I'm Done!!! Too Many Changes We Don't Like

[Schmeck]

Uhhhhhhh....the title of this section is Theme Park Attractions and Strategies. I don't see Trip Planning in the title. .

The Theme park Attractions and Strategies forum is a subforum under the heading "Disney Trip Planning". Just look at the box at the top left side of this screen, where the thread name is listed.

 

[Colleen27]

I will withhold judgement until after my January trip.

I'm doing the same. I'm not impressed with the FP+/MB information that's come out so far and I hate the idea of vacation becoming something that has to be scheduled down to ride times. I also hate the fact that the new CC policy means no more on-the-fly ADRs; there are a lot of days where I don't book lunch but end up jumping on the app to make a TS ADR rather than grabbing counter service, but the app can't even search for availability at restaurants with a CC requirement much less book them. So the change effects the way I travel even without any need to cancel a planned ADR.

But I am reserving final judgement until I've experienced it all for myself. I'm currently booked for Dec & Jan, and considering a "one last trip" for Feb/Mar before my AP expires as well. The Dec trip is on for sure. Jan and beyond is up in the air depending on what sort of experience we have in Dec.

 

[River Country]

Really???? this is good to know. I have a split stay coming in December. I just found out that i am receiving 2 sets of MB's. I also have a PAP. ever come across this?

 

[PeterPanic]

Actually, that's not quote correct. Here is the definition on Disney's ADR:
Advance Reservations is a system Walt Disney World uses to manage their restaurant seating flow. In essence, unlike a true reservation where a table is saved for your party at a particular time, the advance reservation guarantees your party the next available table.

Ergo, you don't show up, your table goes to the next group inline. Kind of like a FP at a ride, they don't save a seat for you in case you show up. If you do, you're next in line, if not, then the person behind you fills the seat. It's an excellent system really - they do not HOLD a table for you so they have no empty tables if you don't show up. Requiring a credit card to hold the table does likely make for less "double dipping ADRs" but Disney wasn't loosing any money if you didn't show up. Now, they make money !!

On the surface, your argument seems correct, however, even though the first part is fairly correct, in that the next group goes in, there's more to it then that. If any given restaurant books 100 ADR for the evening and 10 of them don't show then it cost them money. Probably way more money then that $10.00 covers. For example, just the quantity of diners alone. If you have allowed space, time and food to accommodate and average of 4 people per group and 10 groups don't show up, it is very costly. If they think that they have reached capacity (i.e. 100) then they will be turning away people at the door telling them that it is by ADR only. They cannot recoup that money and anyone who has every had a meal at Disney knows that $10.00 doesn't even cover the cost of your drink, much less your meal. If they plan for 100 and only 90 show up, not all the food that was planned for the evening will survive to the next day, therefore thrown out edibles.

Considering the abuse that thoughtless people have inflicted on the system, it's a wonder that they didn't put a $50.00 charge on it. I think I would have.

 

[Colleen27]

See ya. One less person in the crowd I'll have to deal with.

If THESE are the reasons that you won't visit Disney World, then I think your have your vacationing priorities wrong to being with.

I'm sorry, when did we establish one proper set of vacation priorities? If I'm spending my money, I would think I'd be the one to set my vacationing priorities.

I agree! This is TOTALLY understandable why they did this. I thought just as you did. The person(s) that complains are the ones who make multiple reservations at a park and see where they are closest to at that time and go to it. The only thing the might could have done was to have it where the system could red flag if someone had a double reservation within and hour or two of another but then people would make up names so that wouldn't work. Unless they ID'ed you, but if you have a big party just use everyone in your parties name. So no...that doesn't work.

Except that isn't true and is merely a way of shutting down reasonable conversation about the change. A lot of the complaints are coming from people who book only ADRs they plan to make, but have had illness, bad weather, or just plain overdoing it in the parks prompt a last minute cancellation at some point.

Also, the fee isn't the only objectionable element of this particular change - they're essentially destroying the dining reservations functionality of their own app with this change, because the app doesn't support searching for or booking ADRs at restaurants that require a CC hold. The cancellation fee might effect me once in a blue moon - I can think of 2 or 3 times in the past that it would have applied, out of over a hundred sit-down meals at WDW - but I was on my app booking a last-minute meal probably a half-dozen times between my last two trips. But Disney is rolling out this policy without updating their technology to fully support it, so I won't be able to do that in December.

