Inspired by Flowers Child

[wvjules]

Anyone care to discuss animal rights?

I'm totally against animal cruelty as most people are, but where do 'animal rights' come from? Is there something about Animal Rights that I missed in the constitution? And what rights do they have? No animal deserves to be tortured but why is killing an animal in a humane way to feed PEOPLE considered cruel? Animals eat other animals. That's the circle of life, right?

If snakes didn't eat rats and other rodents then we'd be over run with them. If there were no hunting can you imagine the increase in the roadkill of deer and other commonly hunted animals. If we didn't eat cows and pigs then what other purpose do they serve? Etc.

Discuss amoungst yourselves.

 

[Laura]

Eating animals is not necessary to live in this day and age. We don't need to kill animals for food. And if you really believe all animals are slaughtered humanely--don't know what hit them--you are mistaken.

We have tampered with the natural order of things; we keep animals in zoos and we destroyed habitats. And besides, aren't we humans supposed to be above this "eat or be eaten" mentality? That's what I believe, at least.

What's more, raising massive numbers of animals for food isn't helping the environment. Land must be cleared for grazing and animal-food-crop growing. Then we slaughter the animal to eat it. Sounds counterproductive to me. We could be growing soybeans for ourselves or something like that instead.

 

[gallaj0]

Animals have the right to be delicious!
No seriously, I think animals have the "right" to be treated with respect, all living things do. But if the "purpose" of the animal is to be served on a bun, then when it's time is up, it's time is up. I think it's more that people have a duty to treat animals with as much respect as possible, while realizing that people have the right to a meal, and that right may override the right of the animal to continue chewing cud and making cow pies.

 

[wvjules]

Just to clarify, I didn't say that ALL animals are slaughtered humanely.

Is Kosher meat meat that has been killed in a humane way?

 

[Randi]

I do not agree with the visable agenda of the animal rights groups. They seek funds by focusing on animal cruelty. Emotions are a powerful motivator for donations. I do not believe most thinking people want to see an animal treated inhumanly.
To me, the opposite of animal cruelty is not animal "rights" but animal welfare. Some animals are destined to become part of the food chain, and I believe they should be treated in a humane manner at all times in their life cycle.

 

[Disney-Kim]

I thought Kosher meant blessed by a Rabbi???

 

[Laura]

Just to clarify, I didn't say that ALL animals are slaughtered humanely.

Is Kosher meat meat that has been killed in a humane way?

Not necessarily, the animal's throat is cut and the blood drains away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shechita

In a nutshell, lots of those against eating meat simply believe it is not necessary to kill animals for food. Humans don't need meat to survive.

 

[wvjules]

Learn something new everyday.
http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm
General Rules
Although the details of kashrut are extensive, the laws all derive from a few fairly simple, straightforward rules:

Certain animals may not be eaten at all. This restriction includes the flesh, organs, eggs and milk of the forbidden animals.

Of the animals that may be eaten, the birds and mammals must be killed in accordance with Jewish law.

All blood must be drained from the meat or broiled out of it before it is eaten.
Certain parts of permitted animals may not be eaten.

Meat (the flesh of birds and mammals) cannot be eaten with dairy. Fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables and grains can be eaten with either meat or dairy. (According to some views, fish may not be eaten with meat).

Utensils that have come into contact with meat may not be used with dairy, and vice versa. Utensils that have come into contact with non-kosher food may not be used with kosher food. This applies only where the contact occurred while the food was hot.

Grape products made by non-Jews may not be eaten.

 

[gallaj0]

Humans don't need meat to survive.

Humans DO need a good source of protien and fat. In many parts of the world, that means animals, rather than soy, etc. that is not readily available, or very expensive.

Developing, growing children expecially need the well balanced diet including these, and other nutrients found in meat for brain and nervous system development.

It's easy to be altruistic in a country where you can walk into a Publix and buy tofu by the pound and afford it.

 

[Laura]

Humans DO need a good source of protien and fat. In many parts of the world, that means animals, rather than soy, etc. that is not readily available, or very expensive.

Developing, growing children expecially need the well balanced diet including these, and other nutrients found in meat for brain and nervous system development.

It's easy to be altruistic in a country where you can walk into a Publix and buy tofu by the pound and afford it.

Absolutely correct. If someone is a person living a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, living out in nature and hunting and fishing for sustenance, that is different. That person is just trying to survive, which we all have a right to do. But generally, nutritionally speaking, humans don't need to eat meat. That is what I meant in the sentence you quoted.

 

[Stacerita]

I dont believe in animal cruelty or that animals should be abused. But I do believe in a good rib-eye or a nice rack of ribs. Granted, I dont need meat to survive, but I like meat. And what would a BBQ be without meat?

Honestly, I dont like the idea of animals being hurt for our benefit, but I do believe in some cases its necessary. Medical testing on animals is a necessary evil IMO. Not the kid down the street who ties firecrackers to a dog's tail.

I have mixed feelings about "no kill shelters". There are not enough resources to care for all the abondoned animals. Shelters try their best to find homes for these animals, but unfortunately, some just are not adoptable and need to be put down. That may be cruel to some, but thats just how it has to be sometimes. Our current pet was found at the pound on the "last day" row. If we didnt get him when we did, he would have been put down the next day. I have also sent a cat to a shelter when we could no longer care for her. But, I paid a hefty sum for them to keep her till she died of old age if they couldn't find her a home. It was worth it to me.

