Intelligent Designer = G-D or Extra-Terristorial

[DisDuck]

I tried to start this discussion earlier today but nobody interested. Just read another article about school board elections in Dover, PA centering around this same subject as in Kansas, Evolution vs. ID.

I have a very clear question. If there was Intelligent Design involved in 'our' history then was that designer a g-d or someone from another superior extra-terristorial civilization.

I consider this to be a very important question and needs to be addressed by those supporting ID. Because if the designer is 'g-d' then one is discussing religion and since there are many different versions of 'creation' and 'world' development based on the different religions of the world both past and present (mono & multi theistic) then one must include them all in the discussion. How would anyone know which one is the 'correct' one, ie. Designer? This religious discussion then belongs at home/religious institution not in a public school. If designer not 'g-d' therefore not religious in nature then one must believe that the earth was visited by a 'superior' civilization in the past and it is this 'being' (an extra-terristorial) who started/created everything. If so, then 'we' must study and search for all instances of 'visits' from 'others' giving scientific weight to UFO sightings, etc.

It is one (g-d) or the other(ET); otherwise, Darwin is right.

 

[Ted and Holly]

Charles Darwin did not deny the possibility of a higher power.

Ted

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Well, I would go with God.

I fully understand that others feel differently. But, if there was "agreement" that it was God, g-d, or other deity, I think science or history classes would have to mention this, just as they would if there was "agreement" that it's of an E.T. origin.

 

[marybet]

I think ID is just a way to get creationism into the schools. It isn't even a good "theroy". IMHO it isn't even a good idea, the first time I heard about it I just had a good laugh.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

I think ID is just a way to get creationism into the schools. It isn't even a good "theroy". IMHO it isn't even a good idea, the first time I heard about it I just had a good laugh.

Yeah, kind of like I did the first time heard about creationism without input from some higher power.

 

[DisDuck]

But creationism or ID is 'g-d' is religion in Public Schools. Now which one would you choose:
1) Gilgamesh Epic
2) Aztec
3) Mayan
4) Native American Spirit World
5) Shinto (Emperor of Japan descended from the Sun)
6) Buddhist Story
7) Hindu (Rama or Vishnu)
8) Egyptian Story (Isis & Horus)
9) Greek (Titans or maybe Zeus)
etc.

I delibertly left out Jewish, Christian, Moslem genisis as that is main stream. But today's public schools are a mix of 'mainstream' and others (asian, etc.) so if mainstream given credence over 'other' than selectivity is being exercised and someone's beliefs are ignored.

Then there is the second part of my question. How will these students compare and compete if there science education does not conform to the rest of the country or even the world in public schools. Then there is the third part on how do you teach biology particularly AP. Finally, no one responded to my note that Notre Dame & SMU teach Evolution as current science without requiring ID or creationism included in the course. These ideas are taught in the religious cirriculum where they belong.

 

[live4christp1]

ID = God in my opinion

The human body and everything in creation for that matter is to complex to have just happened by chance.

Romans 1:18-25 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suprpress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man - and birds and four - footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Yeah, what Paul said in Romans.

 

[Chuck S]

So now the schools should be teaching the opinions of Paul, a mortal that lived 2000+ years ago? No, ID has no place in public schools.

 

[DisDuck]

liv4.. so if ID = g-d then please answer which one in my list. If it only 'your' g-d then you are 'forcing' other beliefs to be ignored and those who follow to be ignored.

 

[live4christp1]

If they were to both be taught, both should be presented as theories and allow students to decide for themselves.

I have no desire of forcing my opinion on anyone. My means of reaching someone with the gospel would be through my personal testimony, my daily witness in the way I live my life and treat those who I come in contact with, by inviting (not forcing) someone to church or VBS, by extending grace to others as I have had grace extended to me, by answering questions that have been posed to me (or the general public) but not beating someone over the head and screaming "turn or burn", by not compromising my beliefs, and praying for the lost.

 

[Rajah]

I still don't understand why people think they have to be exclusive. You can have an intelligently directed (God) evolution, which is my belief.