Personally, I think the argument that "we" forced Disney to do cc for all ADRs is really silly. Drink the koolaid, much?

For every no show at Chef Mickeys is a line of people 2-3 times as long looking for a walk-up reservation. There was no issue with not filling seats. Disney just realized they can make $40 or $50 for every no show PLUS not miss a beat on dining revenue as they fill your spot with a walk-up table.

Exactly. An ADR isn't a reservation, and a last minute cancellation or even a no-show doesn't mean a table sits empty. ADRs are just FPs for dining; you get a reserved place in line when you check in. Sure, they hold the ability to do so for a period of time if you're a little late - much like the return window on a fastpass - but they're not idling a table waiting on you. They're just moving along to the next person on the list, and the next, and the next. And now the fee applies to restaurants that sit half-empty much of the time as well, which can only make volume less predictable for those establishments because why would you make an ADR and risk a cancellation fee for Olivia's or Kouzzina when you know you can get in as a walk-up?

And it never occurred to you to pick it up?

I can sort of understand the band-aid, but a plastic bag over the hand and you could have picked it up...

Yes, Disney should be more on top of the litter, but if everyone picked up just one piece of easy to chuck litter (like a popcorn box or a water bottle - not talking dirty diapers or anything like that) the park would be improved

I'm sorry, but I don't spend the kind of money we spend to go to WDW to pick up litter like I'm in my own front yard. A clean, pleasant setting is a big part of the product that WDW markets and it isn't unreasonable to expect they'll live up to the expectations they create.

I'm not a person who is adverse to change. If you feel like digging, you'll find that I was very positive about next gen and the potential in RFID. What I am is disappointed. Disney is taking a powerful new technology, rolling it out before it is show-ready, and applying it in ways that detract from rather than enhance the guest experience.

 

[Jennasis]

I'm not witholding judgment....I think the FP+ system is nonsense. HOWEVER, we still have our trip planned for next September. I'm waiting until early 2014 to see when the Death Star is fully operational before I have a complete meltdown...after which I will suck it up and surf the boards as usual until I learn how to make the most of the new system.

 

[PeterPanic]

Exactly. An ADR isn't a reservation, and a last minute cancellation or even a no-show doesn't mean a table sits empty. ADRs are just FPs for dining; you get a reserved place in line when you check in. Sure, they hold the ability to do so for a period of time if you're a little late - much like the return window on a fastpass - but they're not idling a table waiting on you. They're just moving along to the next person on the list, and the next, and the next. And now the fee applies to restaurants that sit half-empty much of the time as well, which can only make volume less predictable for those establishments because why would you make an ADR and risk a cancellation fee for Olivia's or Kouzzina when you know you can get in as a walk-up?

I guess you have been lucky. I have tried to walk up to many ADR spots only to be told that if I didn't have an ADR, they couldn't help me. No lines waiting, not even negotiable. I was solo at the time. One person that didn't take up that much room.

I didn't quote your entire post, but, speaking about the multiple ADR's, they a major problem. They were one of the highlighted methods to be used in planning your schedule. Not by Disney, but by everyone that did it and then recommended it to others. It was hardly a small number of people.

 

[CanadaJulie]

It is not drinking the koolaid. It is so easy now to get ADRs that were almost impossible to get before. People were booking 3, 4, 5 ADRs all over the place because they didn't know what they would feel like eating that far in advance. !

That's is actually hilarious because the new policy has not come into effect yet. It was supposed to start TOMORROW (but has since been delayed). If you are actually seeing an increase in availability of ADRs that were previously hard to get, it is NOT because of the credit card hold - because they aren't doing that yet !!


Koolaid anyone ?

 

[mom2rtk]

That's is actually hilarious because the new policy has not come into effect yet. It was supposed to start TOMORROW (but has since been delayed). If you are actually seeing an increase in availability of ADRs that were previously hard to get, it is NOT because of the credit card hold - because they aren't doing that yet !!


Koolaid anyone ?

You might want to hold on before busting a gut there.

ADR CC guarantees have been in effect for some time now, well over a year. Up until now it was for signature locations (the most desirable spots). I believe the change now is to just bring the other locations online with that policy.

