Impeach Bush

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auntpolly said:
But I've always thought you could rely on the federal government when all else fails. And now we know we can't.

Then you've dilusioned yourself all these years. All politics are local. Why should I ( in Utah) have to pay for problems in Louisiana? Granted when issues start to affect the county as a whole then the fed govt should step in, but his is Louisiana's problem to solve first. Blame the President once everyone else has proven they've fulfilled their responsibility
 
treesinger said:
As has been stated before, the fed has to be called upon by the local governments first. It is a violation of the state's sovereignty to executively send in troops to a state that has not requested them.
And before anyone even THINKS it...

Despite the fact that I am trumpeting a little personal responsibility from the citizens of the city we used to call New Orleans, I am not advocating in any way that we withhold any support from them. People make mistakes. I've been a bonehead at some times in my life too. And I was grateful for the help I probably didn't deserve. I think we all agree, no matter how stupid it was to stay in NO if you could have left, they need our help and deserve our help. They are Americans.
 
treesinger said:
The local government should have comandeered all available food and water supplies and shipped them to the makeshift shelters while taking the people in. That is, if those people didn't already have the forethought to have their own supplies.

It is sickening to see what has happened because of people that don't listen to warnings or prepare when they are told to. It is also sickening that the local government didn't at least make some attempt to move these people by force if necessary to save their hides.

I guess that is the President's fault.

Aloha!

A true leader would take one look at the images on his TV and TAKE CONTROL of the situation! He can chop heads later if he wants...or place blame..or call people stupid for not leaving..or heck, put 'em all in jail for not evacuating...but how any American president could be sitting there knowing what is happening without demanding IMMEDIATE action to relieve the suffering of HIS people...well..that is NOT what I expect from an AMERICAN PRESIDENT!
~Rose~
 
Mickey's Monkey said:
Then you've dilusioned yourself all these years. All politics are local. Why should I ( in Utah) have to pay for problems in Louisiana? Granted when issues start to affect the county as a whole then the fed govt should step in, but his is Louisiana's problem to solve first. Blame the President once everyone else has proven they've fulfilled their responsibility
And here I am on the other side of the coin defending Auntpolly. I didn't see that coming.

Federal taxes are for federal programs which are supposed to assist Americans in need all across the country. This includes disaster relief. We all pay for fires in Colorado, mudslides in California, Hurricanes, tornadoes...you name it. We are Americans and we should all help each other.
 

here is the statement from the president yesterday about what action has been put into place by the Federal Government

Our first priority is to save lives. We're assisting local officials in New Orleans in evacuating any remaining citizens from the affected area. I want to thank the state of Texas, and particularly Harris County, and the city of Houston and officials with the Houston Astrodome for providing shelter to those citizens who found refuge in the Superdome in Louisiana. Buses are on the way to take those people from New Orleans to Houston.

FEMA's deployed more than 50 disaster medical assistance teams from all across the country to help the affected -- to help those in the affected areas. FEMA's deployed more than 25 urban search-and- rescue teams with more than a thousand personnel to help save as many lives as possible. The United States Coast Guard is conducting search-and-rescue missions. They're working alongside local officials, local assets.

The Coast Guard has rescued nearly 2,000 people to date.

The Department of Defense is deploying major assets to the region. These include the USS Batton to conduct search-and-rescue missions, eight swift water rescue teams, the Iwo Jima Amphibious Readiness Group to help with disaster response equipment and the hospital ship, USNS Comfort to help provide medical care.

The National Guard is nearly 11,000 guardsmen on state active duty to assist governors and local officials with security and disaster response efforts. FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers are working around the clock with Louisiana officials to repair the breaches in the levees, so we can stop the flooding in New Orleans.

Our second priority is to sustain lives by ensuring adequate food, water, shelter and medical supplies for survivors and dedicated citizens -- or dislocated citizens. FEMA's moving supplies and equipment into the hardest hit areas. The Department of Transportation has provided more than 400 trucks to move a thousand truck loads containing 5.4 million meals ready to eat or MREs, 13.4 million liters of water, 10,400 tarps, 3.4 million pounds of ice, 144 generators, 20 containers of pre-positioned disaster supplies, 135,000 blankets and 11,000 cots, and we're just starting.

There are more than 78,000 people now in shelters. HHS and CDC are working with local officials to identify operating hospital facilities, so we can help them, help the nurses and doctors provide necessary medical care. They're distributing medical supplies, and they're executing a public health plan to control disease and other health-related issues that might arise.

