If you have seen Blackfish.....

[V a n e s s a]

I have seen the movies, read the response from Sea World.

The movie only reinforces the decision I made years ago never to go to Sea World after I saw the size of the pool in which dolphins are kept at Sea World: we were horrified and walked straight out.

Both Orcas and dolphins, if they are to be kept in captivity for "educational" and "conservation" purposes, are to be kept in suitably sized enclosures in the ocean and not forced to do tricks and shows.

Frankly I do not see how dolphin and orca shows are in any way educational; they are very sad.

 

[ToyStory3]

I've watched the movie and read Sea World's response. I realized before the movie that giant whales should not be treated as trained poodles. Withholding their food and punishing them to do circus tricks doesn't feel right. And, they shouldn't spend their lives in a tank. But, I didn't need the movie to point that out to me. Watching the boats hunt them down and rip their babies away from them showed how these whales were brought to Sea World. Those are facts. Nothing educational or conservation there.

 

[sayhello]

I've watched the movie and read Sea World's response. I realized before the movie that giant whales should not be treated as trained poodles. Withholding their food and punishing them to do circus tricks doesn't feel right. And, they shouldn't spend their lives in a tank. But, I didn't need the movie to point that out to me. Watching the boats hunt them down and rip their babies away from them showed how these whales were brought to Sea World. Those are facts. Nothing educational or conservation there.

You do realize that those films are from the 1960's and 1980's and that they no longer get whales that way? That most of the whales that Sea World has were injured rescues or were rescued from other facilities? That they'd have been killed if not for Sea World?

Sayhello

 

[DLgal]

You do realize that those films are from the 1960's and 1980's and that they no longer get whales that way? That most of the whales that Sea World has were injured rescues or were rescued from other facilities? That they'd have been killed if not for Sea World?

Sayhello

Uh, no, that's not true. Sea World does not use rescued injured Orcas for the Shamu show. Many of them currently were born in captivity and are descendants of Tillikum. Or, they were brought in from other marine parks that went out of business (who captured them from the wild). Prior to having a breeding program in place, Sea World CAPTURED healthy, wild Orcas and imported them for the parks.

 

[stormtracker]

You do realize that those films are from the 1960's and 1980's and that they no longer get whales that way? That most of the whales that Sea World has were injured rescues or were rescued from other facilities? That they'd have been killed if not for Sea World? Sayhello

This is not true. Sea World currently owns 17 orcas. 12 were born (most at Sea World) in captivity, 5 were captured in the wild. None were injured rescues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_captive_orcas#
http://theorcaproject.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/orcas-living-by-park-2013-10-22.pdf

 

[ToyStory3]

They also sell their orcas babies to poorly run Sea World wannabes where they are poorly treated and usually die sickly deaths. They rip them from their families at a young age. But they make lots of money.

 

[V a n e s s a]

You might want to see the documentary "The Cove" (dated 2009) which also depicts how dolphins are captured to be sold to aquariums.

 

[Decorated_Dust]

If Blackfish made you curious, I highly recommend the book "Death at SeaWorld" by David Kirby. It essentially makes the same argument "Blackfish" does, but gives MUCH more information. With a movie, it's easy to accuse of bias since the medium is so limited. While I liked Blackfish, I would never recommend it to someone as the sole learning tool. The book is much more compelling. After reading the book, it is impossible to justify keeping killer whales in captivity unless you have an IV of SeaWorld kool-aid. The most powerful piece if evidence is the stories of individual captive orcas and the way many of them died. Spoiler alert: it is rarely of natural causes. Another example of curious information is that according to Dawn's autopsy report, drowning and blunt trauma were the main causes of death. However, the only evidence of drowning was about 4 millimeters of water in the nasal cavity. However, the descriptions of blunt trauma were pages long. I've gotten more than that in my nose while swimming, and I didn't drown.

