If you have seen Blackfish.....

[ToyStory3]

Exactly. Because Sea World is punishing the orcas and withholding their food to turn them into trained poodles and force them to perform. Uhm...and they're eating their trainers.

 

[livndisney]

Probably because Sea World built a multi billion dollar empire under false pretenses. They lied to their trainers, and had them, in turn, lie to the public. They kept a lot of stuff hush hush and swept negative things under the rug. Their attorneys blamed Ms. Brancheau's death on HER, claiming it was her fault. They lied about her being pulled in by her ponytail. They tried to turn the tables to cover themselves. For years, thy lied to every one of the people who went to their parks and saw the whale show. I bet you are familiar with the line "the whales enjoy doing these "behaviors"...they have SO much fun jumping up and splashing the crowds! These are natural behaviors you see in the wild. It's totally normal for the dorsal fins to be flopped over; that is seen in the wild in 25-35% of Orcas." It's all LIES. And that is shameful.

To my knowledge, most reputable zoos are NON PROFIT research and true educational facilities. I've never been to a zoo where the animals do tricks.

Ditto the above for AK. AK is set up to learn about the animals from people who actually know what they are talking about. Again, no animals doing tricks, except maybe the Flights of Wonder show.

As for circuses, well, the use of animals is dramatically decreasing at those as well due to people's opinions changing over time.

Sea World seems to know that their entire Shamu Enterprise is in danger, and all they have done about it is pretend "there's nothing to see here...move along..oh yeah, we do conservation and stuff, so just pretend that balances out all the messed up whale related stuff and keep coming to our parks and don't forget to buy a Shamu plush for your kid."

If Disney all of a sudden decided to plop a tank in the middle of Epcot and put their dolphins in there to perform several trick shows during the day, THEN you'd have people directing their outrage towards Disney.

You mean like this?
http://www.imagineeringdisney.com/blog/2010/5/31/daredevil-circus-spectacular-at-epcot-center.html

 

[DLgal]

You mean like this?
http://www.imagineeringdisney.com/blog/2010/5/31/daredevil-circus-spectacular-at-epcot-center.html

Yes. Ha ha. 1987...the height of circus fever in America.

That wouldn't even pass the discussion phase nowadays.

 

[kbelle8995]

There was a time when I visited Sea World and someone can let me know if this still existed. I don't think that it does.

They had a lovely attraction that was around Manatees. Now Manatees are an endangered species here in Florida. They are near and dear to my heart. Sea World had Manatees that were injured by human carelessness. People who drive their boats so fast harming the manatees as well as damaging their environment. You can see the scars on their backs. Epcot has them at the Seas with Nemo Now.

I cannot forget that Sea World had these animals where guests could see them and see the damage that we do to them. We need to understand this. If it got one guest to slow down their boat then it was a job well done.

Like I said I do hope the shows are Phased out and we are allowed to see these animals in a habitat that is better for them. (Better tanks) I hope that I did not get too political

 

[lexandme]

Here is the link to watch The Cove online.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/the_cove_2009/

 

[julieannboo]

Today is the 30th anniversary of Tilkium being captured from Iceland.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

I have a question about all of this.

Why is Seaworld the target here and not things like Ringling Brothers Circus or the Animal Kingdom or Epcot? Or horse racing? Or "swim with the fill in the blank"?

All keep animals that usually roam freely for our entertainment.

I see no outrage or threats to never visit any of these places.

I'm always curious when this discussion pops up (and it does every once in a while) why SeaWorld is singled out.

My guess is it comes up because its a competitor of the Disney parks. And there is a LOT of Disney loyalty on these boards .

 

[JimmyV]

My guess is it comes up because its a competitor of the Disney parks. And there is a LOT of Disney loyalty on these boards .

I think that is far too cynical a view. My answer to Kevin's question comes not from the supposed focal point of Blackfish, (i.e., the death of the trainer), but from the subtle (and not so subtle) sub-stories that are just as horrifying. The trainer was killed. In fact, more than one trainer has died while in the water with orcas. To me, that is sad but unremarkable. Mix humans with killer whales and this result is inevitable. This was the least insightful storyline in Blackfish.

