Inspired by First Lady thread-Who here considers themself to be a feminist?

[minniepumpernickel]

I consider myself a true feminist. It has a lot to do with being comfortable in your own skin. Not feeling like you can't be who you really are, and do or say the things you really want to say.

It's not about not looking girly, or scaring away the men. Most of the men who are decent want a "feminist." The ones who don't have control issues, in my book. Something to think about and perhaps apply to your own life.

 

[Aimeedyan]

Why must every thread drag politics into it? I can't get away! AHHHHH! LOL =) (and yes, I do just skip over the posts that involve politics in them, for whomever is going to tell me to do that anyways) =)

I consider myself a feminist because I believe in equality among the sexes. I am a Christian and do not believe in submissiveness like many conservative Christians do, and find it to be a broad generalization to assume that all Christians believe that or that all Christian denominations teach that. But I don't want to get into that debate, just reminding everyone that not all Christians read the same interpretation of those few choice scriptures used to support that lifestyle.

My husband and I have an equal relationship. Period. Women are just as much human as men, and should be treated as such. Period.

 

[miste76]

I used to consider myself a feminist... I'vealways worked towards bettering myself. I never considered that I could be held back in life because I was a woman and not a man. Then I took a class in college to fulfill a requirement. The class was called issues in feminism. It was the most aggrivating class that I've ever had to sit through, I used to joke that I was going to need anger management classes before the class was over.
This class on feminism was mostly women... women of all ages that sat there and complained about how they've been held back in life because they are women and how they could never be successful because of the glass ceiling. Honestly, I felt that if they didn't like the way something was, they should do something to change it, instead of just complaining about it. These females (from this class) could have been working harder to further their education/research how to start their own company/get a better job. I do believe the professor had good information to share... (about the way we treat female babies as compared to male babies, etc...) but even the professor would complain that she was held back.
So, I no longer consider myself a feminist... I consider myself an individual that is working hard to make the best of my life and I know that I can do whatever I put my mind to - no one is going to hold me back!!!

 

[disney4us2002]

Originally posted by shortbun
So you don't agree that "born again" Christians believe women
should submit to their husbands? I've been told by many that
this is a very strong belief among them.

AND-you think it's good that our leaders are almost all white
men(the rare woman proves the rule). There are NO blacks
in the senate and only a couple women. Never have we had
a black or female President , Vice President. Most churches are
lead by men; I'm an Episcopalian so we have some female ministers and lay people now AND a gay Bishop!! Hurray!
You think that in the year 2004 that white straight men lead
this country-practically the whole world is OK? They don't have
my interests at heart certainly. How about yours?
I just know you are going to say they are keeping you safe.
Been in the inner city lately?

I have reread my post and your reply several times now and I have to admit I'm stumped. I have NO idea where in the world you got from my reply anything about my opinions about white straight men??? I was talking about LB and her devotion, support, and love of GB. I have missed a few of the steps to your jump to men in govt.

For the record I am also Episcopalian. We have a female gay priest with her partner living in our church rectory. I think I have some idea about the world. I don't live in a cave, lol. My area is quite rural however and many of our members have left over the issue of a gay bishop and our gay priest. Our priest is a wonderful person. She is very prayerful and I think has been good at bringing 'God' back to our church if you can understand what I mean (very difficult to put into words what I mean). I do honestly struggle with her lifestyle choice but I don't dwell on that aspect because I believe there is more to what defines a person than his/her sexuality.

I'm not sure what to say about the no blacks in the Senate and only a handful of women as far as why you've pointed this out to me. Thanks for the civics lesson? I didn't know but I rarely follow more than presidential and local politicians. In Md we send Steny Hoyer from this section at least and I'd be thrilled to send nearly anyone else in his place, regardless of color, sex, or sexual preference. As far as I remember from govt studies I cannot vote for any other state's candidates so I can't do much to change the demographics of the Senate personally.

 

[grinningghost]

Wow - this thread reeks of the old Debate Board, doesn't it?

I think the word "feminist" should be tossed right out of the English language. It's got negative connotations.

