Illegal immigration: What is the answer?

[aristocatz]

Disclaimer: I debated whether to post this thread, due to the politics ban on this board, but I view this topic as a world issue so as long as everyone behaves and refrains from bashing any specific political group, I think we might be ok....

Anyways, I used to be very anti-illegal immigration. Take care of our own before we can take care of others. I used to feel very angry when I would hear my DF tell me about all of the illegal aliens working in the kitchen of the restaurant he worked in-with fake social security numbers and such. I admit that back then, I also did not know much about the countries these people came from...

Now I work in an urban school district with children with special needs. The school district I work in has a very large latino population. I have become friendly with a teacher who's family is from Cuba. She tells me lots of stories about the struggles of her brother and other family members who still live there and it just makes me sick to my stomach-her nephew has autism and is currently home-schooled by his mother because there are no schools who will allow him to go there. Health care for citizens there is horrible (I had thought the exact opposite after seeing that Michael Moore movie Sicko but apparently health services are great if you are NOT Cuban, but if you are Cuban forget it). Her family is extremely poor & they live in really bad living conditions. They have been trying to move to the States for years but the country will not let them go. Apparently the last time her brother applied for a green card, the country got angry at him for wanting to leave and punished him by taking away his college degree so now he is starting from scratch.....

Again, I admit that I don't know much & I'm probably thinking in a very naive manner here, but it just breaks my heart.

I'm starting to not feel so angry when I hear about people sneaking into our country to try and have a better and safer life for themselves and their children. & I think, I probably would do the same if I lived in a country with no freedom or adaquete living conditions for my family. I feel grateful to have been born in this country where, even in our lowest conditions, we still have freedom and some opportunity. & it is through no fault of my own that I live here.

What is the answer to this??

I mean obviously there are downfalls to letting everyone in-we need jobs too....but it just doesn't seem right to me that I can live without fear, not because I deserve it, but because I happen to have been born in this country....other people don't have the chance to be so lucky

I appreciate an adult, intelligent, and well behaved discussion. Please no direct insults to political parties or specific poster's opinions.

Thank you!

 

[laurie31]

I think the answer is serious immigration reform. I know we can't let *everyone* in, but this country was built on immigrants; our diversity is our strength. It shouldn't be impossible for people who WANT to work to come here and work. If they could come in legally, then they would pay taxes and work legally. In other words, they could compete for jobs on an even footing. Now, some places will hire "undocumented" persons because they can be paid under the table, for much less than an American citizen, or an immigrant who is here legally with a green card (a tax payer, in other words).

Through my job, I come in contact with many undocumented persons, illegal immigrants, whatever you want to call them, and as the OP said, they are just people, just like us. Most of them are VERY hard workers who love their families and are trying to make a better life for themselves and their loved ones. That's what America is all about, after all.



I wonder what it would be like if everyone, when they reached 18 or 21, had to go through the citizenship classes that those wishing to become US citizens have to take. If we all CHOSE our citizenship, rather than having it as a birthright. Would we treasure it more?

 

[FireDancer]

The same way you go after drugs, you address the demand instead of the supply. Go after the businesses that hire illegal aliens and make the punishment bad enough that there is no longer a financial incentive to hire illegal aliens. Where ever there is a demand for something there will be someone willing to provide the supply to fill that demand. It is the way it is with everything.

I am pro immigration, everyone in my family came here from somewhere else. I am also active in a young professionals society that has a lot of foreign born members. They all came here from somewhere else. All of them did so through what were the legal channels at the time. Anyone who wants to come here should do so through those same, current legal channels. If that means that from time to time people get turned away that is ok, it doesn't have to be a wide opened door. Some of my friends were rejected multiple times before being granted citizenship. There is nothing wrong with waiting your turn if there is no more room at the inn.

 

[Sparx]

I think the process to become a legal citizen is too hard and too expensive. Its rare that someone can come here with the clothes on their back, as an adult and become a citizen. Its a mess of red tape and circular logic. The test should be free (or very affordable), and widely available, and much of the information on those tests is unnecessary and preventing many well functioning members of society to actually BECOME a legal member of our society.

I am completely pro immigration, and I welcome anyone with open arms who wants to come and become a citizen of my country, but our government needs to make it more achievable for the people who are actually out there trying.

