I'm just amazed that parents don't care what their kids listen to...

[IDoDis]

I guess I just see things WAAAY differently -and at least y'all will be able to stick around and say "I told you so" in due time - i know you're excited!

I think having my kids just go wherever - with whomever is setting them up for failure. Maybe not ALL kids are gonna fall for the temptation - but why on earth allow them to be put in the situation at all?

I think of it as the same as if my dh decided to invite several lady friends back to the hotel room after his meeting or out to supper one on one with a lady he finds attractive- he's been on the road for a few weeks now & things aren't always the best at home -that's just setting himself up for failure - for going against his beliefs.- sure he "knows" the values, sure he knows I'd likely never find out....but if he could keep himself out of the tempting situation in the first place...

that's all I'm saying - we feel we should protect our children as long as they are under our care, as much as we can.

and yes, of course I know church going kids that aren't perfect angels

I think you are missing the point. The point is not that posters her think it's okay to let their kids go with whomever, when ever they want. The point to be made is to give kids some wings to fly with. Don't shelter them too much or they'll come in for a crash landing when they have to make their own decisions one day without having had opportunities to think things through themselves. If you've raised her right, then trust her to start making the right choices and she will live up to that trust. There comes a time when you cut the apron strings and start letting your daughter have some freedoms and let her know you trust her judgment.

 

[luvmyfam444]

You choose who your child is friends with? My children chose their friends starting in preschool. If I find out that there are major red-flag issues in the child's home (happened once), I might go about trying to end the friendship, or limiting visits to our home. Again, this only happened once (ds11 had a friend in kindergarten who didn't use seatbelts, or helmets for bike riding, and the kid was a bully to other kids besides ds). We are not raising children - we are raising adults. Dd13 has had friends who have treated her badly in the past. It was a real learning experience for her. Turns out one girl ended up getting involved in a bad crowd. My dd found another group of wonderful kids.

BTW, although we don't censor anything, my kids attend Mass every single Sunday. We don't do drugs, smoke, or have any fire arms in the house. There is no domestic violence here, and all the kids are straight A students, and involved in sports, music, theater, and dance.

No I don't choose who my child is friends with - we choose who my child spends her time with. She has several friends at school we know nothing about - other than their names & what they look like, what classes together, trivial stuff. Her friends she hangs out with are approved by us, there is not a checklist or anything.
I don't see it any different than approving of the boy my dd wants to date (when she's 25 ) -----wait for it - someone's gonna take that literally......

 

[allison443]

No I don't choose who my child is friends with - we choose who my child spends her time with. She has several friends at school we know nothing about - other than their names & what they look like, what classes together, trivial stuff. Her friends she hangs out with are approved by us, there is not a checklist or anything.
I don't see it any different than approving of the boy my dd wants to date (when she's 25 ) -----wait for it - someone's gonna take that literally......

Okay, but you chose to let her go to this "acceptable" friend's house and she ended up hearing and singing Lady Gaga...so do you see that your system is not foolproof like you seem to think it is?

 

[luvmyfam444]

I think you are missing the point. The point is not that posters her think it's okay to let their kids go with whomever, when ever they want. The point to be made is to give kids some wings to fly with. Don't shelter them too much or they'll come in for a crash landing when they have to make their own decisions one day without having had opportunities to think things through themselves. If you've raised her right, then trust her to start making the right choices and she will live up to that trust. There comes a time when you cut the apron strings and start letting your daughter have some freedoms and let her know you trust her judgment.

Nope - not missing that point at all thanks! She will have plenty of time to fly - just not at 12!

And I'm clearly getting the pint that says I'm nuts, a freak and creepy & my kid will be pregnant or on drugs cause I'm too strict 'cause I censor her music. I get that point loud & clear too.

 

[luvmyfam444]

Okay, but you chose to let her go to this "acceptable" friend's house and she ended up hearing and singing Lady Gaga...so do you see that your system is not foolproof like you seem to think it is?

I never said it was foolproof.

And yes she was at the acceptable friends house who did not own that music 20mins prior to me getting there. So I can't blame that mom for that. Her child opened the CD & she (or someone at the party) stuck it in.

