Interesting Account from Bin Laden Compound Raid

[jodifla]

Just heard on the BBC the Seals took Bin Laden's body and another man back with them, and planned to take 12 more women (including the wife) and children, but couldn't because of the downed helicopter.

 

[ols386]

The latest reports say that there were 22 "killed or captured" in the compound, a Reuters report says that a woman, believed to be a wife, was only wounded and was not used as a shield. Updates also now say that a 2nd woman was killed but she was not his wife... which would raise some interesting conservative Muslim ethical problems for OBL if he we in the presence of a woman that wasn't a wife (assuming she wasn't a relative).

That's what I heard. The woman was not killed, but shot in the leg.

 

[BellvilleDad]

And don't forget all the virgins who are now lining up for him.....................

Or, like the joke says, it's not virgins, but Virginians: George Washington, James Madison, Patrick Henry, John Adams, James Monroe, etc. And they are all taking turns punching him in the face!

 

[FredinFL]

Now, is there any more proof needed that a man wrote that than the idea that virgins will be lining up for him? Crap on a cracker, what a crock.

 

[Pooh Crew]

I think this is vitriol, and it's not the only such comment on this thread.

I'm sorry for being mean...I must have confused her with one of those many women screeching and celebrating Bin Laden's success when the twin towers fell and thousands of innocent Americans were killed.

 

[crashbb]

I don't think there's any vitriol against her, just him for using her.

So you feel the Navy SEALS and everyone else hunting OBL all these years are cowards? That they're no better than OLB? Awesome.

The woman was an associate of his, and a follower. She deserves to be shot just as much as he did.

Regardless of who she was...if you lay down with dogs, you'll get fleas. I still say guilty by association.

Well, sure because what would that wife be doing there if she wasn't involved heavily? Whoever she was, she was with OBL.

Still don't see any vitriol?

 

[FredinFL]

It's in the cold and flu aisle next to the Vicks.

 

[Pooh Crew]

Still don't see any vitriol?

Was she just an innocent bystander who was in the wrong place at the wrong time? I'm asking in all seriousness...no snark or sarcasm intended at all. That's not what I've gathered from the news reports, but I readily admit to not being glued to the tv.

Where is the line between being a victim of circumstance and supporting terrorism? I mean, isn't this their "religion"? Don't the women there support and believe the same as the men? Is half of this country (using the assumption that half the population is female) really a slave populace? If so, why do they not JOIN with the soldiers there to help them instead of fighting against them? I just don't understand.

 

[tlbwriter]

Is half of this country (using the assumption that half the population is female) really a slave populace?

Yes.

If so, why do they not JOIN with the soldiers there to help them instead of fighting against them? I just don't understand.

No, you obviously don't understand at all.

 

[NaLisa]

Was she just an innocent bystander who was in the wrong place at the wrong time? I'm asking in all seriousness...no snark or sarcasm intended at all. That's not what I've gathered from the news reports, but I readily admit to not being glued to the tv.

Where is the line between being a victim of circumstance and supporting terrorism? I mean, isn't this their "religion"? Don't the women there support and believe the same as the men? Is half of this country (using the assumption that half the population is female) really a slave populace? If so, why do they not JOIN with the soldiers there to help them instead of fighting against them? I just don't understand.

Details about the women in the compound are scarce, but subjugation of women is the norm in Pakistan. They’re often illiterate and denied educational opportunities. “Honor crimes” against women are frequent. Women have been killed by their own families for seeking divorce from an abusive husband. Women have been assassinated for dressing “improperly,” meaning they weren’t covering every inch of their bodies other than eyes.

Mukhtaran Bibi was sentenced to be raped and paraded through town for the “crime” of her brother, who dared to walk with a girl from another tribe higher up the pecking order. She was then expected to commit suicide to keep her family’s “honor” intact, but instead she chose the very risky path of prosecuting her attackers. Hers is an incredible story, and she’s a true hero who continues her good work to better the lives of Pakistani women despite constant death threats.

I am incredibly grateful to be born in a country where women have all the freedoms afforded men, and I thank our service men and women who protect those freedoms. I have sympathy for women born in parts of the world where “choice” is a foreign concept.

I don’t know details about the woman killed at the bin Laden compound, but I can’t help but wonder if she had any choice about being there.

 

[crashbb]

Was she just an innocent bystander who was in the wrong place at the wrong time? I'm asking in all seriousness...no snark or sarcasm intended at all. That's not what I've gathered from the news reports, but I readily admit to not being glued to the tv.

Where is the line between being a victim of circumstance and supporting terrorism? I mean, isn't this their "religion"? Don't the women there support and believe the same as the men? Is half of this country (using the assumption that half the population is female) really a slave populace? If so, why do they not JOIN with the soldiers there to help them instead of fighting against them? I just don't understand.

That wasn't the question being asked. The PP stated that there was no vitriol against the woman - that is what I was countering. The argument was not whether or not the vitriol was justified.

To answer YOUR question. I'm not sure. First, you appear to be making the assumption that Osama's actions are truly reflective of the religion (at least, I think you are with the comment "Where is the line between being a victim of circumstance and supporting terrorism? I mean, isn't this their "religion"?" which seems to suggest that the support of terrorism is part of their religion). I'm not sure that that is a valid assumption (but it probably cannot be discussed here). Is it an example of "Stockholm Syndrome"? Was she being held there against her will? Did she want to be there? Honestly, I have no idea (and neither does anyone on the DIS). I think the odds that she was there because the other options were worse (death, physical/sexual attacks) are higher in Pakistan than they'd be in a North American country, but we cannot know what was going on in this particular situation.

 

[Geoff_M]

Just FYI, it is perfectly permissible for a Muslim man to be in the same room with an unrelated woman, so long as she's properly dressed. There are female household servants all over the place.

I'm certainly not an expert in Muslim social norms, but I thought that the fear of women mixing with unrelated men was the justification that the Saudis use to prohibit women from driving in that country. I also think that the norms, like other religions, vary from sect to sect. Just like acceptable practice regarding things like dress and technology use vary between "old order" Amish and more "liberal" Anabaptist communities. And from what I know, bin Laden was an adherent of a particularly strict form of Wahhabism. That what made me wonder about the "other" woman. However, I also later thought that since he was in a "compound" OBL shared with others then perhaps the woman was a separate living quarters and had no direct contact with bin Laden.

 

[Pooh Crew]

No, you obviously don't understand at all.

I stated that in my post...the same post that I asked for clarity of the situation.

And just for clarity, by "religion" I meant OBL's beliefs, not the Muslim or Islamic religions. That's why I put it in quotes.

 

[Pooh Crew]

That wasn't the question being asked. The PP stated that there was no vitriol against the woman - that is what I was countering. The argument was not whether or not the vitriol was justified.

To answer YOUR question. I'm not sure. First, you appear to be making the assumption that Osama's actions are truly reflective of the religion (at least, I think you are with the comment "Where is the line between being a victim of circumstance and supporting terrorism? I mean, isn't this their "religion"?" which seems to suggest that the support of terrorism is part of their religion). I'm not sure that that is a valid assumption (but it probably cannot be discussed here). Is it an example of "Stockholm Syndrome"? Was she being held there against her will? Did she want to be there? Honestly, I have no idea (and neither does anyone on the DIS). I think the odds that she was there because the other options were worse (death, physical/sexual attacks) are higher in Pakistan than they'd be in a North American country, but we
cannot know what was going on in this particular situation.

Thank you. THAT's what I was needing to know. We do not know why she was there. My initial reaction was based on her being a willing participant. Obviously, there are other things to consider.