 

[chisnpeke]

I appreciate that these people come here to work. I admire them for it. They do it to better their family.

However, they need to be documented. I can't understand why they don't get documented, except for the obvious reasons. I know it is hard to become a citizen and understand the language, but you do what you have to do be a citizen of this country.

Like the OP, I am beyond thankful and so blessed to live in this country. We have so much that is taken for granted. The opportunities for the poorest in this country are better than for so many poor in other countries. And you know, a lot of the people in this country do take for granted the programs and services given to them. If someone who has to have food stamps lived in any other country that was third world of the world, they would be going hungry. We take care of those not able to take care of themselves properly...where else is that happening? That is why this country is great and that is why people strive to live here.

I encourage legal immigration. It is what makes this country great. This is a country of immigrants and I am thankful that my ancestors decided to come and make a better life. I hope the immigrants of today and their children will feel the same. But, living here and working here are privileges, not rights and not paying taxes and using our services without paying into them is not the way to do it.

 

[chisnpeke]

I think the process to become a legal citizen is too hard and too expensive. Its rare that someone can come here with the clothes on their back, as an adult and become a citizen. Its a mess of red tape and circular logic. The test should be free (or very affordable), and widely available, and much of the information on those tests is unnecessary and preventing many well functioning members of society to actually BECOME a legal member of our society.

I am completely pro immigration, and I welcome anyone with open arms who wants to come and become a citizen of my country, but our government needs to make it more achievable for the people who are actually out there trying.

I did take a citizenship test once online. It was a fairly easy test...things you learn in a government/civics class. How much does the test cost to take? I was not aware that it was expensive. But I also hadn't thought much about the cost to the people who have so little to begin with.


I do think that the government should make it easier for these people who speak other languages, such as spanish, to take the test. Is the test offered in other languages? I also think that immigrants need to make more of an effort to learn english. It is the language spoken here and though there is no official language, english is it. It shouldn't be to the point of having to add a subtitle in spanish on signs in the stores and everything. But I know it is very, very hard to learn a new language so expecting it may be unrealistic it is just something that I think needs to be worked on for a lifetime if need be as it will benefit us as well as the immigrant.

 

[EMom]

Illegal immigration has wreaked havoc on Texas. It is crippling us. It's easy to have a generous attitude when it has little effect on your life, but for those of us in border states who have witnessed the negative effects of 25+ years of uncontrolled illegal immigration, we're tired of dealing with the reality of a spineless federal government.

The people who cross illegally are not (with rare exceptions) evil or horrible people. On an individual basis, they are not objectionable. But the reality is, the US simply cannot afford to take on millions of IIs and their offspring. It would be great if we had an endless supply of money and could take on every needy person in the world, but we can't. That is a fantasy. If we don't stop this, soon we will be a third world country.

The solution is for the people in other countries (Mexico affects Texas the most so for me, it springs to mind) is to make changes in their own countries so those countries are places one would want to remain in. I would be thrilled if we completely shut down the US/Mexico border. The narco-terrorism is enough to warrant that..... No longer are the only Mexicans coming here those who "just want to make a living." In my small neighborhood, we have MANY wealthy Mexicans who have fled out of sheer fear. Kidnappings are real threat. Ask my neighbor who only escaped being kidnapped due to being on vacation....They mistakenly got an employee instead. The poor are leaving, the wealthy are leaving....And bringing many of the same problems here with them.

I truly do not think things will get better in Mexico without a revolution or something darn close to it. Closing the border might force that to happen sooner rather than later. So long as it's open, the US is their escape hatch and a way to take the pressure off. Their government is seemingly helpless against the cartels and is barely hanging on. I just think it's a lost cause and something has to give....something BIG. Plenty of countries have been forced to the point of revolution and come out stronger for it, the US included. Mexico simply MUST get better....Its citizens deserve more and should not have to flee the country to have a decent life. But I do not believe the country will ever get better until the issue is forced.

Instead of asking what we can do to help illegal immigrants, we should be asking why countries like Mexico aren't doing more to make people want to stay put....Why aren't we holding them accountable for the conditions that make people feel they have to run to survive?

So close the border to the best of our ability, make the businesses who hire illegal aliens sorry that they ever did, and when we deport them, my dream would be to drop them by parachute on to the Mexican version of The White House and not 3 feet over the border. Mexico treats anyone entering their country illegally in an extraordinarily harsh manner, yet expects us to open them with open arms. Don't think so.

