International Baccalaureate (IB) program

[Neesy228]

Is anyone familiar with the IB program? Do you have students in it or other personal experience? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Our high school is about to introduce this program for 2017-18 school year. We already have a wide variety of AP course offerings available and I'm trying to determine the reasoning/benefit behind introducing this diploma option. Is one option more beneficial than the other?

My sons will be in their junior and freshman year this fall. My oldest is already in a couple AP classes, but I'm not sure he would want to move into a different program (or if he could) at this point. He's pretty happy as things are. So, I guess my primary interest is how this may impact my younger son.

In my reading, I also see that AP is now offering a diploma program too. So, I'm wondering if this is the way high school is moving now? In order to be competitive in college admissions, will these new diploma programs become the norm?

I appreciate the help in trying to sort this out. I feel like I'm missing something since the AP offerings and the IB program seem to overlap a fair amount.

 

[diznygirl]

They do overlap, but once you are in the IB program you have to follow those requirements. It dictates which math/science/history classes to take. For our school it required four years of a language. For my kids who are music students this limited the number of band electives they could take. My son also wanted to take art classes, and wouldn't have room in his schedule at all with IB, so he dropped the program. With what we learned with him my daughter won't even start IB.

As you've noticed, AP classes can be taken with or without IB. There is some cache to having an IB diploma, but it would depend on what your child wants to do in the future.

 

[AlohaNow]

My 8th grader was just accepted into the IB program for high school. I too feel kind of clueless on this and am trying to learn exactly what it is and why one should participate. I've read some negative things about IB on here so am curious where this thread will go. I guess I'm just old; we only had AP classes in my high school and I've only recently learned about IB.

 

[Neesy228]

I guess I'm just old; we only had AP classes in my high school and I've only recently learned about IB.

This is exactly how I feel too! Haha

I took several AP classes and feel comfortable with the system, but I want to make sure I'm not missing something that is going to become a "new normal" for high school graduates.

 

[diznygirl]

FYI: In IB your student will still be taking the same AP classes they would take if they weren't in IB. IB is just an additional program that requires certain things, like Physics instead of Environment Science, and four years of a language instead of just two, a minimum GPA to stay in the program, as well as attendance guidelines and increased community service hours. The high school diploma will then have an IB designation.

 

[mom2grace]

Our school system teaches IB to every student K-10 (this is a urban public school system) and THEN if you choose, you can complete the diploma in 11th and 12th grade. It is a major family commitment in my opinion and neither of my children will be doing it even though they take many AP class available at their school (there are 24 AP courses available at our school). We are a very education focused family but I don't think that IB is worth the effort for the benefit. Many kids who do it have to give up extra curricular activities.

In our high school, less than 5% of the students do the actual diploma (11th and 12th grade). There is a chance that you do all of the work and then don't 'pass' the exams.

I LOVE LOVE the IB K-10 instruction and would encourage attending a school if there is one in your area.

 

[mmmagique]

My son graduated middle school (jr. high) last year with almost straight a's. He began an IB program this year and is not doing well. I think a lot of it is because he was just way too interested in high school life, making friends and joining clubs. But part of it was the intense program. One of his teachers (AP geography) hands out at least one thing of homework per day. It can easily go up to three per day just in her class alone. I think it's a great program, for those who are prepared for it, and for those who have the right mind set. It's a very interesting and intensive program.

 

[daydream32]

From what I have heard it is completely different at every school. I have an IB diploma, but I graduated more than 10 years ago so things could have changed.

My school allowed you to get the full diploma or treat it more like AP classes and just get certificates in specific classes.

In my opinion the IB exams were longer and harder than the AP exams with more essays. I took a few AP classes too.

I am glad I did it and I did get almost a year in college credit for my scores. It was a lot of work, but I still had time for after school clubs and scouts.

My recommendation would be to look at the classes and see he would want to take all of them and if his electives like band or music would still fit in. Also see if the colleges he is looking at have anything about the credit they give for each class. Some seem to like AP more than IB or the other way around.

 

[kimblebee]

^^

This is the way it is at my daughters school..there isn't an IB program, but several classes have the designation. She has applied to be in the IB art class next year.