At least that is what she is telling you. Perhaps she is just savy on knowing what you want to hear.

I cannot believe for one minute that all those middle school girls learned the Lady Gaga lyrics from a girl scout camp without ever hearing the music. Oh my goodness, that is not how middle school works. Clueless, right

I didn't saw that NONE of the girls knew the songs. (or maybe I did - I'll need to reread my post) It only takes one to sing something catchy to teach the others. I don't know that 1 of the girls didn't have their ipod & they all got to hear the music at camp. I have no idea. BUt yes I think they could know those songs just in that one night as well. I know part of Papparazzi from only hearing it once that night & poker face only from Kelly (Regis & Kelly) from singing P- P-Poker Face on her show - that's it - so YEP those particular songs are extremely easy choruses to learn just hearing them one time. I couldn't get up & sing the lyrics but I know enough to belt out the chorus with a bunch of other giggling girls with a microphone - from hearing them 1 time.
I even woke up the other morning singing it in my mind! LOL Those tunes are fun & so catchy!

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Nope - not missing that point at all thanks! She will have plenty of time to fly - just not at 12!

And I'm clearly getting the pint that says I'm nuts, a freak and creepy & my kid will be pregnant or on drugs cause I'm too strict 'cause I censor her music. I get that point loud & clear too.

I don't think you are a freak. I do think it creepy that you know other girl's menstruation particulars.

What I do think is that you are a bit naive.

Your daughter was singing the lyrics to Lady GaGa with all the other girls at that party. It is naive to believe that she was clueless and had only heard the lyrics at girl scouts and had never heard the music before.

It has been my experience, and only my experience, that children with very, very tight reins learn very quickly ways to keep them loose so that they can fit in. If it means telling their parents what they want to hear, then so be it.

You said you were going to control your daughter's friendships till she leaves for college. How will she be able to handle peer pressure, gain the strength to be able to say no and adhere to her convictions if she is not given the opportunity to give it a whirl, while she is safely in your care with you to pick her back up if she makes mistakes?

Giving her the freedom to use those values and morals while she is still under your wing is a far better gift than sheltering her till she is 18 and then throwing her out in the world and saying - go say "no" now. They have never had any experience nor guidance nor the ability to make mistakes to learn their strengths and weaknesses.

You wouldn't hand your daughter the keys to the car and tell her to go drive across town without practicing first.

It is the same thing in learning how to become a strong woman. They need practice, they need to be exposed to life, they need to make mistakes while lovingly supported, they need to become self-assured that saying "no" can and is an empowering thing.

 

[JoShan1719]

I don't believe in throwing her out to the wolves - "here, these are our values - have fun hanging out with Tracy in that liberal home where parties with drinking & sex is rampant but PLEASE PLEASE remember the values you were taught - even when you are tempted & are watching everyone else having "fun" all around you.

This was my mother's mantra exactly. I went to one party as a teenager. My curfew was 1 AM and she said when I got home if I wanted to go back for another couple hours we would discuss it. There were drugs and alocohol at the party-- which I didn't even touch because I chose not to. And when I got home at 12:50 I decided I didn't want to go back because the party was getting a bit crazy. My thinking was that my mother had trusted me and I didn't want to take advantage of that. I didn't go to anymore parties because of the things that were going on there, but I could have if I'd wanted to because my mother trusted me.

This can't always be the case, I know that. I had friends who did take advantage of their parents' trust. I just chose not to, and my mother knew that I would make good choices. My stepmother refused to believe my stepbrother would make any good decisions as a teenager, and she was right. He threw parties when she'd go out (he always got caught, because she knew when he would throw them), drank, smoke pot... but she assumed I would do those things as well because I was a teenager and she was wrong. I think in the end you are the parent and the decision is yours. I would just hope that the parents who "shield" the kids do so because they are certain about what choices their children would make, and not just because they refuse to put any trust in them.

 

[luvmyfam444]

It has been my experience, and only my experience, that children with very, very tight reins learn very quickly ways to keep them loose so that they can fit in. If it means telling their parents what they want to hear, then so be it.

