Interesting read about Disney here! I gotta agree!

[BrianL]

People act like Disney has been doing nothing. Growth is always going to come in cycles. Uni just went through big ones with HP, but for how long before that did they not add much? Disney did NFL and now they have Avatar, Toy Story, Star Wars lands all in the works...but it's not fast enough. It's never fast enough.

Yes Uni is in a strong growth cycle. They need to be. Disney was saturated for a bit, so growth naturally slows. Besides, what does it matter how many new attractions Uni (or Disney) builds when none of them are as good as the 40 year old Haunted Mansion?

 

[RustManFan]

I believe that Disney has to work a balance between building new attractions/rides and construction closures. In the most part they are building in existing theme park space and guests already whine when there are too many fences up or things seem to take longer than they expect. Closing MK to speed up the building of the new Fantasyland really wasn't an option, now was it?

We have always spaced out our trips in anticipation of seeing new things when we return. Exactly why we are reserved for late 2016 rather than having visited in 2015. Since 2009 many things will have already be updated/changed!

Wouldn't be surprised if it is 2020 before I return. (my daughter and son-in-law live in southern California so I must go to DL instead in between WDW trips)

 

[cleopenn]

There was a great article discussing what we have been experiencing with a Disney parks vacation on the theme parks tourist site. It was called "Walt Disney World's Middle Class Problem"

~NM

I found this article to be very. Personally, I think Disney is failing (miserably) at their shift to the latter group.

The economist in my agrees 100% with -

"When an annual Disney trip was an attainable dream for a middle-class family, that family’s connection to the place was more powerful. They couldn’t afford to go to Paris, no, but they could visit the World Showcase. Now, if it’s a more fleeting memory, the passion wanes and – in time – so too will the desire to spend more money on it.

And so, what Disney is hoping is that a new class of wealthy traveler will chose to visit Disney, thereby making up the cost of those families who don’t vacation to Disney each year. The fault in this logic, however, is that it assumes those wealthy travelers will return again and again – not a certainty when you consider the price of a Disney trip is now on par with a European vacation. Why keep coming back to Walt Disney World when you can see the rest of the world, too?

For Disney to continue to grow with a smaller consumer base, it has to continue to grow, change and differentiate itself from its competition. At a more expensive price point, that competition includes pretty much anywhere else people want to take a vacation. If it continues to operate at the lackadaisical pace it has been operating at when it comes to developing new rides, attractions, hotels, and experiences, that smaller consumer base will move on to something else."
​

It cost us less, far less, to go to Mexico (and stay at a luxury AI resort on the beach) last Thanksgiving than it did to visit WDW this year.

We will go back this year because my son wants to go to US and I told him we will spend a night or two at WDW (and stay on property) to hit any attractions we missed but he won't develop a connection to Disney because, for us, there are too many other options for similar or lesser cost. (Being from the NE, we are flying to our vacation destinations.)

 

[Angel Ariel]

People act like Disney has been doing nothing. Growth is always going to come in cycles. Uni just went through big ones with HP, but for how long before that did they not add much? Disney did NFL and now they have Avatar, Toy Story, Star Wars lands all in the works...but it's not fast enough. It's never fast enough.

Yes Uni is in a strong growth cycle. They need to be. Disney was saturated for a bit, so growth naturally slows. Besides, what does it matter how many new attractions Uni (or Disney) builds when none of them are as good as the 40 year old Haunted Mansion?

It's not fast enough...WE're talking 6 *years* from Avatar's announcement to opening. WWoHP was announced and completed in MUCH less time than that. Even TDA completely redid an entire theme park (DCA) - while that theme park was still open and operating daily - in less time than it's taking to build *one* land (which is off to the side where construction is easily completed without infringing on the rest of the park operating, unlike say Buena Vista Street which made the whole entrance to DCA a mess).

TDO doesn't get a pass from me when I see the work TDA is capable for a bigger project completed in less time.

 

[JaxDad]

The main issue is that they announce things years before even starting contstruction. Avatar was announced in 2011 and then they started consructiion January 2014 (with the closure of Lion King show) for openign Spring 2017. three years of construction is reasonable, but three years of doing nothing before that was awful. Then Star Wars Land was announced six months ago, we still don't have any sign of construction. Look at Universal, they gave two weeks notice of Distater closing and then announced Fast & Furious opens 2017, so there is less than two years from announcement to opening! Disney's drawn-out announcement process just annoys.