 

[swilphil]

I believe in God, but I think the term intelligent designer limits God's role in Christianity. I think evolution should be taught in science classes and religious questions can be taught in comparative religion classes, at home or at church.

Is it possible that God created evolution? I just don't understand why evolution and religion can't co-exist. By that I mean, why can't people accept the theory of evolution without having to forego their religious beliefs?

 

[Tigger_Magic]

While I believe in ID = God, I would not support teaching it in public schools. ID, in whatever form you teach it and with whatever intellect you choose to identify as the intelligence behind the design, leaves the realm of science & scientific methods/processes and moves into the realm of the supernatural & theology. You move into an area that cannot be tested, proven, examined and sometimes explained, thus requiring the exercise of religious faith. That is not something that can or should be required of students in public schools.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Ohio went through this whole ID thing last year and it was pushed big with the Homeschoolers. (go figure!) It is simply a way to get God back into the schools. Anyone who claims any differently is a liar or sadly deceived. I have NEVER heard of a class or school suggesting the whole alien theory...although it was on TV last night! Still trying to figure out why that alien ship led the Israellites thru the desert for all those years...

I am a follower of Christ, and I do believe in creation. Those are both acts of faith, and I am A-OK with that concept. I don't believe that it is my business to push this onto kids who aren't my own. Nor do I want my children indoctrinated into other's religions. Now schools that teach religion classes are great. I think that the more we know about how others in this world think and believe the more we can all deal with one another in a respectful manner.

 

[chadfromdallas]

ID, in whatever form you teach it and with whatever intellect you choose to identify as the intelligence behind the design, leaves the realm of science & scientific methods/processes and moves into the realm of the supernatural & theology. You move into an area that cannot be tested, proven, examined and sometimes explained, thus requiring the exercise of religious faith. That is not something that can or should be required of students in public schools.

Doesn't get much more clear then that folks

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

If they were to both be taught, both should be presented as theories and allow students to decide for themselves.

I have no desire of forcing my opinion on anyone. My means of reaching someone with the gospel would be through my personal testimony, my daily witness in the way I live my life and treat those who I come in contact with, by inviting (not forcing) someone to church or VBS, by extending grace to others as I have had grace extended to me, by answering questions that have been posed to me (or the general public) but not beating someone over the head and screaming "turn or burn", by not compromising my beliefs, and praying for the lost.

Good post... ITA about the teaching of both as theories. I am also glad you brought out the "grace" aspect of Cjhristianity. Relationship with Jesus should not (and cannot) be forced on anyone. It's all about the grace. Individuals can take it or leave it. It's up to each of us to decide that.

 

[jimmiej]

So now the schools should be teaching the opinions of Paul, a mortal that lived 2000+ years ago?

No, but students should be taught that evolution/Darwinism is a theory & that there are some who believe in various ID theories. Leave it at that & then teach the theory of evolution.

 

[Chuck S]

Still trying to figure out why that alien ship led the Israellites thru the desert for all those years...

Ummm, maybe their navigation sensors were down?

 

[live4christp1]

So now the schools should be teaching the opinions of Paul, a mortal that lived 2000+ years ago? No, ID has no place in public schools.

Chuck S,


DisDuck asked ID = God or ET, I answered ID = God and that I feel everything we see is to complex to have just happened. Then I posted some verses from Romans that express my belief in why there is such a debate. Nowhere in my post did I say that it needed to be taught in public school. Just can't figure out why all of you on the other side of the fence get so offensive and have to misquote us or add words to our statements. Doesn't offend me at all to discuss my beliefs with anyone and I'm not offened that everybody in the world doesn't agree with me.

Lighten up a little bit.........when you try to hard to push a point, makes me ask "Why? What are they afraid of?"

Smile! It'll be okay!

 

[JennyMominRI]

No, but students should be taught that evolution/Darwinism is a theory & that there are some who believe in various ID theories. Leave it at that & then teach the theory of evolution.

the things is creationism is not a theory in the scientific sense.. It's simply innappropriate to talk about it in science class.