I am a woman. I am female. I am a human being. Men are men. They are males. They are human beings. Just because we have different equipment, doesn't mean we aren't all human beings - and equal.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by grinningghost
Wow - this thread reeks of the old Debate Board, doesn't it?

I think the word "feminist" should be tossed right out of the English language. It's got negative connotations.

I am a woman. I am female. I am a human being. Men are men. They are males. They are human beings. Just because we have different equipment, doesn't mean we aren't all human beings - and equal.

Yes, but what happens when we walk by a construction site? The guys yell and act stupid. Why is that considered normal? Are we supposed to be greatful that we still look good enough to get that kind of attention?

Are things really all that equal? I'm not really complaining, I'm just bored right now.

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by grinningghost


I think the word "feminist" should be tossed right out of the English language. It's got negative connotations.

Negative connotations to who? Is it right to give them (whoever they might be) the power to dictate the words we use, especially when some people (not just women) find this word so empowering?

 

[poohandwendy]

Originally posted by rcyannacci
Negative connotations to who? Is it right to give them (whoever they might be) the power to dictate the words we use, especially when some people (not just women) find this word so empowering?

I think that is the crux of the issue for me. I don't feel empowered by 'feminism', as it is today. Actually, I don't need a word to empower me.

The movement of the 60's and todays attitudes are worlds apart. Earlier, you posted about the word 'support' and what it means. I am talking about this sort of situation where I have seen 'support' used (in a females should stick together mentality that I don't agree with):

Re the Kobi Bryant case: People saying that it is a shame if a woman does not support the alledged rape victim. That's what always comes up when the issue is discussed.
(I don't believe her story simple as that. I am not going to support her just because we are both females. I am not making it harder for other females to come forward when they are raped because I do not support one 'victim'' with a story I find very unbelieveable)

Just one example. I totally support womens rights to ''speak their positions and engage in those actions (within the law), even if we disagree with what is being said.", but I have to say, I don't know one woman who does not have that right or needs it to be supported in order to have it.

Yes, but what happens when we walk by a construction site? The guys yell and act stupid. Why is that considered normal? Are we supposed to be greatful that we still look good enough to get that kind of attention?

What does the above have to do with equality? And what is 'normal'? Equality doesn't protect us from encountering people who say things to us that we don't like. Nor should it.

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
I think that is the crux of the issue for me. I don't feel empowered by 'feminism', as it is today. Actually, I don't need a word to empower me.

The movement of the 60's and todays attitudes are worlds apart. Earlier, you posted about the word 'support' and what it means. I am talking about this sort of situation where I have seen 'support' used (in a females should stick together mentality that I don't agree with):

Re the Kobi Bryant case: People saying that it is a shame if a woman does not support the alledged rape victim. That's what always comes up when the issue is discussed.
(I don't believe her story simple as that. I am not going to support her just because we are both females. I am not making it harder for other females to come forward when they are raped because I do not support one 'victim'' with a story I find very unbelieveable)

Just one example. I totally support womens rights to ''speak their positions and engage in those actions (within the law), even if we disagree with what is being said.", but I have to say, I don't know one woman who does not have that right or needs it to be supported in order to have it.

Just a few things to respond:

I didn't follow the Kobe Bryant case, so I can't speak to it specifically (I tend not to follow celebrity court cases because they are such a circus). But I wouldn't call your disbelief in one case non-feminist; if (and again, I don't know the case) the media reported on this case the way that they do for many rape cases, putting the identity of the woman on trial and making her justify why the act of violence shouldn't have happened, then I see this as the problem, not one person's disbelief. Again, you don't have to support her position just because she's a woman; but hopefully you support her right to a just trial.