What really got me mad, and the reason why I will not return to SW, and the reason why SW makes my blood boil more so than AK, was the callous harvesting of animals bred in captivity. The pictures and sounds of the mother whales grieving after their calves had been stripped away was more than I could bear. A lion cub is weaned from its mother and then separated. It is natural. Moving a lion from zoo "A" to zoo "B" is nowhere near as traumaatic. But a whale calf stays with its mother for years. Decades. Maybe longer. The cruelty of breaking that bond was way beyond my comprehension, and as long as this breeding and cleaving continues, I cannot support the business model. If someone can show me that AK strips mothers from their offspring in the same manner, then I will think of AK in the same light. But as for now, I see a real difference.

The other point that really angered me was the way SW staff were trained to blatantly lie to the guests. "Orcas live longer in captivity. Up to 30-35 years." And "one-third of all male whales have curled-over dorsal fins." That conduct is infuriating. Maybe I wear rose colored glasses, but I don't think WDW is in the business of blatant lying to cover its track record of animal abuse. Again, I am open to persuasion, but I just haven't seen it.

So, no, I will not return to SW as long as the orca program continues. Not because a trainer died. But because of the way the calves are stripped from their mothers and because of the way "research and science" is so unjustifiably twisted and tainted. One could almost forgive P.T. Barnum for his huckster ways in the 1880s. But now?? Unforgivable.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

I think that is far too cynical a view.

And you are welcome to that opinion . That said, I think is the reality of why many folks on the Dis seize the opportunity to jump on things like Blackfish to paint SW in a negative light.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

My guess is it comes up because its a competitor of the Disney parks. And there is a LOT of Disney loyalty on these boards .

While that may be true, I think the Theme Park forum alone (plus the DIS Unplugged podcast) should prove that Disney gets its fair share when doing something wrong.

 

[gmboy95]

as always there is The movies point of view, Sea Worlds point of view......and then the truth somewhere in between.

I as well will not step foot into a Sea World again until the following things are addressed

1) a complete moratorium on the capture of Animals purely for display and show purposes.

2) Sea World adopting an anti marine mammal killing stance and becoming active in the eradication of dolphin and whale killing around the world and stressing this message in their parks

3) I dont neccesarily believe it is best for animals that are born into captivity or rescued at an early age should be returned to the wild.....so I would not object to those animals being on display at the park. (the key word here is RESCUED)

start here and i am back in the park....otherwise there is blood on their hands

 

[lilmrsellis]

I have a VERY hard time believing the things alleged in Blackfish could have gone on for 50 years without it being a total scandal. ESPECIALLY in this day and age. Everyone can sneakily record in HD and social media will kill you.

 

[bastos]

We saw it when it opened in Pittsburgh.

We will not give Sea World any of our entertainment dollar.

The most problematic part of the mess in the film for me was the purposeful use of the whale to inbreed with his own children.

Not in an oops kind of way, either.

That, on top of its own internal mess in dealing with the whales has led me to believe that my family will not attend another Sea World event. Ever.

 

[julieannboo]

Tilikum will be playing another big performance tonight as Blackfish is being shown in the UK on BBC4 at 9pm.

We are right with you Tilikum and for all of the other captive whales past and present.

 

[mjaclyn]

I saw Blackfish and thought it was horrifying. I know that SW does a lot with animal rescue which is great, but I think that's all they should be doing with wild animals. Rescue, recover and release if possible. I'm sure Tilikum and some of the other whales in captivity probably could not be put back into the wild at this point, but stop the inbreeding!!! Retire them into a penned off part of the actual ocean and not a cement tank. I applaud SW's efforts to save animals, but IMO it's not enough to balance what they've done to the whales. And I also agree that while the whales killing trainers is HORRIBLE, it can't be that shocking because these are WILD ANIMALS. You can't expect to have close contact with animals without assuming that it is a big risk to take.