 

[Colleen27]

I guess you have been lucky. I have tried to walk up to many ADR spots only to be told that if I didn't have an ADR, they couldn't help me. No lines waiting, not even negotiable. I was solo at the time. One person that didn't take up that much room.

I didn't quote your entire post, but, speaking about the multiple ADR's, they a major problem. They were one of the highlighted methods to be used in planning your schedule. Not by Disney, but by everyone that did it and then recommended it to others. It was hardly a small number of people.

It seems that at least some restaurants have a blanket policy against walk-ups, and I've run into that too. I figured out, though, that when the restaurant looks less than full but says they aren't taking walk-ups the trick is to get on your phone and make a last-minute ADR. I've done that a couple times - turned away at the podium but able to make an ADR at that same restaurant for just 20 or 30min later. I'm not sure if it is a space/traffic flow issue that they don't want people sitting around waiting for walk-ups or what but I've encountered a few occasions where there were plenty of "now" ADRs available at a restaurant that was turning people away at the podium.

I know it was no small number of people booking multiple overlapping ADRs to avoid having to commit to any one plan. I even know travel agents who advised it as the smart way to tour. But I don't think this policy solves that problem - you can still book many ADRs, and just have to decide the night before what sounds good for the coming day. Meanwhile, guest satisfaction declines because people who made ADRs in good faith lose flexibility to cancel if the weather turns bad or someone in their party isn't feeling well.

 

[WDSearcher]

My wife is a Disney fanatic. She grew up as a season pass holder in SoCal and (at great expense) has taken the kids for a magical trip in Feb 2009. I took her and the DMIL (at great expense) on a truly magical trip in April 2013. We had so much fun, we got APs and a TIW!

Now we were planning on going again in Feb 2014 before the passes and TIW expired. Between the expense, the hassle with FP (we got them as much as we could and when we didn't use them, we gave them away - you should have seen the families that got our TSMM FP!!!) and the crowd reports, we are rethinking our trip. None of the kids or myself want to go if we have to hassle getting on rides, eat meals, etc ( and we are RD, ADR folks.)

The only person still interested is my wife and that is because she drank the kool-aid. But even she does not see the value anymore of going solo. We are looking at adventure alternatives seeing as we are pretty adventurous. It turns out for the same $$ as a WDW vacay, we can have some pretty incredible experiences in exotic places.

Now it is a matter of me convincing my wife to go alternative or her convincing the family to go Disney. Who will prevail???????????

There's a big difference between "drinking the koolaid" and "waiting to see if something actually affects you before you decide it stinks".

 

[CanadaJulie]

You might want to hold on before busting a gut there.

ADR CC guarantees have been in effect for some time now, well over a year. Up until now it was for signature locations (the most desirable spots). I believe the change now is to just bring the other locations online with that policy.

Yes a little over a dozen restaurants require a CC guarantee (most of which are not in any of the parks). Out of the HUNDREDS of options available all over WDW, making a dozen or so require a CC deposit would not make a significant difference to the PP who claims "It is so easy now to get ADRs that were almost impossible to get before"

 

[WDSearcher]

It might not be that simple:

Number three is particularly interesting. I've always heard that most people say nothing whether they're happy or unhappy. How much of this applies to a themepark is a good question IMO.

Another thing to factor in is, of those 26 people who never say anything, how many of them are basing their unhappiness on something they've actually experienced vs. something that they think they probably might not like because a few other people told them that they didn't like it. And how does a company fix something if the bulk of the complaints are coming from people who haven't tried it yet?

That's kind of my conundrum here. Of the people who are vehemently protesting against all things FP+, the majority of them have yet to try it. Of the people who have actually tried it, there seem to be a lot of positive reports. There are negative experiences too, of course, but no more or less than anything else on the DIS -- restaurants, merchandise, ride closures, crowds, etc.

Dozens of people are complaining about something they've yet to experience and basing those complaints on the complaints of other people who they have never met, whose touring / vacationing styles may or may not be similar and have also not experienced it. How does a company "fix" that? How do you fix something that "might" happen?

Not to mention that, for some, no matter what Disney says or does, it won't be enough. They've made their minds up, and Disney will never make it right. Only if Disney goes back to the person's comfort zone will it (maybe) calm them down. And even then, they'll have a bit of a chip on their shoulder about what Disney "almost" did to them back in 2013. And then in a year or two when Universal or SeaWorld or Six Flags goes to some sort of FP+ clone program, that person will come back and sneer at Disney for being "behind the curve" technologically because they didn't think of it first.