Also, it's nice that you don't need a word to empower you. You sound like a very independent woman. Great. I take comfort in this word, and here's why: it is a word that connects me to people who share the same hopes for the future, to people both inside and outside my own community, to people who are both around me now and who are now gone. Feminism is a word for people who chose to think beyond themselves and thier own situation to consider those still struggling (whether you know them or not). It's a word that not always easy to use and so I see courage in its use.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

Sorry, I'm another one who thinks the whole feminist thing is a whole load of crap. I've felt this way for a long time, although I went to engineering school, had a career in a field dominated by men, and ran with the fire department for 10 years. My experience is that women who talk about equality get obsessed about it, as if it's men's job to fix their lives. If you don't like the direction your life is taking, you do something, don't sit around blaming others.

I recognize that not all people who consider themselves feminists think like this, but it's been my experience and it's shaped the way I view feminists. "Women's Studies" is for the birds--why is it accaptable when "men's studies" would be laughed at? And why do the feminist organizations seem to leap to the defense of any woman (the Kobe Bryant case is a good example--I don't believe the victim, either), regardless of the facts? And why do they claim to be pro-choice, but only if that "choice" is to abort? Sorry, I'm rambling, I just don't "get" the feminist thing.

 

[barbeml]

I hear you, but you can't deny that there was a time when women were not allowed to vote, own property, inherit property, etc. I don't know how old you are, but I am very appreciative of the women who challenged the way things were and made them better for me.

 

[TDC Nala]

I don't like the word feminist because that conjures up a hard hearted woman who doesn't want a family, thinks men are useless etc.

And that is a stereotype. I don't want a family and I don't believe that to be wrong. I don't hate men, in fact, I like them very much - but I'm glad I have the option of going it alone, especially since years ago that option would not have existed.

I do work for shopping money. And for trips to Disney.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by BuzznBelle'smom
Sorry, I'm another one who thinks the whole feminist thing is a whole load of crap. I've felt this way for a long time, although I went to engineering school, had a career in a field dominated by men,

Without feminists, you probably never would have gotten the opportunity to do this! Sometimes it takes extreme people to get things done. Although I read feminist quotes that I disagree with, for the most part, I'm just very grateful!

If feminists hadn't gotten out there in people's faces, our daughters wouldn't be doing the interesting, challenging things that they can do.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

For the record, I'm 40--never understood the whole "lie about your age" thing, either. While I agree that women fought for and got many rights, that was decades ago--I don't see how the present day feminst movement does anything but whine. Feel free to disagree, the question was posted so I answered it.

And it's simply not true that without the feminist movement, I couldn't have gone to engineering school--DH's grandmother was a chemistry teacher during the depression, then went on to get her PhD in electrical engineering. Seriously! She didn't let anyone stand in her way. I wouldn't, either. And you can be sure my daughter wouldn't, regardless of the time she lived in. You have to make your own path, not whine until someone clears it for you.

In fact, I could see how feminism was hurting engineering--when I was in college, there were a whole lot of girls there who shouldn't have gone to engineering school. they just didn't belong there, but the school was trying to improve its male/female ratio. An awful lot of girls I went to college with left the field soon after--they were sold a bill of goods by well-intentioned guidance counselors who thought that sonce they were good in math and science, they should go the engineering route. They would have been happier elsewhere (not sure where--that would depend on the individual).

I do think it's good that people can choose different lifestyles and so forth, but they always could--you just had to be willing to not care what others thought about, say, not having a husband or whatever.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by BuzznBelle'smom


And it's simply not true that without the feminist movement, I couldn't have gone to engineering school--DH's grandmother was a chemistry teacher during the depression, then went on to get her PhD in electrical engineering. Seriously! She didn't let anyone stand in her way. I wouldn't, either. And you can be sure my daughter wouldn't, regardless of the time she lived in. You have to make your own path, not whine until someone clears it for you.