This is a very good point...

There is value in building expectations, but perhaps they draw it out a little too long. This not only annoys people, but (I think) also increases the chance for disappointment with the final result.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

But this is what gives it all a cafeteria feel to me. It's too easy. It's exactly what the article is pointing to. No new content. Just leftovers dressed up to look like a new dish.

I hope they wow me.
I WANT to be wowed.
And since I've lowered my expectations as far as I have it may not take as much as it once did. But it's going to take something.

Don't get me wrong. I completely agree with you but I blame the consumer more than I blame Disney. They have no incentive to spend 500 million on a ride that people will want included in their standard admission when they can spend 25 cents on a cupcake and people will double their admission cost for an "exclusive" experience they share with 20,000 other people.

 

[BrianL]

It's not fast enough...WE're talking 6 *years* from Avatar's announcement to opening. WWoHP was announced and completed in MUCH less time than that. Even TDA completely redid an entire theme park (DCA) - while that theme park was still open and operating daily - in less time than it's taking to build *one* land (which is off to the side where construction is easily completed without infringing on the rest of the park operating, unlike say Buena Vista Street which made the whole entrance to DCA a mess).

TDO doesn't get a pass from me when I see the work TDA is capable for a bigger project completed in less time.

To be fair, the original WWOHP consisted on ONE new ride, with the other two just being renamed. Also, as mentioned, WDW seems to announce way before they start construction, and the construction itself doesn't take quite as long. Uni started on the new Kong are before it was even announced what it would be, so it's going to seem like it opens really fast.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

To be fair, the original WWOHP consisted on ONE new ride, with the other two just being renamed. Also, as mentioned, WDW seems to announce way before they start construction, and the construction itself doesn't take quite as long. Uni started on the new Kong are before it was even announced what it would be, so it's going to seem like it opens really fast.

Avatarland is only going to have 2 rides so does that justify double the build time?

 

[lugnut33]

This...over the last few years it's really been disappointing to see how often Disney just takes the easy way with something especially these dance parties. The last couple of years there have been more and more of them. It really does just scream "well here, let's have a bunch of ppl. throw on some costumes and play some music...that's worth the price of admission." Don't get me wrong, I have kids and they kinda like them for like 5 mins., but having one here or there sometimes is one thing, using them to take the place of actual attractions/shows/entertainment is just cheap.

What drives me even more crazy are the add-ons they are offering, like desert parties, special character meet and greets, after hours events, etc. Yet I don't blame them since people line up in droves to purchase the add-ons.

 

[momof2n2]

Don't get me wrong. I completely agree with you but I blame the consumer more than I blame Disney. They have no incentive to spend 500 million on a ride that people will want included in their standard admission when they can spend 25 cents on a cupcake and people will double their admission cost for an "exclusive" experience they share with 20,000 other people.

"There's one born every minute."
(She said as she paid off the Visa charge of $680 for a dinner in a castle.)

 

[dfb]

As with all companies, they go thru cyclic changes; when they need business they work hard to provide a sought after product for a good price. When they get the business and product, they try ways to enhance profits with things like My Magic (Their Magic). New product enhancements - yes, no, maybe??

I think someone going to Disney now for the first time could still have a good time in any of the parks and not be disappointed, they will see the value or not in their world. A frequent visitor maybe be tiring of the lack of change. Especially with the current price increases and see a decline in value.

I remember the first two times I went to Disney. One as a teenager in the 70s and one as an adult in the 80s. We had a good time each trip, the attractions were basically new to us each time but again did not return until several years later because the price, wait times - basic value was not desirable. 3rd trip in 2000's with FP- although there were several changes in the parks a lot was still the same but the price was good (relatively) and FP- gave us more bang for our buck. We've made about 30 trips since.