Our third priority is executing a comprehensive recovery effort. We are focusing on restoring power and lines of communication that have been knocked out during the storm. We'll be repairing major roads and bridges and other essential means of transportation as quickly as possible.
 
Mai Ku Tiki said:
Aloha!

A true leader would take one look at the images on his TV and TAKE CONTROL of the situation! He can chop heads later if he wants...or place blame..or call people stupid for not leaving..or heck, put 'em all in jail for not evacuating...but how any American president could be sitting there knowing what is happening without demanding IMMEDIATE action to relieve the suffering of HIS people...well..that is NOT what I expect from an AMERICAN PRESIDENT!
~Rose~
So what you are saying is that the President should overstep his bounds--break the law--and jump right in. Wow, have your cake and eat it too. Get fed help faster as well as proof that the President has violated the Constitution. Nicely done.
 
Here in Texas we will see the refugees come pouring in. We welcome them gladly. Friends of ours are preparing their camp/ranch for 250 people.
Yes we should help each other in time of need. I would pay out of my pocket every day to not have gone thru what they have.
 
Gymbomom said:
Here in Texas we will see the refugees come pouring in. We welcome them gladly. Friends of ours are preparing their camp/ranch for 250 people.
Yes we should help each other in time of need. I would pay out of my pocket every day to not have gone thru what they have.
God bless you and your friends and the great state of Texas!
 
treesinger said:
So what you are saying is that the President should overstep his bounds--break the law--and jump right in. Wow, have your cake and eat it too. Get fed help faster as well as proof that the President has violated the Constitution. Nicely done.

The President had promised both the governor and mayor that he would provide FEDERAL help even BEFORE Katrina hit! They had already formally requested FED AID and he had agreed..But talk is real cheap and
people are STILL dying of THIRST! WHERE IS THE WATER?
~Rose~
 
Mai Ku Tiki said:
The President had promised both the governor and mayor that he would provide FEDERAL help even BEFORE Katrina hit! They had already formally requested FED AID and he had agreed..But talk is real cheap and
people are STILL dying of THIRST! WHERE IS THE WATER?
~Rose~

You simply don't understand what this means. And I'm not going to waste the time it would take explaining it to you.
 
Caradana said:
While the idea of a strong local government is a beautiful Republican ideal, our fiscal structure isn't set up to support it, and, honestly, our talent pool simply isn't that deep. Think of the mayor of your town. Do you think he'd be able to handle its total destruction with smarts and savvy? He's probably not that bright a guy. If he is, he surely has a career in front of him that involves state and federal government, right? The cream rises to the top.

YES, I think the feds should duplicate the efforts of the local communities when it comes to emergency preparedness and homeland security - and I say this as a woman who walks by U.S. Army soldiers with semiautomatic weapons on 42nd Street every day. This fall of New Orleans, honestly, is an issue of homeland security.

I have to tell you..I'm in Buffalo..and our government from the mayor to the county executive are so inept that if we had an emergency we'd be screwed here. They can't even run the city or county without a control board now, how they would manage in an emergency I don't even want to think of it.

Way back in 1977 we had a huge snowstorm (blizzard) people died or were stranded for days and the mayor at the time told us to get a 6 pack and stay home.
 
Is it just me or does anyone else see an inherent flaw in the fact that the local gvt needs to ask for help from the feds if there is a catostrophic statewide emergency?

Thats what I've gotten from this thread. Is that true?

I mean, its not like only one city had problems. Its the whole gulf coast. Why should the local gvt have to ask for help when they are so obviously in dire straights?

Its not like the whole city just had a power burnout or anything. This is far beyond what any local or state gvt could be expected to handle alone.
 
See, I don't think leaders should take care of people...I think they should be able to help people take care of themselves when they need that help.

I don't think we should expect our leaders...from local to federal to be able to take care of us. I think we should be looking for individuals who are smart enough to gather the resources needed to respond to an emergency. They should be the organizers of others...the leaders. Not Parents.

And I DO absolutely think we, as communities, CAN learn to organize ourselves to be able to respond to disasters. The problem is that we look to others to handle it. We should be all saying what can we do to help? And I am talking about the victims too.

That is one difference I am seeing between the tsunami victims and the Katrina victims on TV....too many of the Katrina disaster are not responding as a community and helping...they are numb, hording and paralyzed. (I am talking about the totally able bodied). With the tsunami...I saw more victims becoming leaders. Just what I am observing.

