Iraq: Sunni Arabs Reject Vote

dcentity2000

<font color=red>Simba Cub<br><font color=green>Is
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
10,057
SO not cool:

Iraq's main Sunni Arab political alliance has rejected the partial results of last week's parliamentary election in Baghdad province.

The Iraqi Accord Front threatened to block the creation of a new government if the result was not changed.

...

The three main Sunni Arab parties that make up the Iraqi Accord Front said the election in Baghdad had been rigged and demanded that Iraq's electoral commission order a new vote.

"We reject these results announced by the commission," said Adnan al-Dulaimi, one of the leaders of the front.

"If the commission does not take steps to restore justice to other lists, we will demand a new election be held."
Source: BBC Newshttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4545148.stm



Rich::
 
Why does that not surprise me? If it (the vote) doesn't go towards them then they are going to block the creation of the government. And if it goes towards them, then one of the others will block and so on, and so on...blah, blah, blah.
 
Ouch. I fear that is the end of hope that this venture can succeed in any foreseeable timeframe
 
I've always thought that the 3 groups will not be happy unless they have their own provinces. I liken it to trying to keep Yugoslavia together after the fall of communism. I think it will take a miracle to form a government they all can agree on.
 

I think you are right eclectics. The problem with instituting democracy is that it requires not only the acceptance of majority will but the protection of minority rights. That is what is not appreciated. Here you can support the losing slate secure in the knowledge that you will not lose your job, be arrested executed or in any way marginalized by the loss. Plus, there are plenty of mechanisms that grant minorities influence in legislation, etc. Thus, you wait ill the next election - political power is not winner takes all.

That is not necessarily the reality in Iraq.

The Sunnis are acting perfectly rationally. As a group, they have little claim for sympathy (though individual circumstances certainly vary widely) in that they oppressed the Shia and the Kurds (who are actually largely Sunni but still treated as an ethnic minority) for years. Sunnis have been traditionally dominant in the Arab world, both in polities where they were the majority and in those where they are the minority, like Iraq. The Shia want majority power now, and you can't argue that they are not deserving. But if they use it to settle scores, even to a limited extent, expect the Sunnis to fight all the way. Though they are the minority, they were the Republican Guard, and have far greater military training (and weapons caches). Though it may be rough justice, at least on a group level, don't expect the Sunnis to accept minority status if it means oppression. The only way they will accept a majority elected central government in Iraq is of they know they will be protected and allowed to prosper. That's the challenge
 
sodaseller said:
I think you are right eclectics. The problem with instituting democracy is that it requires not only the acceptance of majority will but the protection of minority rights. That is what is not appreciated. Here you can support the losing slate secure in the knowledge that you will not lose your job, be arrested executed or in any way marginalized by the loss. Plus, there are plenty of mechanisms that grant minorities influence in legislation, etc. Thus, you wait ill the next election - political power is not winner takes all.

That is not necessarily the reality in Iraq.

The Sunnis are acting perfectly rationally. As a group, they have little claim for sympathy (though individual circumstances certainly vary widely) in that they oppressed the Shia and the Kurds (who are actually largely Sunni but still treated as an ethnic minority) for years. Sunnis have been traditionally dominant in the Arab world, both in polities where they were the majority and in those where they are the minority, like Iraq. The Shia want majority power now, and you can't argue that they are not deserving. But if they use it to settle scores, even to a limited extent, expect the Sunnis to fight all the way. Though they are the minority, they were the Republican Guard, and have far greater military training (and weapons caches). Though it may be rough justice, at least on a group level, don't expect the Sunnis to accept minority status if it means oppression. The only way they will accept a majority elected central government in Iraq is of they know they will be protected and allowed to prosper. That's the challenge

Yet again, you manage to take the words right out of my mouth! How do you do that? :goodvibes
 
You often beat me with my thoughts, usually stated more eloquently! Thanks for the nice words
 
eclectics said:
I've always thought that the 3 groups will not be happy unless they have their own provinces. I liken it to trying to keep Yugoslavia together after the fall of communism. I think it will take a miracle to form a government they all can agree on.
I believe that is what they want, but the UN does not want to see a divided Iraq. This is a problem then for Turkey who has a Kurdish population that wants to leave Turkey (with the land) and join with the Iraq Kurds. Also, the Kurds and ****es have the oil, the center (Sunni) is devoid of iol.
 
mickeyfan2 said:
I believe that is what they want, but the UN does not want to see a divided Iraq. This is a problem then for Turkey who has a Kurdish population that wants to leave Turkey (with the land) and join with the Iraq Kurds. Also, the Kurds and ****es have the oil, the center (Sunni) is devoid of iol.

