Interesting Photography Debate

[Gdad]

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1841221

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Wow. I'll be sure to stay away from that one. I can't imagine saying anything over there that won't get me into trouble. It looks like those people are paying more for photography that we spent on our entire wedding (including rings and the honeymoon to boot!).

I'm glad I've got boys and not girls like you, Jeff. That "parents of the bride pay for the wedding" tradition is one of the very few traditions that I uphold.

I actually had to shoot a wedding once...under duress. It was for a couple of people at the office getting married. He was Vietnamese and she was Cambodian. The wedding was bi-lingual, but since I didn't understand Vietnamese or Cambodian I had no clue what the heck was going on. There was lots of hair cutting, throwing of stuff, crying, incense, changes of clothing, and all sorts of surprises. To top it off, the A&M vs OU football game was on in another room and I was the only Aggie amongst nearly 100 Sooner fans and they beat us 77-0 that day.

I'll have to dig up the slideshow I did for that wedding some time. It's probably appallingly bad in retrospect, but it seemed OK at the time. It confirmed what I already knew...I don't want to shoot weddings.

 

[wdwpluto]

Ok, I had to go there. I'm a past Disney bride (and think their photogs are well, less than good) and I also shoot weddings (in addition to editorial work). Let 'em flame away.

 

[lurkyloo]

I thought you guys might want to see some examples of the awful photography we're talking about over on the weddings board so you might understand why we're so steamed at having to pay $1,000 just for the session and another $1,000 to get the digital rights.

Who dat?

New Incredible Shrinking Groom ™! So compact, you can carry him on your bouquet! (Random stranger in background sold separately)

”See, when I Photoshop out the bench, it’ll look like you’re levitating!”

”So… how do you guys hold this thing up when I’m not around…?”

”I’m gonna need you guys to move a little to the left – I can still see the fountain…”

Posing for some pictures with an exit sign, er, I mean a suit of armor in the lobby of Cinderella’s Royal Table.

(The photos in my signature were not taken by a Disney photographer...)

 

[Gdad]

I am very sorry you and others are unhappy with your Disney wedding photography. I have two daughters who already want a 'Fairy Tale Wedding' at Disney and that thread over there was very eye opening to me. IMHO it is absolutely inexcusable for Disney to not offer top notch photography services for the ceremonies they host.

 

[wdwpluto]

Sigh. Yup. They haven't gotten any better since ours in 2002.

Did you complain to them? You certainly should. You'd be surprised at what a well written complaint letter can sometimes do. (And believe me, I know you'd rather have great photos instead of a refund or anything they might offer, but that's moot at this point unfortunately )

 

[lurkyloo]

Exactly! So far they have only offered a re-shoot - never mind that we live in California and that the cost of a tux rental, dress steaming, hair/makeup and a new bouquet would run us more than $500.... Somehow I don't think I should have to pay that on top of what we already paid just to get decent pictures.

 

[wdwpluto]

Exactly! So far they have only offered a re-shoot - never mind that we live in California and that the cost of a tux rental, dress steaming, hair/makeup and a new bouquet would run us more than $500.... Somehow I don't think I should have to pay that on top of what we already paid just to get decent pictures.

Can you do a re-shoot at Disneyland? Not the same, I know, but maybe an option? If not, I would ask for a full refund (if you're lucky, you'll get 50%).

Ours was in November and it was dark-ish and the castle lights weren't on. And nobody could figure out how to turn them on. Took like 45 minutes and by then it was light out. Don't they have a schedule of when these shoots are happening so somebody who knows how to turn the lights on is there to put them on?

I knew from that moment that our pics were going to be awful (due in part to the horrible mood we were in at that point!) and they were. Suffered many of the same problems as yours - super dark, not good poses (ie itty bitty groom), we were tiny in the frame (I know you want some scenery, but really?), excessive double chins (yeah, I know, I have 'em, but any photographer worth his salt knows how to minimize them through good posing of his subject), trash cans in the photos that could have been easily avoided, light leaks on our film (hey, it was 2002) that appeared as red haze on our prints - some of those even made it into our folio... the list just goes on.

 

[lurkyloo]

Oh my gosh - those are all the same problems we have in ours! The trash cans thing really gets me - it's so easy to frame them out, especially if you stand closer than a football-field length away!

I wonder if you and I had the same photographer....

And what's up with including shots where we were moving or had our eyes closed? I'm pretty sure no pro photographer would ever let his or her clients see those!

Grr! I'll keep trying with Disney. Supposedly all the no's we are getting are coming straight from the top via our contact, but that doesn't sound like Disney customer service to me!

 

[jann1033]

I thought you guys might want to see some examples of the awful photography we're talking about over on the weddings board so you might understand why we're so steamed at having to pay $1,000 just for the session and another $1,000 to get the digital rights.

Who dat?

New Incredible Shrinking Groom ™! So compact, you can carry him on your bouquet! (Random stranger in background sold separately)

”See, when I Photoshop out the bench, it’ll look like you’re levitating!”

”So… how do you guys hold this thing up when I’m not around…?”

”I’m gonna need you guys to move a little to the left – I can still see the fountain…”

Posing for some pictures with an exit sign, er, I mean a suit of armor in the lobby of Cinderella’s Royal Table.

