I'm put out--vent

[DisneyBamaFan]

Yes, DD16 really does want to go to college. DS23 does not.

Then I would tell her that it is time to prove it. It isn't enough just to say the words. Maybe she is just saying that to make you happy?

 

[minkydog]

Maybe not everyone is cut out for college but in this day and age if they don't AT LEAST get a 2 year degree their main focus for a career will be how fast you flip burgers--sad but true. Good luck getting hired ANYWHERE without some kind of degree.

Yeah, my son is finding this out. He has been unemployed since last Feb when his company folded. He was an asst manager for a computer store and he's actually quite a good salesman. He was making a decent salary too, for a kid with just a 1-1/2 of college. He has waited tables in the past and made good money at that too. It all his theater training.

DS is on unemployment and if he doesn't get serious about finding a job he's going to be in a pickle. The thing is, he wants to get paid like he was in his last job but he doesn't want to start at an entry level position. He has been offered some jobs but he felt they were "beneath him." Heck, money is money. Short of the oldest profession, I really wouldn't care where the money came from. I think wha'ts going to happen with him is he's going to get to the last week or two before the unemployment runs out and there will be a great flurry of activity and gnashing of teeth.

 

[minkydog]

Then I would tell her that it is time to prove it. It isn't enough just to say the words. Maybe she is just saying that to make you happy?

I'm sure that if she could be a dancer and work in theater *without* a college education she would go for that. Personally, I think that would narrow her field of options but if she chose to do it that way, we'd stand aside and let her do it. Long as we don't have to pay her bills.

 

[golfgal]

Sorry, just not true. I have several people working for me that have never been in a college and make six figure salaries...

For 99.9% of the country it IS true--you are by far the exception rather then the rule.

Yes. We are starting our college go-sees this semester, hoping to finish up by August if we can. There are three residential 2yr community colleges in GA,they are feeder schools to GAs state universities. She has not given any thought to them because they don't have good theater & dance depts. However, I'm thinking that she needs to apply because I highly doubt she's going to get into any University System school. I think talking to the admissions couselors is a good idea. If she gets feedback from someone else she seems to listen better.
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Is there some way you can visit her number one school sooner then this summer, like in the next week or two while the score is fresh in her mind? Her grades THIS YEAR are really what is important for school applications for next year. If she can improve her grades for the last part of this year, it will help her, a LOT.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

For 99.9% of the country it IS true--you are by far the exception rather then the rule...

I don't want to get into percentages, because they would just be made up. But I can tell you this - people with a marketable skill make very good livings, with or without a college degree. Carpenters, electricians, welders, IT technicians, salesmen - the list goes on and on. Some of the wealthiest people on the planet never went to college, or didn't finish...

 

[minkydog]

For 99.9% of the country it IS true--you are by far the exception rather then the rule.



Is there some way you can visit her number one school sooner then this summer, like in the next week or two while the score is fresh in her mind? Her grades THIS YEAR are really what is important for school applications for next year. If she can improve her grades for the last part of this year, it will help her, a LOT.

Yes, we're planning to go to one in March. Its the one she is most interested in, has a great theater & dance dept,has fine arts scholarships, is a state school, and accepts lower GPAs and ACTs. And her drama coach has recommended her. I wish I could take her out of school a few times to go visit these schools, but with her grades in the balance I don't dare. They're on block scheduling, so missing a day is like missing 2 days and it's unexcused unless they're a senior.

 

[minkydog]

- people with a marketable skill make very good livings, with or without a college degree. Carpenters, electricians, welders, IT technicians, salesmen - the list goes on and on. ..

I wish my kids would understand this, too. My brother is a boat mechanic and he doesn't even get out of bed for less than $50/hour. He makes more money than he knows what to do with, and no college degree. However, he has taken a LOT of special classes and is one of only a few Yamaha Master Mechanics in the Southeast.

 

[mjkacmom]

Have you tried the audition route for theater. Grades and test scores do not matter all that much if she has a great audition for a performance based program.

And an awesome resume! My neighbor graduated in the top of her class at a private school, great grades and test scores, and didn't get into all of the theater departments she wanted (although could've easily got in with a traditional program). She's in an irish band (that plays in NYC), has had a lead in every production she's ever been in, has one many awards with theater companies in the area (Paper Mill, NJPAC here in NJ), and has been dancing since the age of 5. It's TOUGH to get into a good theater program!