Sorry, but I still disagree because I really think that we can't forget what feminists that came before us did for us (the ones now, I can't really say -- I'm a little out of touch! ) Many women have been teachers (my grandma was one, and one of the only women that went to her college in 1920) -- but did you see them with the big corporate jobs making the big money? Someone did indeed clear a path for us! It's a shame if girls don't know anything about that.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

I agree that we can all be grateul to the women--and men--who came before us. they all certainly made our lives easier. perhaps our disagreement is only over what we should do with that gratitude. Help our daughters become whatever their hearts desire? I agree with that. Help them to appreciate the joys of being female? I'm there, too. I just don't see how a label and a movement (such as it is--what have the feminists done lately, except become shills for the Democratic party?) have to be a part of that. If I thought the feminists were truly out there fighting against some "wrong", I would be right there. I just don't see that over the past 2 or 3 decades. Maybe you see something, and it's important to you--that's great. I'm just not seeing it.

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by auntpolly
Sorry, but I still disagree because I really think that we can't forget what feminists that came before us did for us (the ones now, I can't really say -- I'm a little out of touch! ) Many women have been teachers (my grandma was one, and one of the only women that went to her college in 1920) -- but did you see them with the big corporate jobs making the big money? Someone did indeed clear a path for us! It's a shame if girls don't know anything about that.

I think a lot of girls do, depending on their teachers, and it does make a big difference.

4 years ago when I lived in PA, I was an artist in residence at a middle school. I was contracted in as a theatre specialist by an enrichment teacher to work with a group of young women who were joining a history day competition- they were developing performances from individual research projects.

I worked with a group of 3 girls who had chosen to study Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony and the Seneca Falls Convention. These were all very intelligent, sweet, shy students who were obviously not the popular girls in thier class. Likely since they were in the enrichment program, many saw them as different.

It was amazing to watch these shy girls take on the roles of these strong women, to take the original words of Stanton or Anthony from their letters and speeches and say them outloud with confidence and conviction. It was really hard for them as first- Allison especially was so shy, and it took here a few weeks to find the courage to raise her voice.

They were all so fascinated with their subject, and asked all kinds of great questions about who these women were and why they had to fight so hard for the right to vote. They were shocked to find out how long it took to pass the amendment.

One day, they asked me what it was like to vote for the first time, and I realized that I had never really walked into a voting booth and taken the time to think of it as a privilege. It had just been something that I thought I needed to do. But, the next time I cast my vote, I took a moment to remember both these early feminists and these students. At least two of them will be turning 18 this year, and I'd put money on their participation in this election.

 

[auntpolly]

What a great story, rcyannacci! I'm not sure if people realized how Stanton and Cady were viewed in those days, either. I'm sure they got death threats (not very pop-ular with the fellows! ) I'm sure they were considered just as loud mouthed and unseemly as feminists today!!!!

 

[gina2000]

There are alot of women that don't realize that job opportunities were not regularly offered to qualified women who were married and had children 40 years ago. Many qualified women were passed over because they were women, they were married or they had responsibilities outside of the work environment. I watched Wall Street open up to women in the 70s. It was a long, tough road and while more opportunities do exist for women, it still is not female friendly for the most part. I watched major corporations HAVE to enlist women in managerial positions in the 60s and 70s. Up until that point, women were not given the opportunity that men were....they only could TAKE the opportunity if they were strong enough to wrestle it. There's a big difference between being given the opportunity and taking it.

I've seen ineffectual women AND men in positions they don't belong in. I've seen underqualified women AND men in Universities. Up until the last couple of generations, though, women didn't have the opportunity. There's a big difference between getting the opportunity and deserving it. No one ever said that every woman deserved the opportunity she was given....but I'll guarantee you that every man didn't either.

What should our children do with the opportunities presented to them? Everything that we did. Evaluate what works for them and then pursue their dreams. Feminism isn't outdated...it's just evolved into a belief that women have choices and should choose what is best for them and not shortchange themselves because of preconceived stereotypes. It's up to women to make women aware of all of their choices.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

I spent last evening at a high school girls ball tournament. It crossed my mind that they probably had no idea that not very many years ago they couldn't play college sports because women's teams weren't supported by their schools. Their nice uniforms and quality equipment made me wonder if they'd have that today without Title IX.

Here's a link I found this morning: http://bailiwick.lib.uiowa.edu/ge/

Personally I don't think feminism is outdated or extinct. There's still work to be done to ensure equality for everyone.