" button.

I guess my whole point was that WDW looks at revenue from the Theme Parks and Resorts as a whole so whether they get my money from hotel stays vs. park tickets vs. dinners vs. souvenirs is irrelavent to them so long as they GET my money....

 

[cmbsmom]

The bottom line is there are some people that like staying at the garden wings at CR for it's "value" and proximity to MK. Apparently there are not enough of them to make it a viable ongoing concept for Disney. In fact, it's location should make it arguably the most valuable of all MK resort locations.
If you had chosen not to stay there in the past, then you've answered your own question. I have stayed in the North Garden Wing and truthfully prefer it over WL because of location and monorail access.

The GW is our favorite place to stay. It is out of the noise of the monorail, no waits for the elevator, close trip to the pool and the restaurants are all very close. I hope we can still get our rooms there.

 

[jdg345]

WDW hasn't been able to keep the rooms filled at the CR for years--which is why they rented an entire wing to SoG, and are now (hypothetically) going to convert a wing to DVC.

If the rooms were always full, they wouldn't even be looking at the CR for DVC. No "cash guests" are being shut out, as the resort almost always has plenty of availability in the wing rooms.

Anne

What is SoG ?

 

[jdg345]

First let me say I am a DVC owner. I am glad Disney is recognizing that its DVC owners are repeat customers as Im sure many on the DIS are, owners or not. But Disney is a business and they have to operate like one to keep going. So it doesnt surprise me that they will continue to add DVC rooms. But bear in mind that there are roughly only 100,000 members of DVC right now. We do have some small effect on $$s coming into their business, but not as much as those who dont own, especially those who make numerous trips a year. And that to me is the key to them adding on to the DVC family, members and rooms. DVCers in general go at least twice a year. They know how much we travel to WDW, how much we spend, etc.

Personally, DVC has allowed my family to stay at places we probably wouldnt have otherwise. We own at VWL, but have enjoyed stays at OKW, SSR and BCV. It has enhanced our experiences at WDW so much. I can appreciate where you are coming from and somewhat understand, but WDW will never become a complete DVC resort.

100,000 members does seem like a lot ... isn't the average internest something like 300 points? So that's, 30,000,000 ... times the dues of roughly $4 ... $120 Million in annual revenues that continues to grow just seems like a wise investment ... especially considering these are dues only ... forget the capital outlay.

 

[jdg345]

Personally, I see DVC as a get rich quick scheme that will ultimatly hurt the resorts long term. The specific CR DVC that we've accidently been shown is terrible.

I've stayed at Old Key West too, so that won't work on me.


Disney should be investing in moves to get new guests, not advanced schemes to suck more money out of the fanatics. Cause lets face it, only a fanatc is going to buy into DVC.


And does anyone have any proof that Contemporary was having problems booking rooms? I thought they loaned out the rooms to shades of green during a remodel. People staying at shades sure weren't going to stay at a resort rated below their's.

All information I've EVER heard is that the Deluxes with the exception of AKL are still maintaining the best occupancy rates, Mods are the worst, because all he people that used to book mods now book Value.

Aren't the DVC Resorts considered Deluxe? As far as a 'fanatic only' club ... while there are plenty of members that go 2,3,4 and 5 times a year, there are also many that go once a year (or once every two years) ... not sure what's fanatical about that?

Of course, the fact that we're all here, on the Internet, on a Disney Forum, discussing the topic at hand might lump us all into the 'fanatic' group.

 

[jdg345]

dbm20th,

You mention that DVC has caused more APs to be purchased. What makes you think Disney wants to sell more APs?

Don't more APs mean less money in Disney's pocket for each individual ticket?

Disney is activly trying to discourage AP holders in California.

Aren't AP's cheaper in CA?

AP's are like the MYW hoppers where the longer you stay, the cheaper it is. Disney knows that if you have an AP or a MYW 10-day hopper, you're more likely to go to a WDW Park rather than go to something like Universal or IOA or Sea World. And they also figure that in the parks, people are going to spend money on food, souvenirs, etc.

Another way to look at it is like this ... you've been at WDW for 3 days ... it's 5pm ... you're wondering what to do this evening ... there's a fireworks show at 9pm ... if you don't have AP's, you're probably not going to want to waste a Park Day for a fireworks show (much less $67). The AP gets you to the show for free ... and while you're there, you'll probably get somthing to eat, or drink, or both ... Disney wants your dollars, and by keeping you in the parks for 'bargain prices', it keeps you spending your dollars at Disney rather than going to Universal or IOA and spending your money there.

imo, of course.