I'm put out--vent

[luv2sew]

Having been through alot of this with friends and reletives kids. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink....so maybe you need a new tactic.....make them get a job...do not support them with any spending money, take away all the unnecessary things that you pay for like the cell phone and computer high speed access and let them figure out how much they like the nice things in life and how much they need to earn in a job to support their habit for nice things in life.

 

[golfgal]

Even so, this is a far cry from the need for a college education. There are too many people out there that think that kids without degrees are losers with no shot in life. I know too many very successful people who have never stepped foot on a college campus to agree with that. People with million dollar homes and six figure incomes. We have developed an elitist mentality, wherein our view of our fellow man is skewed by incorrect preconceptions...

And if you go back and actually READ my first post on this subject you will see that I said that people need at least an associates degree which is exactly what they need here to become a plumber, electrician, etc. so they DO need a degree. It has nothing to do with an elitist mentality and everything to do with reality. The wealthiest people I know are plumbers and electricians but they are certainly not the ones in million dollar houses. In our area if you only have a high school diploma you get to work where you ask people all day long "would you like to supersize that". Reality here.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

And if you go back and actually READ my first post on this subject you will see that I said that people need at least an associates degree which is exactly what they need here to become a plumber, electrician, etc. so they DO need a degree. It has nothing to do with an elitist mentality and everything to do with reality. The wealthiest people I know are plumbers and electricians but they are certainly not the ones in million dollar houses. In our area if you only have a high school diploma you get to work where you ask people all day long "would you like to supersize that". Reality here.

Then I just need to remember not to move to MN...

 

[luv2sew]

But I also agree not everyone is cut out for college and I also think that you don't have to only go to those big name colleges to get a great education...because it's not where you learned it but what you do with what you learn.

My son got into a nice technical school without even taking one of those sat or act tests..he just came home one day and said he found a school he thought he'd like to go to but he hadn't taken the tests because he was going to go to a local community college and didn't need to take them for that. He was accepted within 2 weeks into the associates degree program that they don't require the tests for....but because they are a tech school they know their students and they have the programs designed that the first 2 year of both degrees, associates and bachelors, are the same classes so that any of the kids that want to remain after the associates degree can do so without any extra time past 4 years in college. This school is also an extension of an awesome university in our state. Oh and there are many other technical degrees that can be obtained other than cosmetology and many of them great paying jobs.

 

[quentina]

Sorry, just not true. I have several people working for me that have never been in a college and make six figure salaries...

I agree with this.....I am only in college now, I returned after a 18 year leave. I have a great paying job with a secure company.

I think you need to "want" it. One day, I woke up and discovered a need to finish my degree. I enrolled and am glad to say, I have a 3.9 GPA! 18 years ago....I am surprised they didn't kick me out.

It will happen....it just needs to come from her!

 

[surfergirl602]

Wow. From reading your post, you sound like an overbearing, pressuring parent, and at 16, I would be pretty put out with you, in all honesty, and would probably NOt study, just to tick you off. LOL Not all kids desire to go to a #1 college. It's not the end of the world if people don't go to Harvard or Yale. Some don't go at all. She's 16, and more concerned about boys right now, than college and tests. It kind of sounds like you want her to live your life, and not choose one of her own. I do think that teens do need some health hudges in the right direction, I'm glad my mom helped me, but I didn't get serious until senior year. And I'm a college theatre major. It's hard work, and rewarding. So please don't dismiss us. Give her some time, have a heart to heart talk about what her future plans are, and see if she's interested in talking about future goals with the guidance councelors at school. Good luck!!

 

[golfgal]

Wow. From reading your post, you sound like an overbearing, pressuring parent, and at 16, I would be pretty put out with you, in all honesty, and would probably NOt study, just to tick you off. LOL Not all kids desire to go to a #1 college. It's not the end of the world if people don't go to Harvard or Yale. Some don't go at all. She's 16, and more concerned about boys right now, than college and tests. It kind of sounds like you want her to live your life, and not choose one of her own. I do think that teens do need some health hudges in the right direction, I'm glad my mom helped me, but I didn't get serious until senior year. And I'm a college theatre major. It's hard work, and rewarding. So please don't dismiss us. Give her some time, have a heart to heart talk about what her future plans are, and see if she's interested in talking about future goals with the guidance councelors at school. Good luck!!

First-no one here is talking about Harvard and Yale. Second-I will be curious when your kids are juniors in high school and sluffing off and see how your opinion changes.