I've not been too impressed with the last few changes to WDW. Star Wars and Avatarland, not a big fan and not optimistic. I know it will be a big hit but most likely not for me! FP+ was a big disappointment for me. Although we do enjoy going to Disney and will continue to do so, with these changes and an ever increasing price we'll take a break for a while. We are DVC and bank/borrow points over a three year period. Maybe we'll make it 3 years probably not. Most in the family have favored on future trips using DVC points for other locations or to stay in Orlando but seek other non park entertainment - Disney or not.

Our next trip January, the last before APs expire and probably last for a good while, we are scouting out non park entertainment Disney or not for future purposes.

 

[BrianL]

Avatarland is only going to have 2 rides so does that justify double the build time?

Kinda depends on the overall theming. While Hogsmeade was very well done, it isn't quite to the level of the floating mountains and glowing forest promised by Avatar.

Now, Diagon Alley was a much more intense build. It was announced in December 2011, started construction in January 2012 and opened in July 2014, so 2.5 years of construction...just a a tad under Avatar's projections (Avatar construction start January 2014 to open "early 2017") The Avatar deal was announced all the way back in 2011 though, making it seem so long. I can agree that Disney probably should not make these announcements so far before they are ready to begin work.

 

[Momtomouselover]

I tend to agree with the article. I'm a repeat visitor though and we have been going regularly (2x a year at least) since 2007. We have had APs for the last 4 years or maybe 5 but this year I'm waffling on renewal. Last year I was unsure but went ahead and did it but was a little underwhelmed with new Fantasyland and was anxious for new additions to the parks. I'm tired of the hype and delivering less. I was ok with it (the Disney park/resort experience) when the resort prices, food, and multi day ticket prices seemed reasonable but now the resorts and ticket prices have really gone up. We don't live close enough for day trips so the overall cost and value is what I take into consideration. These new additions should have been started long ago. Now, with that said the parks are still very crowded so the prices and resting on their laurels hasn't effected attendance yet but I suspect it will by 2017. I'm assuming they plan on opening something new just in time!

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Kinda depends on the overall theming. While Hogsmeade was very well done, it isn't quite to the level of the floating mountains and glowing forest promised by Avatar.

Now, Diagon Alley was a much more intense build. It was announced in December 2011, started construction in January 2012 and opened in July 2014, so 2.5 years of construction...just a a tad under Avatar's projections (Avatar construction start January 2014 to open "early 2017") The Avatar deal was announced all the way back in 2011 though, making it seem so long. I can agree that Disney probably should not make these announcements so far before they are ready to begin work.

I hope the glowing forest really knocks it out of the park because I don't see how spray foam "mountains" attacked to steel girders took that long to figure out.

 

[jon18uk]

Avatarland is only going to have 2 rides so does that justify double the build time?

The build time for Avatar is only 3-3.5 years. It's the three years between announcement and demolition that's the issue.

 

[Praying Colonel]

Unfortunately, I think the author may very well be wrong. IMHO Disney is betting that crowds won't suffer while they're making the improvements they're working on in EP, AK and DHS. And given how crowds were up substantially last year, they very well may be right.

We WDW veterans can see the decrease in value, but WDW doesn't market to us as much as they do the first-time crowd, and those guests don't know what they're missing.

 

[Nancyg56]

I found this article to be very. Personally, I think Disney is failing (miserably) at their shift to the latter group.

The economist in my agrees 100% with -

"When an annual Disney trip was an attainable dream for a middle-class family, that family’s connection to the place was more powerful. They couldn’t afford to go to Paris, no, but they could visit the World Showcase. Now, if it’s a more fleeting memory, the passion wanes and – in time – so too will the desire to spend more money on it.

And so, what Disney is hoping is that a new class of wealthy traveler will chose to visit Disney, thereby making up the cost of those families who don’t vacation to Disney each year. The fault in this logic, however, is that it assumes those wealthy travelers will return again and again – not a certainty when you consider the price of a Disney trip is now on par with a European vacation. Why keep coming back to Walt Disney World when you can see the rest of the world, too?

For Disney to continue to grow with a smaller consumer base, it has to continue to grow, change and differentiate itself from its competition. At a more expensive price point, that competition includes pretty much anywhere else people want to take a vacation. If it continues to operate at the lackadaisical pace it has been operating at when it comes to developing new rides, attractions, hotels, and experiences, that smaller consumer base will move on to something else."
​

It cost us less, far less, to go to Mexico (and stay at a luxury AI resort on the beach) last Thanksgiving than it did to visit WDW this year.