I realize people enter illegally from other countries, but as I said, for Texas, Mexico is the real problem. So that's what I addressed. We don't open the front doors to our houses and let just anyone walk right on in because they have less and we have more and life's not fair. People need to enter the US (and any other country) legally. If it takes years, that's sad, but no one is entitled live in whatever country they want. It's a privilege, not a right.

 

[FireDancer]

I truly do not think things will get better in Mexico without a revolution or something darn close to it. Closing the border might force that to happen sooner rather than later. So long as it's open, the US is their escape hatch and a way to take the pressure off. Their government is seemingly helpless against the cartels and is barely hanging on. I just think it's a lost cause and something has to give....something BIG. Plenty of countries have been forced to the point of revolution and come out stronger for it, the US included. Mexico simply MUST get better....Its citizens deserve more and should not have to flee the country to have a decent life. But I do not believe the country will ever get better until the issue is forced.

That is most likely the case but we were at a very similar crossroad in 1776. Our forefathers decided it was time to start over and fought to make it happen. Many countries are at that same crossroad now and it is up to them whether they decide to kick out the government they don't like and crate the one they do or put up with it.

In 200 years they to can take all the same things for granted that we do but it requires some generation to make a stand. Emigration is only one way to make a better life, revolution is another and for the totality of the population it may even be the better choice.

 

[terri01p]

 

[Carys]

Might I suggest NZ's approach of having a huge shark-filled moat?

Our law changed in 2005 so that being born here doesn't automatically make you a NZ citizen, to stop anchor babies. Otherwise, it's hard to illegally enter NZ, simply as a matter of geographical luck.

It must be very difficult to have to secure contiguous land immigration borders.

 

[teskak]

Unfortunately as an Aussie, our borders are much much closer than NZs with much easier coast line to get to.

What do you do for boats which are terribly over laden so that they sink during the summer storms and 200 are killed?

What do you do when some are prepared to torch thier boats so that they have to be taken in and onto dry land? Is it right for people to then be put in a prison in a desert for 5 years while thier claims are decided? That is the Australian way

 

[golfgal]

The answer is legal immigration, plain and simple. No, it is not easy and yes it is expensive but it is that way for a REASON. Yes, there are plenty of places in the world that are not nice places to live and are downright dangerous but the entire world's population can't live in the US. We have to be reasonable with who and how many people we let into the country in order to provide for them as well. Imagine if we had a sudden influx of several million people who did not have jobs or money yet they needed food, clothing, shelter, education. Imagine the strain on already overspent federal budget.

I look at our town for example, if we had a sudden influx of even 200 families, we would have to build 3 new schools and find a way to house all of those families. It isn't something that could be done quickly and where would the money come from to do that? We are at a limit for how much the school district can tax the residents so that isn't an option, our governor has a major aversion to taxes so we have a HUGE deficit on the state level and we all know what the budget looks like on the federal level. Now, if the immigrants had jobs and income to support themselves, great, the extra taxes would help but not solve the problems.

 

[luvmy3]

I just got a call recently asking me to call my Senator and urge him to supporta bill that would document illegals working here. Of course he didn't say "illegal immigrant" so when I asked if he was talking about illegals he stuttered and stamered because he didn't want to say "yes". I told him that I would never support anything for those who don't belong in this country, and told him he should be ashamed for asking US citizens to.

That pretty much explains how I feel about illegal immigrants.

 

[Art 1]

Illegal immigration would be easy to come close to stopping if the gov't wanted to stop it. I will not say how as it would not go over well on this forum.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

I am friends with several illegal aliens. All have been here 10 plus years. They work, get paid as 1099 employees, and the IRS has given them an ITIN.

ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code.

My friends pay their taxes, make $50,000 plus and own homes. Why wouldn't I want them to live here? Their children (also illegal) are in college and doing well.

They have tried to become citizens - the process is unwieldy - even with an attorney.

 

[golfgal]

I am friends with several illegal aliens. All have been here 10 plus years. They work, get paid as 1099 employees, and the IRS has given them an ITIN.

ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code.

My friends pay their taxes, make $50,000 plus and own homes. Why wouldn't I want them to live here? Their children (also illegal) are in college and doing well.