 

[QueenIsabella]

We're just starting on this now--DD13 plans on going through the IB program. Here, at least, it's really only 11th and 12th grade--9th and 10th are pre-IB (some other designation--forgive me, I'm new at this!)

It does look like a lot of work, and one issue DD has is, she's an orchestra kid. Orchestra takes 2 elective slots per year, out of 8 total slots. So, she'll have very little wiggle room, and less AP classes than she otherwise might. She's very dedicated to her music, but I'm still wondering if that's the right way to go for her. Academically, I think she can handle the IB workload. I figure, she can at least start down that track, and if it doesn't work out for her, that's fine. We could consider orchestra outside of school, too (she already takes private lessons). We're also looking at her taking a few college courses in the summer, just to free up slots on her schedule. Not this summer--some time in the future.

 

[cats mom]

I think it depends on what you and your kids want from the program, although I will say I would be a bit hesitant about enrolling at a school without a proven track record. Yes, there is a set program, but there's a learning curve for teachers and support staff, not just for students.

It's been a couple of years since we made our decision, but we felt the full diploma IB program was too restrictive given all the extra curricular activities my kids were involved with, and if they were just going to take a few courses then AP courses/tests were just as good as IB courses/tests. Both meet the "demanding course work" designation most college admissions officials look for, and AP was less time consuming and less expensive than IB. I'm sure IB is a good fit for some students, it wasn't for my kids.

 

[AlohaNow]

My son's current middle school is MYP/IB, but the IB program itself, for the designation on your diploma, is only 11th and 12th grade. We made a point of asking how a year abroad would impact his participation in the IB program and the coordinator said that if he went his sophomore year then he could fully participate in IB upon his return. We had always planned for him to go abroad his junior year, but it looks like we may be moving things up a bit! Initially we thought if we could match him up with an IB program abroad (the 'I' does stand for international!) then he would be fine. But what we learned at incoming freshman night proved us wrong as we learned more about IB. We also had an enlightening discussion with his current 8th grade social studies teacher. She explained a bit more about IB and how very rigorous it is and how it prepares you better for college. (Again, I'm old and I thought that is what AP does.) She has kept in touch with some former students who went IB and they said that college was a breeze for them due to IB, and these were students currently at Stanford and Duke. Someone upthread mentioned the very small percentage of students who participate in IB at their school and I may inquire as to what percentage participate at my son's future HS.

He is also an orchestra kid and he takes Japanese. For next year he is unwilling to give up either, which makes me happy, but which also means he has absolutely no choice in his schedule. He knows that he can slot something fun in future HS years, but if he goes IB I'm not sure that will be possible. Ah well, we still have time to figure it all out!

 

[hippiechicken]

My daughter completed the IB diploma program. It was perfect for her. Her class sizes were small and they went on a field trip to France to study WWII and Art History (and I got to chaperone!!). My daughter did Orchestra and Tech Theater at school, and danced with a ballet company, also. She took 5 years of Spanish. Each course is 2 years, so she took Chemistry, History of the Americas, Theater, etc, both Junior and Senior years. She took a few Dual Credit and Credit by Exam classes to fit everything in. She was busy!!
The IB program was a lot of writing and creative thinking, so it was perfect for my daughter. There is an Extended Essay, like 5000 words, that they write over the years and my daughter's was about Disney princesses... You pick an area to write about and she chose Film. She received English credit in college for it. For college, she was offered scholarship money because of IB, credit for the exams, and acceptance letters always included IB in them.
I think the program probably varies a little by school, but the requirements are consistent. I think you have to consider the child to determine which program is a better fit. My daughter hated AP classes because she felt like she was just memorizing information for a test. She felt she could express her opinion and thinking on IB tests. The testing is over several days and included oral exams and videos that were submitted.