And I don't understand why this apparantly is coming as some big surprise to us. Just what exactly did we expect? I get the feeling we are closing our eyes and just hoping for the best. What a plan!
 
eclectics said:
And I don't understand why this apparantly is coming as some big surprise to us. Just what exactly did we expect? I get the feeling we are closing our eyes and just hoping for the best. What a plan!
It is no surprise. I never said that. I do have arab friends who were born in the middle east, so I keep up on middle east politics from them and the arab news (via them). I believe we would let the division happen, but are trying not to PO the UN. The UN wants a united Iraq.
 
mickeyfan2 said:
It is no surprise. I never said that. I do have arab friends who were born in the middle east, so I keep up on middle east politics from them and the arab news (via them). I believe we would let the division happen, but are trying not to PO the UN. The UN wants a united Iraq.

Also, the Turks do not want a separate country for the Kurds. They believe it would lead to problems with the Kurds in Turkey.
 
sodaseller said:
You often beat me with my thoughts, usually stated more eloquently! Thanks for the nice words

I just am imagining BelleMcNally beating you with your own thoughts. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but thoughts will never hurt me!!!" :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :banana: :banana:
 
mickeyfan2 said:
It is no surprise. I never said that. I do have arab friends who were born in the middle east, so I keep up on middle east politics from them and the arab news (via them). I believe we would let the division happen, but are trying not to PO the UN. The UN wants a united Iraq.

By "us", I didn't mean you. I meant the planners. Sorry for the misunderstanding. So you believe we want the division? This administration hates the UN and I can't see it doing something it doesn't want to do just for the UN's benefit.
 
Seems to me we have politicians claiming fraud during every single election in this country. I could probably substitute a Jesse Jackson quote with the Sunni leader and you wouldn't know who said it. Maybe we should just wait and see what happens before you declare democracy dead in Iraq. Give the people a chance. It took us over a decade to establish a working government. I mean, give the people at least more than a year before you shout defeat.
 
eclectics said:
By "us", I didn't mean you. I meant the planners. Sorry for the misunderstanding. So you believe we want the division? This administration hates the UN and I can't see it doing something it doesn't want to do just for the UN's benefit.
Actually yes, but Turkey does not want the division and we have a very good relations with them. Turkey was the first country in that area to recognize Isreal and has close ties with the Mousad (sp?). Turkey has a large Kurdish population on the Iraq border that wants to make a country with the Iraq Kurds. This is well know in the UN and the European countries try to keep Turkey (the buffer country) happy. As a matter of fact, Turkey has been voted into the European Union just a month or two ago. So there is much involved in that decision. So yes we are keeping the UN and Turkey happy.
 
It took Turkey about 70 years from the time it became a democracy until it was considered a stable democracy. I'm sure there were those who declared Turkish democracy dead at the begining too.
 
mickeyfan2 said:
It took Turkey about 70 years from the time it became a democracy until it was considered a stable democracy. I'm sure there were those who declared Turkish democracy dead at the begining too.
Valid point as far as it goes, but there's no Kemal Ataturk here (or even a Nelson Mandela), nor crumbling Ottoman Empire, nor deication to separation of mosque and State
 


Disney Vacation Planning. Free. Done for You.
Our Authorized Disney Vacation Planners are here to provide personalized, expert advice, answer every question, and uncover the best discounts. Let Dreams Unlimited Travel take care of all the details, so you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a stress-free vacation.
Start Your Disney Vacation
Disney EarMarked Producer






DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Add as a preferred source on Google

Back
Top Bottom