ETA, I am not trying to 'blame the victim'...I am simply observing the differences that I think are adding to the chaos and rendering it more difficult to aid those who need our help.
 
poohandwendy said:
That is one difference I am seeing between the tsunami victims and the Katrina victims on TV....too many of the Katrina disaster are not responding as a community and helping...they are numb, hording and paralyzed. (I am talking about the totally able bodied). With the tsunami...I saw more victims becoming leaders. Just what I am observing.

I think I mentioned this on on another thread (or maybe it was this one, I've lost track :)

This particular group of people are extremely low on our the socio-economic ladder. They've been used to having the government (local, state and federal) provide everything for them. There's simply no possibility that they'd be able to step up in a disaster situation. They weren't even able to do it in their every day lives.
 
treesinger said:
So what you are saying is that the President should overstep his bounds--break the law--and jump right in. Wow, have your cake and eat it too. Get fed help faster as well as proof that the President has violated the Constitution. Nicely done.
Going over the facts again, I was wrong on one point. The President did already declare a state of disaster a full day ahead of time. Ahead of local government request. It was also noted how rarely this is done.
Anyway, in Bush's speech, this was how supplies started getting into NO on day one rather than starting on day three which is normally what happens. Was it enough? No. Because no one could have foreseen the absolute destruction that was coming. Damage, yes. Out and out destruction? No. Thank God at least some supplies were getting there on day one or things would be much much worse.
 
bsnyder said:
I think I mentioned this on on another thread (or maybe it was this one, I've lost track :)

This particular group of people are extremely low on our the socio-economic ladder. They've been used to having the government (local, state and federal) provide everything for them. There's simply no possibility that they'd be able to step up in a disaster situation. They weren't even able to do it in their every day lives.
Not that I don't agree with you, but isn't that a bit of a low blow while they are starving and dehydrating whether or not it is their fault to bring that up?
 
treesinger said:
Going over the facts again, I was wrong on one point. The President did already declare a state of disaster a full day ahead of time. Ahead of local government request. It was also noted how rarely this is done.
Anyway, in Bush's speech, this was how supplies started getting into NO on day one rather than starting on day three which is normally what happens. Was it enough? No. Because no one could have foreseen the absolute destruction that was coming. Damage, yes. Out and out destruction? No. Thank God at least some supplies were getting there on day one or things would be much much worse.

I'd disagree that no one could have forseen the absolute destruction. It's been discussed ad nauseum for years and years. The exact scenario we've seen unfold.

But the federal government is not expected to have their resources in place for about 72 hours, regardless of who calls whom and when the declarations are made. Until then, the locals need to have contingency plans in place. And they sure didn't!
 
This particular group of people are extremely low on our the socio-economic ladder. They've been used to having the government (local, state and federal) provide everything for them. There's simply no possibility that they'd be able to step up in a disaster situation. They weren't even able to do it in their every day lives.
I agree that they are used to being taken care of, but many of the tsunami victims were not in any better socio-economic shape. A great many.

I think this is a very good example of the fact that we do not help people by making them dependents. We help them by teaching them how to help themselves. Obviously before something like this happens.
 
poohandwendy said:
See, I don't think leaders should take care of people...I think they should be able to help people take care of themselves when they need that help.

I don't think we should expect our leaders...from local to federal to be able to take care of us. I think we should be looking for individuals who are smart enough to gather the resources needed to respond to an emergency. They should be the organizers of others...the leaders. Not Parents.

And I DO absolutely think we, as communities, CAN learn to organize ourselves to be able to respond to disasters. The problem is that we look to others to handle it. We should be all saying what can we do to help? And I am talking about the victims too.

That is one difference I am seeing between the tsunami victims and the Katrina victims on TV....too many of the Katrina disaster are not responding as a community and helping...they are numb, hording and paralyzed. (I am talking about the totally able bodied). With the tsunami...I saw more victims becoming leaders. Just what I am observing.

ETA, I am not trying to 'blame the victim'...I am simply observing the differences that I think are adding to the chaos and rendering it more difficult to aid those who need our help.
Right! I was thinking to myself, "where are the natural leaders here?" In times of crisis, there are people who step up and organize things. They organize a crew and set about getting food and water, even if they have to loot to get it. I don't mind looting for survival in this case. They help in the distribution of supplies. They stand as a rock for the people to lean on. Where are they?!?! Are there none or is the media not showing them?
 
treesinger said:
Not that I don't agree with you, but isn't that a bit of a low blow while they are starving and dehydrating whether or not it is their fault to bring that up?

I don't see how it's a low blow. It's simply a fact. To pretend otherwise would do what? Spare them hurt feelings? I don't think that matters at this point.

But maybe we'll look around and do some things differently from now on.
 
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