 

[TCRAIG]

My daughter completed the IB diploma program. It was perfect for her. Her class sizes were small and they went on a field trip to France to study WWII and Art History (and I got to chaperone!!). My daughter did Orchestra and Tech Theater at school, and danced with a ballet company, also. She took 5 years of Spanish. Each course is 2 years, so she took Chemistry, History of the Americas, Theater, etc, both Junior and Senior years. She took a few Dual Credit and Credit by Exam classes to fit everything in. She was busy!!
The IB program was a lot of writing and creative thinking, so it was perfect for my daughter. There is an Extended Essay, like 5000 words, that they write over the years and my daughter's was about Disney princesses... You pick an area to write about and she chose Film. She received English credit in college for it. For college, she was offered scholarship money because of IB, credit for the exams, and acceptance letters always included IB in them.
I think the program probably varies a little by school, but the requirements are consistent. I think you have to consider the child to determine which program is a better fit. My daughter hated AP classes because she felt like she was just memorizing information for a test. She felt she could express her opinion and thinking on IB tests. The testing is over several days and included oral exams and videos that were submitted.

Agree - my daughter also graduated with an IB Diploma - although it was a number of years ago...but at that time:
1 - it is the most rigorous program offered - and you'll hear that term a lot - Rigorous
2 - the program is designed to be more like college classes than high school
3 - they're definitely NOT studying just to pass the test
4 - you can graduate with many more college credits than standard AP - my daughter ended up with over 30 - started college as a Sophomore
5 - teachers who teach the IB program need to complete special training and are the best of the best
6 - the students are required to create a true research/term paper - they produce drafts and review with their advisor - all IB students get a special IB advisor
7 - Colleges and Universities DO recognize the IB program as being the most Rigorous (there's that word again)
8 - the IB exams are tougher than AP
and finally - I really believe that graduating with an IB degree prepared my daughter for college far beyond what she would have been exposed to with just AP courses - she ended up graduating in 3 years - 2 majors (international business and finance) and a full minor (French) with a 4.0 GPA - Summa Cum Laude - Phi Beta Kappa...
She knew how to write a paper and how to study and how to communicate her ideas - All skills that have proven their worth far beyond her University days as well...

 

[QueenIsabella]

My son's current middle school is MYP/IB, but the IB program itself, for the designation on your diploma, is only 11th and 12th grade. We made a point of asking how a year abroad would impact his participation in the IB program and the coordinator said that if he went his sophomore year then he could fully participate in IB upon his return. We had always planned for him to go abroad his junior year, but it looks like we may be moving things up a bit! Initially we thought if we could match him up with an IB program abroad (the 'I' does stand for international!) then he would be fine. But what we learned at incoming freshman night proved us wrong as we learned more about IB. We also had an enlightening discussion with his current 8th grade social studies teacher. She explained a bit more about IB and how very rigorous it is and how it prepares you better for college. (Again, I'm old and I thought that is what AP does.) She has kept in touch with some former students who went IB and they said that college was a breeze for them due to IB, and these were students currently at Stanford and Duke. Someone upthread mentioned the very small percentage of students who participate in IB at their school and I may inquire as to what percentage participate at my son's future HS.

He is also an orchestra kid and he takes Japanese. For next year he is unwilling to give up either, which makes me happy, but which also means he has absolutely no choice in his schedule. He knows that he can slot something fun in future HS years, but if he goes IB I'm not sure that will be possible. Ah well, we still have time to figure it all out!

This was our DD's problem, too, and orchestra is every single day, both in MS and HS--that seems like an awful lot to me, given that she's been playing strings since she was 6, so she's not a newbie. And she couldn't take a language in MS, which means she has to get a fair amount in during HS. I talked to her this morning--she'll need some arts credit, so she'll take orchestra as a freshman, but probably drop it after that. There's a local youth orchestra, and she'll continue in private lessons. Luckily for me, she has no plans to go abroad until college. But, you do have to consider all these angles, it gets very tricky.

On the good side, my DD isn't the slightest bit concerned about the huge essay--she's already mulling over topics.

 

[aprilchem]

7 - Colleges and Universities DO recognize the IB program as being the most Rigorous (there's that word again)

I think YMMV on this. My institution has just decided to stop accepting IB credits, but we still accept AP credits. My suggestion to the OP would be to check with the likely colleges that your child will apply to and see what their stance on AP vs. IB might be.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I completed an IB high school program YEARS ago, and my son is in an IB Middle School now. Many Independent Schools in our area have stopped offering an AP program, though their courses are rigorous enough that the kids can sit for the AP exams.