(The photos in my signature were not taken by a Disney photographer...)

actually i like the castle shots set ups, they are just out of focus.(maybe it's the resolution?) well not the cheesy armour one but the others...ok not the holding up the wall one either...ok i like a few

mark...technically the groom's family is supposed to pay for the photos and flowers, and rehersal dinner, daughter's ex parents had pizza for the rehersal dinner, paid for nada and hogged the photographer so we ended up with not one family photo( course not that they are worth all that much now that they are divorced)

 

[11290]

Not wanting to hijack this thread but, check out this link for the photog that did my daughters wedding last year here in Indiana. She has a awesome talent for unique settings and composition in her photography. Not cheap but good, at least in my opinion, and I confess to being a bit biased.

http://www.bobbiandmike.com/

 

[The Grays]

You may also ask if the photography is contracted out or is this Disney....I know on the cruise they are a contract company that comes in and does the work.
Did you get a chance to see any of the work ahead of time? If so how did that look?

 

[MarkBarbieri]

mark...technically the groom's family is supposed to pay for the photos and flowers, and rehersal dinner, daughter's ex parents had pizza for the rehersal dinner, paid for nada and hogged the photographer so we ended up with not one family photo( course not that they are worth all that much now that they are divorced)

What?!? I'm OK with the pizza rehearsal dinner, but the rest of it sounds expensive. Maybe I can encourage them to marry in the spring and we'll just raid the landscaping for flowers.

I have a feeling that my daughter-in-laws, assuming I someday have them, will not be big fans of mine after the wedding. I'm a pretty cheap guy (except for camera gear) and I'm constantly amazed at what people spend on weddings these days. I'm not opposed to people with lots of money spending it however they like. I'm just amazed at people spending 6 months gross pay on a one day event when they still don't even own a home. I think I'll work a deal with the kids that they have to pay back every dollar of mine they spend on the wedding into a 529 plan for my grandkids.

 

[wdwpluto]

Oh my gosh - those are all the same problems we have in ours! The trash cans thing really gets me - it's so easy to frame them out, especially if you stand closer than a football-field length away!

I wonder if you and I had the same photographer....

And what's up with including shots where we were moving or had our eyes closed? I'm pretty sure no pro photographer would ever let his or her clients see those!

Grr! I'll keep trying with Disney. Supposedly all the no's we are getting are coming straight from the top via our contact, but that doesn't sound like Disney customer service to me!

It was so long ago (2002), so I'm not 100% on his name (and the letter was lost in the great harddrive crash of 2004). But if it is the same person and he's still working for them, well, that's sad.

Are you going through your FTW planner or have you contacted DPS directly? I sent a letter by mail (certified, return receipt, blah blah blah) to DPS and they responded immediately w/ do you want a reshoot or 50% refund. Though, if they're getting a lot of complaints, I could see how they'd be less inclined to offer refunds. I mean, they KNOW people can't/won't take them up on reshoots.

Thankfully that was the only disappointment of our entire wedding. Everything else done by Disney was fantastic. So Gdad, don't be gun shy of a Disney wedding for your girls. Just hire an outside photographer for the actual wedding and don't expect great photos from the MK shoot (maybe you'll be lucky and get pleasantly surprised)

 

[Geoff_M]

I would hope most people on this board would know the answer to the OP's question: No, it's not all right to do so unless you've been given permission to do so by the rights holder.

- The perceived value vs. what you paid doesn't make a difference or justify the action. The fact that people think Adobe charges and arm and a leg for Photoshop doesn't make it OK to copy it.

- Changing mediums doesn't make a difference. A digital copy is no different than a physical copy.

- The fact that the photographer didn't bother to place copy protecting watermarks or similar devices in the photo doesn't equal permission or justification.

 

[tjl1388]

lurkyloo, your wetting photog has got some serious skillz!!!!!! I spent a good HOUR on his/website. The Disney folks should take note.

 

[PixieDust32]

Oh boy!

 

[Miss Kelly]

Not wanting to hijack this thread but, check out this link for the photog that did my daughters wedding last year here in Indiana. She has a awesome talent for unique settings and composition in her photography. Not cheap but good, at least in my opinion, and I confess to being a bit biased.

http://www.bobbiandmike.com/

Bobbi is awesome! We are both members of the same photography message board.

 

[jann1033]

i didn't read the entire first thread but i have to agree with Geoff, the photos aren't really yours, they are the photographers, no matter if he is talented or not and sorry but using in a way you do not have permission to use them is stealing no matter if he is talented or not. i think people who would never steal a tangible object forget or just don't realize that misusing a service really amounts to the same
guessing this is not available but don't understand why someone would hire "talent" without seeing the actual examples of his work first..does disney just assign someone? if so i think i'd have more of a complaint with disney for not hiring someone decent.

 

[fitzperry]

Not wanting to hijack this thread but, check out this link for the photog that did my daughters wedding last year here in Indiana. She has a awesome talent for unique settings and composition in her photography. Not cheap but good, at least in my opinion, and I confess to being a bit biased.

http://www.bobbiandmike.com/

What a great website! I left it open on my computer and my kids came in and cranked up the music. Those images almost make me want to get married again (to the same guy of course ). Wedding photography sure has changed during the past 17 years.