I do have a problem with the animal activist who are destructive and dangerous. There are some groups out here who believe in saving animals by "any means necessary". And when posed with asking if murdering a vet who euthenizes (sp?) animals at the county pound is resonable to them, they stated that is was. Now how can it be ok to murder a vet who is doing his job?

 

[Laura]

I do have a problem with the animal activist who are destructive and dangerous. There are some groups out here who believe in saving animals by "any means necessary". And when posed with asking if murdering a vet who euthenizes (sp?) animals at the county pound is resonable to them, they stated that is was. Now how can it be ok to murder a vet who is doing his job?

Oh, that sort of thing is just heinous. Hypocritical to boot. If someone advocates the right of all animals to live, humans count too.

 

[gallaj0]

There are people all over this world, living in cities, towns, suburbs and villages that can't afford a well balanced nutritious meal right now; not "hunter gatherers" living in nature; there are families in the United States that are malnurished, recieving food stamps, free school lunches, etc.

Kids go to bed hungry every night, they would be better served by eating meat than a tofu dog.

Tofu is a highly processed, labor intensive food item. Expensive to grow, process, transprt and refridgerate.

A cow can be left outside; eats just about anything growing, with very little labor, with a minimal amount of care. You can slaughter it, and start cooking. Then use the hide for leather, the leftovers for sausage, etc. You can use everything but the hooves and horns.

 

[Laura]

There are people all over this world, living in cities, towns, suburbs and villages that can't afford a well balanced nutritious meal right now; not "hunter gatherers" living in nature; there are families in the United States that are malnurished, recieving food stamps, free school lunches, etc.

Kids go to bed hungry every night, they would be better served by eating meat than a tofu dog.

Who's suggesting a tofu dog? I don't eat much tofu myself. Hardly any, as a matter of fact. Besides, I have found being a vegetarian is definitely cheaper than being a meat-eater. I didn't realize it until I became one. A lot of people around the world keep chickens (a big problem now with the bird flu issues), and eat their eggs--fine source of protein. Eventually they'll probably eat the chicken when it's less productive. Same with cows and milk. Killing the animal is counterproductive in these cases.

Funny, certain people seem to act threatened by people who don't eat meat. I guess it's just that weird to some.

 

[FlowersChild]

And just so everyone knows the ALF ( Animal Liberation Front ) does break the law but they take great care to make sure that no animals or humans are harmed.

Here is a link to a website that talks about the ALF http://www.hedweb.com/alffaq.htm

I am going to copy and paste something from that website so here it is

" The A.L.F. guidelines are:

TO liberate animals from places of abuse, i.e. laboratories, factory farms, fur farms, etc., and place them in good homes where they may live out their natural lives, free from suffering.
TO inflict economic damage to those who profit from the misery and exploitation of animals.
TO reveal the horror and atrocities committed against animals behind locked doors, by performing non-violent direct actions and liberations.
TO take all necessary precautions against harming any animal, human and non-human. "

 

[Buckalew11]

cow sausage? Never had it.

 

[gallaj0]

Funny, certain people seem to act threatened by people who don't eat meat. I guess it's just that weird to some.

Not threatened, just not as naive as some people who think the world is divided into big city grocery shoppers and hunter/gatherers.

 

[ktpool]

To me, the opposite of animal cruelty is not animal "rights" but animal welfare.

Well said....

If the animal 'rights' activist ever see what a starving deer or a dying coyote with mange because of overpopulation looks like, they will never forget the misery of that animal. Hunting is conservation.

And, no, I am not a hunter.

 

[roger_ramjet]

And just so everyone knows the ALF ( Animal Liberation Front ) does break the law but they take great care to make sure that no animals or humans are harmed.

Here is a link to a website that talks about the ALF http://www.hedweb.com/alffaq.htm

I am going to copy and paste something from that website so here it is

" The A.L.F. guidelines are:

TO liberate animals from places of abuse, i.e. laboratories, factory farms, fur farms, etc., and place them in good homes where they may live out their natural lives, free from suffering.
TO inflict economic damage to those who profit from the misery and exploitation of animals.
TO reveal the horror and atrocities committed against animals behind locked doors, by performing non-violent direct actions and liberations.
TO take all necessary precautions against harming any animal, human and non-human. "

Folks like ALF are all well and good except that they don't tend to consider the consequences of their actions. I've read of several occasions where organisations such as the ALF have gone and freed a bunch of factory animals, leaving them to fend for themselves in the bush where they get hit by cars and eaten by predators that they are unused to. As sad as it is when animals are maltreated, there is no small irony in the large-scale deaths of these animals when they are 'freed.'

Actions have consequences, and it would help for nutter groups like the ALF to take heed of that.

 

[Laura]

Not threatened, just not as naive as some people who think the world is divided into big city grocery shoppers and hunter/gatherers.

No, my hunter-gatherer example was just that, one example. There are starving people all over the world. There are starving people who are part of the circle of life and hunt and fish. There are starving people who shop at their local street markets. There are starving people in line in homeless shelters. There are starving children at school lunch counters. (Have I missed anyone?) I have not said anywhere that I begrudge people eating meat to survive. I just don't think it's the answer for everyone. (I hardly badger my meat-eating husband about his diet.) But why not take some of the large amounts of land being used for animal grazing and animal feed crops and use them for growing strictly human food instead? I think that sounds pretty good to me. Or maybe I'm just a dreamer.

People are often threatened by something out of their realm. It could be anything, a different religion, a different way of speaking. It's only human nature. I've encountered it a lot as a vegetarian. But most people are just curious.