I don't think there's a "RIGHT" answer, and I think it depends a great deal on how the particular school functions -- what the class sizes are, etc. But IB is definitely rigorous and recognized as such.

I would say that the following is consistent with my experience and understanding:

Agree - my daughter also graduated with an IB Diploma - although it was a number of years ago...but at that time:
1 - it is the most rigorous program offered - and you'll hear that term a lot - Rigorous
2 - the program is designed to be more like college classes than high school
3 - they're definitely NOT studying just to pass the test
4 - you can graduate with many more college credits than standard AP - my daughter ended up with over 30 - started college as a Sophomore
5 - teachers who teach the IB program need to complete special training and are the best of the best
6 - the students are required to create a true research/term paper - they produce drafts and review with their advisor - all IB students get a special IB advisor
7 - Colleges and Universities DO recognize the IB program as being the most Rigorous (there's that word again)
8 - the IB exams are tougher than AP
and finally - I really believe that graduating with an IB degree prepared my daughter for college far beyond what she would have been exposed to with just AP courses - she ended up graduating in 3 years - 2 majors (international business and finance) and a full minor (French) with a 4.0 GPA - Summa Cum Laude - Phi Beta Kappa...
She knew how to write a paper and how to study and how to communicate her ideas - All skills that have proven their worth far beyond her University days as well...

 

[mamacatnv]

DD is at an IB high school and was in the IB Diploma program for her Jr and the first half of her Sr. year. She decided the "CAS (community/activity/service) Hours", "EE extended essay" and one particular class that I cannot remember, were not worth the time/commitment and dropped out of the diploma program. Although with the exception of that one class she really did not like, she has remained in all her IB classes and will be taking a few, not all, of the IB tests this spring.

I agree the curriculum is rigorous and challenging.
I agree that this program will help with college prep HOWEVER, I have seen several IB diploma graduates not go to college because they were burnt out when they finished high school and felt they needed a break. IMO high school should be a balance of fun, events and academics.

The testing required for the diploma is expensive - I want to say in total close to $1000 - I understand that many universities will give credit but it all hinges on an individual college and their score requirements. Do your homework ahead of time.
We were sold the "IB will open many doors" concept. Welllllllll as we have gone down the college acceptance route, I am not sure how true it really is. Yes, DD has been accepted everywhere she has applied (so far) but that I believe is due mainly to very high ACT/SAT scores and overall good grades. Several of her fellow IB peers have not gotten into their choice colleges including the state flagship schools here in Texas so how many doors it really does open is up for debate.

The diploma is granted after they graduate from high school and college acceptance does not hinge on them receiving the IB diploma.

Lots of writing and critical thinking as mentioned.
In DD's school the IB kids are segregated which results in small classes but it also can be a scheduling issue. DD wanted to take IB Chem and IB Physics but had to choose as these classes were only available during one period and it happened to be the same one so she had to drop IB chem, AP chem was not an option (I don't remember why) but I think because she had already pretty much taken it the prior year.

When DD entered the program we told her that the decision was hers as we felt that high school should be a balance. When she decided to drop, she did so with our blessing.

The one thing I did notice about IB vs AP is that the curriculum is established unlike AP.

 

[cvjw]

Make sure your child is ready for the rigor of the classes. It can be brutal on some kids and actually inhibit their chances of getting into better colleges because of lower gpa's.

My son went to a math, science and technology magnet high school. They told you which classes to take and all electives were extra math and science classes. He was an all "A" kid in middle school, but started making B's in the magnet school. He was taking 4 hard core classes every semester and it was too much for him.

We dropped him out and he just took ap classes his junior year and did dual enrollment his senior year. He got into the college he wanted with free tuition because his gpa got much higher after dropping out of the magnet program.

Lots of his friends that stayed in the magnet could not get into his university because they gpa was too low. It made no difference that their diploma said magnet school.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The one thing I did notice about IB vs AP is that the curriculum is established unlike AP.

Very true! They ensure consistency in the IB program this way.