 

[portocall]

Well, my mother went to school during my younger years to become a CPA. I am sure she THOUGHT she was being a great role model, woman can do whatever they want kind of person. In actuality, school terrorized me. I kept waiting for the day that I would be assigned math problems that took many pages to solve (I get hives even thinking about math to this day). I had my own learning issues to deal with and school did not come easily for me until late into high school. I never even took the ACT or SAT because I knew I was community college bound (despite the fact that I scored well on the PSAT and had a decent GPA) due to financial and maturity issues. I think I would have a true heart to heart about what she wants and how she plans on going about getting there. And offer your support. You might want to offer her a challenge to see if she can bring the ACT score up (you scored 16 without even studying, what can you do if you did study? or if you get it up to _ the (thing) you been clamoring for.... I will get it for you.... you know the personality of your girl and what will work for her)

 

[Buckalew11]

My 16 yo DD found out her ACT score today also. She homeschools so it is basically an independent study type of thing as a 10th grader. Anyway, she read the OP and said maybe try having her work at a McDonald's or something and it might make her rethink school and studying.
I don't know the answer. My DD is too studious and driven at this point and we have to reel her in and slow her down. Of course, with that comes perfection and all that which is very hard to deal with on the other end of the spectrum.

We were told the college's would start by looking at their grades when they are freshman on up so it was important to start HS in gear and not wait until it is almost too late.

I have a friend who's dd took the ACT 3 or 4 times and scored a 17 everytime. She had a decent GPA byt that score kept her from going to UT and she had to attend a community college which was not where she wanted to go.

They really tend to look at those scores and I think they should but should also look at their GPA and the kid as a package. How hard will the study and work? Etc.

Anyway, the thread has been really hard for me to read through for the most part because it really sounds like people tend to down hairstylists like it is "all we can do". I graduated 11th in my class of about 500 and I know I could have done something else but I wanted to do hair. I'm just hoping the people who put their hair and "looks" into my hands each month don't think I'm a lowly hairdresser too.

 

[Magic Mom]

My 16 yo DD found out her ACT score today also. She homeschools so it is basically an independent study type of thing as a 10th grader. Anyway, she read the OP and said maybe try having her work at a McDonald's or something and it might make her rethink school and studying.

SMart girl.DS worked fast food for his Jr and Sr year, and that worked better than any lecture I could have given him. He did NOT want to work there any longer than necessary! His interest in his future doubled when he got a taste of that job.

 

[luvsJack]

You said it yourself, you cannot make a kid care. You cannot make them want to go to school or to do well in their classes.

We see kids everyday that mom or dad pressures their child to start school. "You need to do this". A month later they have dropped out, are on financial aid suspension and/or academic suspension--not good. And we have as many come to us from the local university in this shape, as we do leaving us in this shape. They have to go to school and succeed because its what THEY want to do, not because mom and dad think they need to or want them to or hope they do.

Believe it or not there are decent jobs out there that don't require a degree. Sometimes a little while in one of those job gives a kid time to decide what they want to do.

 

[cuethemusic]

It sounds like she's got parent's who are putting a LOT of pressure on her and aren't encouraging what she wants to do (theatre and dance). Most theatre programs i'm familiar with put their main attentions on the auditions when considering students. She doesn't need to go to a top rank college to get a perfectly good education, and honestly it sounds like the high rank colleges would probably make her miserable if she's already expressed a dislike for school in general. When it comes down to it, she can still have a wonderfully successful life after being a theatre major at a college she likes and is right for her versus a high pressure, stressful college Mom and Dad pushed on her.

I had friends that took the ACT MANY times. First time is almost never their highest score and maybe if you did something to get her excited about college it will help her get motivated to try harder in school- perhaps see if she is interested in auditioning workshops, summer programs, visiting the theatre/dance programs of colleges expresses interest in and talking to some of the instructors.

 

[Buckalew11]

SMart girl.DS worked fast food for his Jr and Sr year, and that worked better than any lecture I could have given him. He did NOT want to work there any longer than necessary! His interest in his future doubled when he got a taste of that job.

Hey, she used to play b-ball and I knew I didn't want to work in food when I worked the concession stand!! "A good man knows his limitations"--that was definitely one of mine!

 

[Sparx]

Wrong. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

I can see that everyone is dancing around this fact, but I'll just spit it out. You're not 16, and you're obviously not dealing with the 16 year old job market. The people you work with are from an age where not everyone went to college. They have been working for many years and gained experience that will rate them over a new graduate. However, today more students than ever have gone to college, and the numbers keep going up. When this girl in question is ready to enter the professional job market, she will be competing with people who DO have a degree in the field she wants to be in. And yes, art degrees do matter. Its rare that a non-college educated person makes 6 figures a year, obviously you understand this, since you had the urge to tell everyone that you know so many of them. this is not the norm, and to tout that it is does a disservice to many, many students and future students.

The education gap is only getting wider, most high school graduates do go to college, and many get a 2/4 year degree. There isn't that mass of high school graduates without a college degree that existed twenty or thirty years ago. College is more than the education you get in a classroom. She will make connections with professionals in her field (her professors) and her fellow classmates that will continue to help her for the rest of her life.