You said you were going to control your daughter's friendships till she leaves for college. How will she be able to handle peer pressure, gain the strength to be able to say no and adhere to her convictions if she is not given the opportunity to give it a whirl, while she is safely in your care with you to pick her back up if she makes mistakes?

Giving her the freedom to use those values and morals while she is still under your wing is a far better gift than sheltering her till she is 18 and then throwing her out in the world and saying - go say "no" now. They have never had any experience nor guidance nor the ability to make mistakes to learn their strengths and weaknesses.

You wouldn't hand your daughter the keys to the car and tell her to go drive across town without practicing first.

It is the same thing in learning how to become a strong woman. They need practice, they need to be exposed to life, they need to make mistakes while lovingly supported, they need to become self-assured that saying "no" can and is an empowering thing.

Well said!

 

[allison443]

Nope not if they don't ride the bus & their friends moms are like me - then they aren't exposed at someone elses house since they don't have it in the house either.

Sounds like you were saying your dd wouldn't be exposed since they only go to the homes where the moms are "like you". All I'm saying, is that obviously didn't work here.

 

[luvmyfam444]

I would just hope that the parents who "shield" the kids do so because they are certain about what choices their children would make, and not just because they refuse to put any trust in them.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I do not think you are a "freak" or "creepy." I commend you for sticking with the thread and comming back to answer questions and further clarify--and I appreciated the nicer tone you have used in doing so in the last day.
What I do think is that you are very invovled in your DDs life. I think you are so involved becuase you love her so much and want the best for her. I think you have managed to find a group of fellow moms who are equally involved. I think you and these moms are so close to "protecting" your DDs in the here and now that you are not seeing how much harm your actions may well cause in the long term. You are all so wrapped up in your DDs and controlling every details of their lives that you do not see that much of what you do (such as dicussing when everyone got their periods) is not normal nor healthy. I guess i am saying it could be valuable for you and your DD if you step back and try to look at things from a wider perspective. By 12 the process of becomming an independent adult should have started--becuase it is a long slow process when done well. Also, the consequences to poor decisions at 12 tend to be much less costly than they tend to be at 18 or 25 etc. I feel it is much better to let them learn from mistakes when the price is small rather than when the price is large. I also tend to believe that children need to feel that you trust them (assuming they have not given you a real reason not to)--whereas it seems you treat both your DD and your DH as if you do not trust them.

Does your DH really travel a lot, or was that just an example not pulled from reality at all? If he does, I wonder if you get overly wrapped up in your DD's life becuase you are missing out on a good connection with him from day to day. i only say that because i have to relaly watch myself and make sure I do not become overly involved in my kids' day to day stuff for that reason. It is very easy to do and I have to conciously pay attention to not putting that pressure onto them.

 

[jamimb]

I was a a somewhat sheltered child and I turned out great. I am 33 yrs old and I have never been drunk in my whole life, I have never tried drugs, I have never had premarital sex, and you won't hear curse words come out of my mouth. I am a fine upstanding person who has been married for 15 years, successfully holds down a job and volunteers in her community. Apparently I just narrowly escaped the part where every child who is taught morals and decency and not let run wild became a drug addict ***** who has spent time in prison.

 

[golfgal]

Nope - not missing that point at all thanks! She will have plenty of time to fly - just not at 12!

And I'm clearly getting the pint that says I'm nuts, a freak and creepy & my kid will be pregnant or on drugs cause I'm too strict 'cause I censor her music. I get that point loud & clear too.

Um, at 12 she only has 5 years until college, when exactly is she going to learn to fly? It doesn't magically happen at age 18 that they all of the sudden know how to make good decisions. It takes years of practice starting with little things like picking out an outfit at age 2 all the way up to picking friends in middle school.

 

[jamimb]

Um, at 12 she only has 5 years until college, when exactly is she going to learn to fly? It doesn't magically happen at age 18 that they all of the sudden know how to make good decisions. It takes years of practice starting with little things like picking out an outfit at age 2 all the way up to picking friends in middle school.

She's absolutely right. Most 12 yr olds do not have the maturity to make good decisions on their own . Not all decisions but a lot!!!!