 

[larryz]

On the surface, your argument seems correct, however, even though the first part is fairly correct, in that the next group goes in, there's more to it then that. If any given restaurant books 100 ADR for the evening and 10 of them don't show then it cost them money. Probably way more money then that $10.00 covers. For example, just the quantity of diners alone. If you have allowed space, time and food to accommodate and average of 4 people per group and 10 groups don't show up, it is very costly. If they think that they have reached capacity (i.e. 100) then they will be turning away people at the door telling them that it is by ADR only. They cannot recoup that money and anyone who has every had a meal at Disney knows that $10.00 doesn't even cover the cost of your drink, much less your meal. If they plan for 100 and only 90 show up, not all the food that was planned for the evening will survive to the next day, therefore thrown out edibles.

Considering the abuse that thoughtless people have inflicted on the system, it's a wonder that they didn't put a $50.00 charge on it. I think I would have.

Actually, in deep analysis, this comment is still correct. It's not a table reservation, they don't buy food based on ADRs booked, food bought for a restaurant doesn't get thrown out at the end of the day, and $10.00 per person on a reservation MORE than pays for just your drink, which (if you believe the Coca-cola conspiracies, doesn't cost them anything but the ice and dishwashing detergent) will be purchased by the next person in line anyway.

The $10 per person charge was simply and purely put in place to stop the practice of making multiple ADRs for the same time slot, as this was seriously affecting other guests' ability to make ADRs.

 

[larryz]

There's a big difference between "drinking the koolaid" and "waiting to see if something actually affects you before you decide it stinks".

Also known as "stinking the kool-aid."

 

[mom2rtk]

Yes a little over a dozen restaurants require a CC guarantee (most of which are not in any of the parks). Out of the HUNDREDS of options available all over WDW, making a dozen or so require a CC deposit would not make a significant difference to the PP who claims "It is so easy now to get ADRs that were almost impossible to get before"

Yes....... only the restaurants in the greatest demand.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

It seems that at least some restaurants have a blanket policy against walk-ups, and I've run into that too. I figured out, though, that when the restaurant looks less than full but says they aren't taking walk-ups the trick is to get on your phone and make a last-minute ADR. I've done that a couple times - turned away at the podium but able to make an ADR at that same restaurant for just 20 or 30min later. I'm not sure if it is a space/traffic flow issue that they don't want people sitting around waiting for walk-ups or what but I've encountered a few occasions where there were plenty of "now" ADRs available at a restaurant that was turning people away at the podium.

Way to improvise

As for us, we probably averaged 1 FP per day on our last trip, and 1 ADR for the entire trip. And we like rope drop, so I'm hopeful the new system will still work for us, even off-site.

 

[maxiesmom]

Yes....... only the restaurants in the greatest demand.

Exactly. And apparently that policy was successful as they are now rolling it out to all of the restaurants. I think maybe someone needs to do a bit more research before mocking other posters about "drinking the koolaid".

I want to add to that I have a trip coming up in a little over a month, so I am waiting to see how it all unfolds when I actually try and use all of the new goodies like FP+. Believe me, if they suck I will post about it when I get back. But I will also post if everything goes well.

 

[3Gsandme]

I'm going to start by saying that I absolutely believe you should vote with your money. It's the most effective way to voice your opinion. Maybe your in park money won't matter to Disney, but if a hundred, thousand or ten thousand people who feel like you, Disney may start to take notice. If you're unhappy with a a product or company, you're right to vote with your money.

But, I think it's currently impossible to tell wether or not you're going to have a successful vacation under the new systems and saying you're never going back without trying or saying "I'm going once and that's it!" makes you sound silly and uninformed. If you get there and have a horrible time, you should complain and decide if it's worth ever returning, but how do you know you won't like something if you've never tried? That makes no sense. It seems beyond childish to stomp your feet and make never statements about something you've never experienced.

 

[larryz]

I'm waiting until early 2014 to see when the Death Star is fully operational before I have a complete meltdown...

Yes! I feel your anger -- anger leads to hate and that leads to...

MAGICBANDS!!!