They have tried to become citizens - the process is unwieldy - even with an attorney.

HOW?? If they are truly illegal none of this would be happening for them. They have to have some kind of work visa. You can be an immigrant and be legal without being a citizen.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

HOW?? If they are truly illegal none of this would be happening for them. They have to have some kind of work visa. You can be an immigrant and be legal without being a citizen.

Truly illegal - I promise. No green cards.
You do not have to provide a SSN as an independent contractor - you simply give them your ITIN number.

 

[MIGrandma]

I am torn on this. On one hand I don't mind, because we have several Mexican families in our area and they work at the large cattle operations in the area. They are not taking jobs away from Americans, because most people around here don't want to work those jobs. The Mexicans are here working to provide for their families, and send money home. I worked with a couple of the girls at the restaurant and they were very nice. They are just people, like us, trying to make a better life for themselves and their children. I don't know if they are all here legally or not, but I would prefer them to go through the proper channels and be here legally. Pay their taxes like the rest of us do. But they are hard working people. The only thing I really hate is many of them don't learn to speak any English.

 

[golfgal]

Truly illegal - I promise. No green cards.
You do not have to provide a SSN as an independent contractor - you simply give them your ITIN number.

So they live in fear of being deported every day, right? There is something missing here. After 10 years here they should at least TRY to become legal.

 

[Disney Doll]

Illegal immigration has wreaked havoc on Texas. It is crippling us. It's easy to have a generous attitude when it has little effect on your life, but for those of us in border states who have witnessed the negative effects of 25+ years of uncontrolled illegal immigration, we're tired of dealing with the reality of a spineless federal government.

The people who cross illegally are not (with rare exceptions) evil or horrible people. On an individual basis, they are not objectionable. But the reality is, the US simply cannot afford to take on millions of IIs and their offspring. It would be great if we had an endless supply of money and could take on every needy person in the world, but we can't. That is a fantasy. If we don't stop this, soon we will be a third world country.

The solution is for the people in other countries (Mexico affects Texas the most so for me, it springs to mind) is to make changes in their own countries so those countries are places one would want to remain in. I would be thrilled if we completely shut down the US/Mexico border. The narco-terrorism is enough to warrant that..... No longer are the only Mexicans coming here those who "just want to make a living." In my small neighborhood, we have MANY wealthy Mexicans who have fled out of sheer fear. Kidnappings are real threat. Ask my neighbor who only escaped being kidnapped due to being on vacation....They mistakenly got an employee instead. The poor are leaving, the wealthy are leaving....And bringing many of the same problems here with them.

I truly do not think things will get better in Mexico without a revolution or something darn close to it. Closing the border might force that to happen sooner rather than later. So long as it's open, the US is their escape hatch and a way to take the pressure off. Their government is seemingly helpless against the cartels and is barely hanging on. I just think it's a lost cause and something has to give....something BIG. Plenty of countries have been forced to the point of revolution and come out stronger for it, the US included. Mexico simply MUST get better....Its citizens deserve more and should not have to flee the country to have a decent life. But I do not believe the country will ever get better until the issue is forced.

Instead of asking what we can do to help illegal immigrants, we should be asking why countries like Mexico aren't doing more to make people want to stay put....Why aren't we holding them accountable for the conditions that make people feel they have to run to survive?

So close the border to the best of our ability, make the businesses who hire illegal aliens sorry that they ever did, and when we deport them, my dream would be to drop them by parachute on to the Mexican version of The White House and not 3 feet over the border. Mexico treats anyone entering their country illegally in an extraordinarily harsh manner, yet expects us to open them with open arms. Don't think so.

I realize people enter illegally from other countries, but as I said, for Texas, Mexico is the real problem. So that's what I addressed. We don't open the front doors to our houses and let just anyone walk right on in because they have less and we have more and life's not fair. People need to enter the US (and any other country) legally. If it takes years, that's sad, but no one is entitled live in whatever country they want. It's a privilege, not a right.

I agreewith every single solitary word you said. I know you addressed Mexican illegal immigration specfically, but your word ring true for every illegal immigrant, regardless of country of origin.

And yes, my relatives were immigrants. And yes, it was hard when they first came here. But they got legalized, learned English and became contributing members of the USA. You want to live here? Happy to have you...get documented, get legalized and pay taxes.