 

[NHdisneylover]

She's absolutely right. Most 12 yr olds do not have the maturity to make good decisions on their own . Not all decisions but a lot!!!!

I think the vast majority of 12 year olds do have the maturity to choose their own friends and handle hearing some music at a friend's house that they are not allowed to listen to at home without becomming immoral beings or getting into a lot of trouble. In fact most do. The few who show that they choose friends who are into trouble AND who then follow those friends into trouble should THEN be more regulated (and really guided into how to do a better job choosing friends and holding their own when friends are leading them into trouble--not jsut prohibited from ever choosing friedns again which teaches them nothing). I would argue that very few people end up with the maturity to handle serious adult decisions if they are not allowed to build up to it by making smaller decions (and mistakes) as younger kids. yes, some peopel are totalyl sheltered their whole lives and grow up without having any ill effects or difficult adjustments when moving out on their own. Likewise, some people turn out to be huge trouble makers no matter how hard their parents try or what their parents do. However, the vast majority of people fall somewhere in the middle and are swayed by the parenting they receive nad do do better building the skills to be an adult slowly and steadily over time.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I was a a somewhat sheltered child and I turned out great. I am 33 yrs old and I have never been drunk in my whole life, I have never tried drugs, I have never had premarital sex, and you won't hear curse words come out of my mouth. I am a fine upstanding person who has been married for 15 years, successfully holds down a job and volunteers in her community. Apparently I just narrowly escaped the part where every child who is taught morals and decency and not let run wild became a drug addict ***** who has spent time in prison.

That's almost exactly what I was going to say. I certainly was in situations in college where I had to make my own choices, but by then I was mature enough and had a strong enough foundation to make the right ones. I didn't rebel or lack decision-making ability merely because my parents restricted the movies and shows I watched at 12 years old. On the other hand, the girls I knew who weren't being parented were the ones who got pregnant in h.s.
You can't shelter your children completely if they're going to school or otherwise spending any time away from you. But, you can set limits on what they watch and listen to when they are under your control and teach them what is right and wrong. It's frightening that some parents don't think it's their job to teach their children values and morals. That's the hardest and most important job of a parent, especially today when society wants us to believe consumption, desire, and personal choice are most important and there is no right and wrong.
I would be very upset with a parent who allowed her child to give a questionable cd to another child without checking with the child's parents. And I see nothing wrong with warning the parents and discretely throwing away the cd.

 

[NHdisneylover]

That's almost exactly what I was going to say. I certainly was in situations in college where I had to make my own choices, but by then I was mature enough and had a strong enough foundation to make the right ones. I didn't rebel or lack decision-making ability merely because my parents restricted the movies and shows I watched at 12 years old. On the other hand, the girls I knew who weren't being parented were the ones who got pregnant in h.s.
You can't shelter your children completely if they're going to school or otherwise spending any time away from you. But, you can set limits on what they watch and listen to when they are under your control and teach them what is right and wrong. It's frightening that some parents don't think it's their job to teach their children values and morals. That's the hardest and most important job of a parent, especially today when society wants us to believe consumption, desire, and personal choice are most important and there is no right and wrong.
I would be very upset with a parent who allowed her child to give a questionable cd to another child without checking with the child's parents. And I see nothing wrong with warning the parents and discretely throwing away the cd.

Oh but I do think it is extremly important to teach morals and values (and I am betting many of the other posters who think the OP is over the top on censoring and controlling do as well--probably all of them). I just think that if I have done a good enough job on that front to I do not need to worry that everything I have taught them will fly out the window if my children are exposed to something else. I can understand that to others PART of teaching the kids is sheltering them--but I think it is awfully persumptious to say parents who make a different choice do not care.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

That's almost exactly what I was going to say. I certainly was in situations in college where I had to make my own choices, but by then I was mature enough and had a strong enough foundation to make the right ones. I didn't rebel or lack decision-making ability merely because my parents restricted the movies and shows I watched at 12 years old. On the other hand, the girls I knew who weren't being parented were the ones who got pregnant in h.s.
You can't shelter your children completely if they're going to school or otherwise spending any time away from you. But, you can set limits on what they watch and listen to when they are under your control and teach them what is right and wrong. It's frightening that some parents don't think it's their job to teach their children values and morals. That's the hardest and most important job of a parent, especially today when society wants us to believe consumption, desire, and personal choice are most important and there is no right and wrong.
I would be very upset with a parent who allowed her child to give a questionable cd to another child without checking with the child's parents. And I see nothing wrong with warning the parents and discretely throwing away the cd.