Does everyone need to go to college? possibly not. But has it ever hurt anyone? No. Never. Having an education has never damaged someone. If the only outcome was that they were exposed to more than they would have been otherwise, it is still worth it.

You said you didn't want to get into statistics, but i think that's becuase you won't find any that support your claim. Here are some that prove you wrong.

According to the cenus bureau:
A high school graduate will, in their lifetime earn 1.2 million dollars.
A holder of a Bachelors degree (in any field) will earn 2.1 million dollars.

In 2008 38% of students graduated from college in four years or less, while 58% graduated in 5-7 years.

According to the ACT, more students are STAYING in college, verses dropping out (72% return)

According to the census bureau:
Workers 18 and over sporting bachelors degrees earn an average of $51,206 a year, while those with a high school diploma earn $27,915. But wait, there's more. Workers with an advanced degree make an average of $74,602, and those without a high school diploma average $18,734.

According to ERIC digest:
80 percent of all students--enroll either in public 4-year colleges or in public 2-year colleges

According to report published by the Institute for Higher Education Policy reviews the individual benefits that college graduates enjoy, including higher levels of saving, increased personal/professional mobility, improved quality of life for their offspring, better consumer decision making, and more hobbies and leisure activities.

According to According to a report published by the Carnegie Foundation, non-monetary individual benefits of higher education include the tendency for post-secondary students to become more open-minded, more cultured, more rational, more consistent and less authoritarian; these benefits are also passed along to succeeding generations.

According to The Economics of American Higher Education:
"parental schooling levels (after controlling for differences in earnings) are positively correlated with the health status of their children" and "increased schooling (and higher relative income) are correlated with lower mortality rates for given age brackets"

According to Is There Too Much Emphasis on Getting a 4-Year College Degree? Students who do not complete a 4 year degree tend to earn around the same bracket as students who do complete a 2 year degree.

And i could go on and on and on. I've listed how a college education improves the quality of life overall, through many different avenues, including financial gain, better health, and overall happiness.

There is no way to say that college is a bad thing. Yes, you know a few people who make some money without going to college, but this is not the norm. This has never been the norm. This will never be the norm. They are exceptions to the rule, and very lucky people who have worked incredibly hard to get the work experience to carry their resume, where a college degree would.

 

[mumom95]

SMart girl.DS worked fast food for his Jr and Sr year, and that worked better than any lecture I could have given him. He did NOT want to work there any longer than necessary! His interest in his future doubled when he got a taste of that job.

OMG. I worked at the little snack bar at Kmart one summer before college. I can honestly say that was the single biggest incentive I had for doing well in college. I remember the woman I worked with saying "only 10 more years of working here until I can retire". 10 YEARS!! At times I wasn't sure I would make it through the summer, I couldn't imagine having a job like that for 30 years.

Anytime I felt like slacking off in college, I just remembered that woman saying "10 more year" to get my rear back in gear.

 

[cuethemusic]

There is no way to say that college is a bad thing.

False, but that's an argument for a different day.

 

[Jennasis]

I personally know at least one kid for whom college was an extremely bad thing.

 

[omghidanielle]

I read this whole thread, but if this has been brought up, I'm sorry for repeating, but!

If she isn't one for school, why would you push for a big state school? She would probably do better at a smaller school with a smaller student/teacher ratio where she will get more attention. I know it was said that cost was an issue, but think of it this way, why put out a little bit of money for her to get lost in a giant sea of people, when putting out a little more, she has the opportunity to have a tighter relationship with her professors who may be able to help steer her in the right direction?

 

[tomthebarncat]

School or work, kid, those are the choices and school beats work anyday. You have the rest of your life to work and you will. I dropped out of college twice when my father was paying for it. I was having too much fun! I later went back and when paying for it myself I finally took it seriously. If I would have stayed in the school on my Dad's buck, I would have a PHd or something equivelent and would not have had to borrow 30 grand in student loans. My dad was right! I am now 47 years and am counting down the years until I retire.

 

[tomthebarncat]

I read this whole thread, but if this has been brought up, I'm sorry for repeating, but!

If she isn't one for school, why would you push for a big state school? She would probably do better at a smaller school with a smaller student/teacher ratio where she will get more attention. I know it was said that cost was an issue, but think of it this way, why put out a little bit of money for her to get lost in a giant sea of people, when putting out a little more, she has the opportunity to have a tighter relationship with her professors who may be able to help steer her in the right direction?

I disagree with poor test scores and an average GPA she will be lucky to get into any good school. Why should mom and dad, spend more money? this makes no sense to me! She clearly does not take her schoolwork seriously. Maybe a community college would be a good place for her to start or possibly the military. It certainly was the kick in the pants that I needed when I dropped out of college. To the OP what does your daughter think she is going to do when she grows up if she doesn't have an education?