 

[GiggleGoddess]

I just watch Blackfish last night...and although it's pretty one sided I TOTALLY understand these bands pulling out! If Seaworld CONTINUES to deny that the animals did nothing wrong and not get rid of Tillikum (and breaking up the families) then they are delusional and deserve to go out of business. You do what's best for the ANIMALS...NOT YOUR FREAKING WALLETS! If they just kept the families together..you wouldn't have the whales fighting each other because they would be one unit...not this cut and paste kind of thing they are doing to them. I'm not boycotting Seaworld or anything (I've actually never gone)...but if what the documentary said is true...higher management is out of touch with reality.

 

[kbelle8995]

What I worry about is what will happen to these animals. I think this goes beyond Sea World. Majority of whales are hunted down for things other than appearing in a show. And that's just the whales.

If Sea World Goes out of Business, what do you think will happen to these animals. In many cases they will end up in someplace much worse.

It's not just Sea World folks that's all I'm saying.

 

[huntconn]

I think most documentaries approach their subject matter with at least some bias. With that being said, wouldn't Sea World be suing the makers of Blackfish if the information in the movie was untrue? I would think so.

 

[Albytaps]

I have not read every post in this thread yet (but I plan to.) So, I'll just jot down what I think so far as I have finally gotten around to watch Blackfish. I have heard about it of course, and checked the Seaworld Section of Disboards. I saw one topic on the front page which had been locked on the 3rd post down. I'm glad there is somewhere to discuss this interesting topic.

Blackfish confirmed, what I had closed one eye to for most of my life about Seaworld. Whales are just too darn big to be happy in a friggen pool. I already knew whales were smart animals, but to the extent they show in the film is amazing. They surely don't deserve to be separated from their families, and need more room to be happy enough.

I was pretty disgusted at how misinformed the Seaworld employees are (either that or they're are flat our liars) about how long these animals live in the wild compared to captivity. Also, how the accidents are kept secret even from the employees is basically putting people at risk by management/ownership.

You need to read the response from Sea World before jumping on the anti-Sea World bandwagon: http://www.wdwinfo.com/news/seaworl...disney-updates+(Disney+Updates+-+wdwinfo.com)

At the end of the film they captioned that Seaworld did not want to do any interviews. I guess they figured that even if they did do interviews that they were screwed anyway. That response from Seaworld just states the obvious, and some BS in there as well.

"There is no acknowledgment anywhere in the film of the great things SeaWorld does every day or the simple fact that our animals are healthy and passionately cared for."

This quote from the response is BS. The ex-workers state that the animals are very well cared for and loved by the trainers. The trainers work with them everyday and look forward to it. That doesn't mean the whales are completely happy. They are too big for a pool and fight with each other during the night where they are held in even smaller pools.

Well, I did read it, but it absolutely does NOT change my mind. Did you watch the movie? Do you think that all of those people are being dishonest?

I'm not a vegetarian. Not a bleeding heart for animal rights. Nothing even close to any of that stuff.

However, I just can't rationalize such horrendous cruelty to animals strictly to make money for some and amusement for others. Is our entertainment really that important? I think it's horrible.

But, of course, just my opinion.

I feel the same way. The cruelty you mention is not blatent. I'm sure the staff try to treat the animals as best as they can. But just the fact that these animals are so social and live with their families, taking away their babies could be the most cruel thing someone could ever do to them. Then they stick them in small pools where the the females can gang up on the male and turn it psycho... wonderful.


The bottom line is, it's dangerous for the trainers no matter what. However, they choose to do it ,and hopefully by now, know fully well enough they're putting themselves at risk. But if they choose to do that job, it's on them. The fact that Seaworld held information about previous accidents from their employees is sick.

I won't say never... but I have no intention of going to see the killer whales at Seaworld any more. If anything, I will go for the rides... but even then, I might as well go somewhere else.

 

[Albytaps]

I have a question about all of this.

Why is Seaworld the target here and not things like Ringling Brothers Circus or the Animal Kingdom or Epcot? Or horse racing? Or "swim with the fill in the blank"?

All keep animals that usually roam freely for our entertainment.

I see no outrage or threats to never visit any of these places.

I'm always curious when this discussion pops up (and it does every once in a while) why SeaWorld is singled out.

Because whales are different. They are huge and have to live in water. They are smart and need to be social. I'm not saying other animals should be caged, but just wanted to give my opinion of the question "why whales?"