I don't think there is a single parent on this thread who doesn't believe that it is their job to teach values and morals. That is just a blatant fabrication.

The difference here is the amount of freedom each parent gives their child to test those values and morals. Some parents believe in a bit more freedom to test their wings and their values, and some parents just prefer to not expose their children to some things. It is a difference in freedoms and trust, not whether or not parents do not believe in morals and values.

Just because I don't freak out when my 13 year old son listens to Birthday Sex does not mean that we have not discussed pre-marital sex, respect for others, and all the core values that I think all of us here embrace. I can guarantee you I find it very, very important to teach values. And so far I have succeeded. My kids are strong, self assured in their values and do not succumb to peer pressure.

And I do think that it is way out of line to question and try to change somebody else's style of parenting in their own home. And that includes printing out lyrics to get the mom to turn off the cd. Your house, your rules. Their house, their rules.

 

[R and C's momma]

I only read the first page of replies -- so I'm not entirely sure if I'm (we're, if you include DH!) against the norm, but WE just bought the Lady Gaga CD because we as a family LOVE her music. Our DD is 11 (going on 17) and our DS is 5. DD knows a great deal about what most lyrics mean as we are a VERY open household. DS has not one clue, but I think it's pretty darn funny to hear his little voice belt out "Ra ra a-a-a, Ram a- rum-ma-ma ... ". And honestly, when they play her on our very liberal mainstream station here (not referring to the top-40 one) it's a little more challenging to turn away from. Besides, she is catchy and has undeniable talent!

That being said, would I purchase that CD for a party gift for ANYONE of ANY age? Heck no, not unless the person over 18 or parent throwing a child's (11-17) party specifically asked for it.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I don't think there is a single parent on this thread who doesn't believe that it is their job to teach values and morals. That is just a blatant fabrication.

The difference here is the amount of freedom each parent gives their child to test those values and morals. Some parents believe in a bit more freedom to test their wings and their values, and some parents just prefer to not expose their children to some things. It is a difference in freedoms and trust, not whether or not parents do not believe in morals and values.

Just because I don't freak out when my 13 year old son listens to Birthday Sex does not mean that we have not discussed pre-marital sex, respect for others, and all the core values that I think all of us here embrace. I can guarantee you I find it very, very important to teach values. And so far I have succeeded. My kids are strong, self assured in their values and do not succumb to peer pressure.

And I do think that it is way out of line to question and try to change somebody else's style of parenting in their own home. And that includes printing out lyrics to get the mom to turn off the cd. Your house, your rules. Their house, their rules.

I should have been more clear that it's frightening that I have heard -- in other places -- many parents claim they cannot impose their morals and values on their children. I do care what other parents allow because their kids teach my kids words and ideas when I'm not there (and some day my kids have to live as adults in the world with people raised w/o strong morals). I get why someone would choose her kids' friends, though I haven't done that.
I don't think anyone specifically stated here that they don't believe in teaching any values; however, I think you're sending mixed messages when you play music/movies/tv shows in your kids' presence that contradict the values you claim to have or let them watch/listen to whatever they want. Kids learn more from what we do than what we say. They also, unfortunately, learn what is "normal" from what they hear and see both in real life and in music/shows/movies. I think a lot of parents are afraid to not be "cool." It's okay to say something is not appropriate. And, for the parent who mentioned this, I think it's dangerous to allow a child or teen to have completely unsupervised internet access.

I don't mean to sound like I think I have all the answers. My kids are just reaching the age where I have to figure all this out.

This brings back memories of being forbidden from watching movies like For Keeps, which I really wanted to see. I was embarrassed when my mom questioned the video store owner about the content of various movies.