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I wish my kids would understand this, too. My brother is a boat mechanic and he doesn't even get out of bed for less than $50/hour. He makes more money than he knows what to do with, and no college degree. However, he has taken a LOT of special classes and is one of only a few Yamaha Master Mechanics in the Southeast.

The thing that I find most common in people who have success is a drive to be the best that they can be at whatever they do. A desire to do the best that they can every day. Not just some vague feeling, but something that gets them out of the bed in the morning and gets them moving. Something that pushes them to learn more about their profession that everyone else. Something that doesn't settle for "good enough".

In your brother's case, he took mechanic classes. In another friend's case, he took management and IT classes, in another friend's case, he took psychology classes (a salesman). Yes - that means that education is essential, but not necessarily college. The only essential piece is the drive to succeed...

 

[golfgal]

I don't want to get into percentages, because they would just be made up. But I can tell you this - people with a marketable skill make very good livings, with or without a college degree. Carpenters, electricians, welders, IT technicians, salesmen - the list goes on and on. Some of the wealthiest people on the planet never went to college, or didn't finish...

ALL of these professions need a degree of some sort as well as an apprenticeship. Good luck getting an interview for any decent sales job without a college degree these days. NONE hires high school grads without some sort of post-secondary education these days. Again, we are talking about now, 2010, not something that happened 30 years ago that put people in position to be wealthy today.

 

[Christine]

Only 2 years ago, my DD was sitting in a very similar place as your DD. Like you, her high school has about a 99% rate of students going to college. My DD very much wanted to go to college because, for her peer group, that's what you do. Unfortunately, she doesn't study well, has testing problems, and doesn't overly like school that much.

She took the SAT and got a fairly low score (she took a prep class for it too). She then took the ACT and got a 23. This, coupled with her 2.5 GPA, got her turned down for a total of six Virginia state public universities. I was all set to send her to community college because I believe that's where she belongs. A well-meaning family friend who has some pull at an out-of-state university (which was only a few hours away) managed to get them to look at her file and accept her. That's where she is now. She loves it. However, she still struggles horribly with her classes. College is probably not where she belongs right now. It's very much a maturity issue. She's not naturally brilliant so, in order to make good grades and decent test scores she has to *want* to put in the work. She will probably realize that when she's about 23.

In the meantime, I have wracked my brain as to what a young, petite girl can get a skill in besides hair/cosmetology. My DH is an master electrician so we are very familiar with all the trades. VERY few women in those trades and the ones that are are not dainty flowers like my DD!

So, what's a girly-girl to do if she doesn't learn a skill in college. What sort of non-college career path can she follow?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

ALL of these professions need a degree of some sort as well as an apprenticeship. Good luck getting an interview for any decent sales job without a college degree these days. NONE hires high school grads without some sort of post-secondary education these days. Again, we are talking about now, 2010, not something that happened 30 years ago that put people in position to be wealthy today.

Wrong. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...In the meantime, I have wracked my brain as to what a young, petite girl can get a skill in besides hair/cosmetology. My DH is an master electrician so we are very familiar with all the trades. VERY few women in those trades and the ones that are are not dainty flowers like my DD!

So, what's a girly-girl to do if she doesn't learn a skill in college. What sort of non-college career path can she follow?

One of my wife's best friends was a steam pipe fitter in NYC. She took the test, passed, and because they don't have many women, was brought in almost immediately to begin her apprenticeship. Not for a "girly-girl", but it pays AWESOME! And forget getting fired. The unions have to keep their minority numbers up, so women almost never get hurt by layoffs in those fields...

 

[golfgal]

Wrong. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

You are also entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

NJ must be different because here you can NOT get your electrical, contractors or plumbing license, etc. without the proper coursework and apprenticeship. You can't just hang out a shingle and say "I'm a plumber", sorry, it doesn't happen here. Even to be a bricklayer you have to take classes at the vo-tech and find someone to take you on as an apprentice.