We will go back this year because my son wants to go to US and I told him we will spend a night or two at WDW (and stay on property) to hit any attractions we missed but he won't develop a connection to Disney because, for us, there are too many other options for similar or lesser cost. (Being from the NE, we are flying to our vacation destinations.)

This is the point my DH has been making lately. 5 Years ago he would not have been able to make this argument, but today I think his issue is valid. This is not to say that we do not find a good value when we vacation in WDW, but the price has steadily increased without providing updates to justify the increases. I know that there has been a lot of work done, but honestly, it was long overdue, and I believe the snails pace that construction takes is making it worse in terms of how people regard Disney. We are also from the NE so we tend to fly where we need to go, so I do not factor airfare into vacation costs as a comparison, just in our total budget.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I've been giving this some thought. I did the college program in the spring of 2005. In fact, it started exactly 11 years ago today. I decided to think about what new additions were added to the parks since that time that are still there. During that time, they had The Happiest Celebration on Earth which saw the addition of Soarin' at Epcot, Lights Motors Action at DHS, and Animal Kingdom got Lucky the Dinosaur (gone). Since I have left that trip, these are the things added that I can think of.

Magic Kingdom:
Little Mermaid ride
7DMT
Extra Dumbo ride
*possibly counts as additions: Frozen bathrooms, Be Our Guest, Gaston's Tavern, interactive queues for Winnie the Pooh, Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, and Peter Pan's Flight

Epcot:
Well, they have that Frozen ride coming that replaced Maelstrom which I loved...

Disney's Hollywood Studios:
Toy Story Midway Mania

Animal Kingdom:
Expedition Everest


I might be missing some additions so let me know if I skipped something. Then, when you think of all of the things that were removed, especially those that weren't replaced or were replaced by something inferior, it is pretty sad. I get that they need to space our the additions, but I feel like they have let Epcot and Hollywood Studios go so long without the attention that they both so desperately needed that they are going to have to start doing something amazing to both of those places soon.

 

[Angel Ariel]

To be fair, the original WWOHP consisted on ONE new ride, with the other two just being renamed. Also, as mentioned, WDW seems to announce way before they start construction, and the construction itself doesn't take quite as long. Uni started on the new Kong are before it was even announced what it would be, so it's going to seem like it opens really fast.

Which is why I also mentioned the redo of dca, which was completed in 5 years (announcement to open). There were 3 brand new rides built there in its new land (1 more than pandora), not including TSMM which was also opened after the announcement that the park was being redone. There were also many rides that were rethemed, the DCA entrance was demolished and rethemed into Buena Vista street, with a new working trolly, new street shows, a couple of new restaurants (carthay circle, flo's, cozy cone), the installation of brand new technology for a nighttime spectacular (WOC).

That retheme of all of dca had a lot more to be done, *while the park was filly open and operational daily - an obstacle pandora doesn't deal with because of how off to the side it is - and anaheim got it completed in less time than it is taking to just add a new land in orlando.

If anaheim can get that much done in a shorter amount of time, it is absolutely reasonable to expect orlando go be able to open a smaller project in the same (or less) amount of time. That's comparing disney to disney. The timeline for pandora is ridiculous, aND I think wdw is going to have some difficulties if SW and TS have the same kind of time line as pandora.

 

[mummabear]

I see this attitude a lot on here and I always assume the poster has never actually been to Universal. There is a lot there for younger children - assuming your younger children like Harry Potter, Dr. Suess, Marvel superheroes, Despicable Me, Shrek, The Simpsons, Transformers, etc. I only have boys, but I know my boys were more "into" the Universal themes than the Disney themes, even when they were very young.

It is also much easier to meet characters at Universal, and the rider swap system is better there.

The ride swap better at US? Not in my experience at either the LA or Florida parks across 4 different trips. We found it such a pain in the *** that it was one of the main reasons we decided not to go this last trip (first time we have ever skipped it).
As far as the theming it does well for the 6 and up age group but not for younger especially with the George area gone