 

[princess.chell]

My parents are going through the same thing with my younger brother (newly 16 a sophomore). He hasn't taken the ACT yet, but he isn't taking school seriously at all. My parents have tried everything: grounding, taking away phone and computer, talking to him, studying with him. The studying with him, which I do too (I'm 18 and a senior), has helped but its coming down to them taking away golf for next year if his grades don't improve. His grades are going up now with that threat and also my parents arranged for him to talk to the varsity coach who basically told him two C's is not acceptable for the team and he will not be playing if it continues. Our school has high academic standards for athletes and, baring special circumstances, hold them all to it.
Maybe if her drama teacher talked to her it would help because its coming from someone other than her parents?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

You are also entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

NJ must be different because here you can NOT get your electrical, contractors or plumbing license, etc. without the proper coursework and apprenticeship. You can't just hang out a shingle and say "I'm a plumber", sorry, it doesn't happen here. Even to be a bricklayer you have to take classes at the vo-tech and find someone to take you on as an apprentice.

Almost all of that is handled by the unions up here. Take a test (general test - not industry specific), get accepted, and begin the apprenticeship. The union handles training - some classroom, but most in the field/on the job. But the key point - none of that training is in college, and it certainly isn't a degree program...

 

[golfgal]

Only 2 years ago, my DD was sitting in a very similar place as your DD. Like you, her high school has about a 99% rate of students going to college. My DD very much wanted to go to college because, for her peer group, that's what you do. Unfortunately, she doesn't study well, has testing problems, and doesn't overly like school that much.

She took the SAT and got a fairly low score (she took a prep class for it too). She then took the ACT and got a 23. This, coupled with her 2.5 GPA, got her turned down for a total of six Virginia state public universities. I was all set to send her to community college because I believe that's where she belongs. A well-meaning family friend who has some pull at an out-of-state university (which was only a few hours away) managed to get them to look at her file and accept her. That's where she is now. She loves it. However, she still struggles horribly with her classes. College is probably not where she belongs right now. It's very much a maturity issue. She's not naturally brilliant so, in order to make good grades and decent test scores she has to *want* to put in the work. She will probably realize that when she's about 23.

In the meantime, I have wracked my brain as to what a young, petite girl can get a skill in besides hair/cosmetology. My DH is an master electrician so we are very familiar with all the trades. VERY few women in those trades and the ones that are are not dainty flowers like my DD!

So, what's a girly-girl to do if she doesn't learn a skill in college. What sort of non-college career path can she follow?

She could be a general contractor. There is one woman I know of in our area that is a VERY successful general contractor and she is pretty petite.

One thing about cosmetology school is that if you do well there you can make a very good living, not at Cost Cutters or a place like that but at medium to high end salons. Heck, I have a friend that cuts hair 2 evenings/week and on Saturdays and make $30,000/year--which I know because she likes to brag about how much she and her DH make (which is ok but not as much as she thinks it is so I just keep my mouth shut ). My SIL has a shop in her basement and cuts hair by appointment only-so whenever and cleared $15,000 for working a few hours here and there. In a high end salon in MN you can expect to make $40-50K.

 

[golfgal]

Almost all of that is handled by the unions up here. Take a test (general test - not industry specific), get accepted, and begin the apprenticeship. The union handles training - some classroom, but most in the field/on the job. But the key point - none of that training is in college, and it certainly isn't a degree program...

Well here you start in the community colleges or vo-tech schools then take a test and apply for an apprenticeship. Most programs require a 2 year apprenticeship before you can get your masters certification. You then need to become part of the union or you won't get any work.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Well here you start in the community colleges or VI-tech schools then take a test and apply for an apprenticeship. Most programs require a 2 year apprenticeship before you can get your masters certification. You then need to become part of the union or you won't get any work.

Even so, this is a far cry from the need for a college education. There are too many people out there that think that kids without degrees are losers with no shot in life. I know too many very successful people who have never stepped foot on a college campus to agree with that. People with million dollar homes and six figure incomes. We have developed an elitist mentality, wherein our view of our fellow man is skewed by incorrect preconceptions...

 

[punkin]

And an awesome resume! My neighbor graduated in the top of her class at a private school, great grades and test scores, and didn't get into all of the theater departments she wanted (although could've easily got in with a traditional program). She's in an irish band (that plays in NYC), has had a lead in every production she's ever been in, has one many awards with theater companies in the area (Paper Mill, NJPAC here in NJ), and has been dancing since the age of 5. It's TOUGH to get into a good theater program!

This is true, but she does not seem to have grades going for her either. It was an idea.