Another part I harp on is the education, which is supposed to be the justification for captivity. Kirby gives a list of requirements for SeaWorld trainers and educators that pretty much tells them to dumb down everything to a fifth grade level. If you watch the video taken before Dawn was killed, you see an example of the "education" in the killer whale program. You learn nothing about their social patterns, the different families, origins, brain size, diet, how to protect them in the wild, etc. It's all about how they are trained, and how much they "love" certain stimulation. In fact, the conservation education at SeaWorld has very little on major environmental threats like climate change and overpopulation because they don't want to offend people. Unfortunately, the whole point of education is to challenge us, and if SeaWorld does not provide that, they they are failing in education.

Like the makers of Blackfish and David Kirby, I don't want SeaWorld to close, but I will not go back until they lay out a retirement plan for their whales.

 

[EAW]

Interesting tidbit about the survey, it asks whether the movie changed your mind about visiting, but it does not ask whether you would have visited in the first place!

So for instance, if someone already was not a fan of Sea World and already did not want to go, then the movie would unlikely change his or her mind to actually go and vice versa! Then, this would skew your results, so the survey may not be an overly accurate portrayal of its affects on consumer behavior.

 

[lexandme]

CNN conducted it's own poll. After airing Blackfish; 86% of those asked "Would you take your kids to Sea World?" stated they would NOT visit Sea World. 14% stated they would. 5,693 responded.

I think Blackfish is making difference!
I personally believe cetacean captivity is cruelty. I never took my children to an abusement park like Sea World, Miami Seaquarium, Marineland, etc. They never had to see a whale in a concrete tank to respect and understand we need to protect all living things.
Saying it's a learning experience and an education is just an excuse to watch the horror.

 

[FLSarah]

CNN conducted it's own poll. After airing Blackfish; 86% of those asked "Would you take your kids to Sea World?" stated they would NOT visit Sea World. 14% stated they would. 5,693 responded.

I think Blackfish is making difference!
I personally believe cetacean captivity is cruelty. I never took my children to an abusement park like Sea World, Miami Seaquarium, Marineland, etc. They never had to see a whale in a concrete tank to respect and understand we need to protect all living things.
Saying it's a learning experience and an education is just an excuse to watch the horror.

I completely agree on all points. About 8 years ago I decided I was going to take my son to the Miami Seaquarium, so I looked it up online. I was completely horrified and decided then that we would never go there or places like it. My son did not need to see abuse in the form of entertainment in order to care about animals. He is extremely compassionate and understands that animals are not put here for our amusement or "education."

 

[Jennygt]

Interesting tidbit about the survey, it asks whether the movie changed your mind about visiting, but it does not ask whether you would have visited in the first place!

So for instance, if someone already was not a fan of Sea World and already did not want to go, then the movie would unlikely change his or her mind to actually go and vice versa! Then, this would skew your results, so the survey may not be an overly accurate portrayal of its affects on consumer behavior.

Such a good point. I am no good surveys, I was trying to be neutral.

 

[edoyle7185]

I have never been to any Seaworld park and I plan on never going to one. As silly as this sounds I vowed to never going to a Seaworld type of park back when I was about 7 and saw the movie Free Willy. As corny as that movie is it is what really made me interested and appreciate cetaceans. For one of my birthday presents that year my mom even made a donation in my name to the Free Willy - Keiko Foundation.

For anyone that is interested I also suggest watching Frontline: A Whale of A Business and Lolita: Slave To Entertainment. I believe both of them are up on youtube.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I have a question about all of this.

Why is Seaworld the target here and not things like Ringling Brothers Circus or the Animal Kingdom or Epcot? Or horse racing? Or "swim with the fill in the blank"?

All keep animals that usually roam freely for our entertainment.

I see no outrage or threats to never visit any of these places.

I'm always curious when this discussion pops up (and it does every once in a while) why SeaWorld is singled out.

 

[kbelle8995]

I have a question about all of this.

Why is Seaworld the target here and not things like Ringling Brothers Circus or the Animal Kingdom or Epcot? Or horse racing? Or "swim with the fill in the blank"?

All keep animals that usually roam freely for our entertainment.

I see no outrage or threats to never visit any of these places.

I'm always curious when this discussion pops up (and it does every once in a while) why SeaWorld is singled out.

True. I would like to know as well. It's not just SeaWorld.

 

[lexandme]

I have a question about all of this.

Why is Seaworld the target here and not things like Ringling Brothers Circus or the Animal Kingdom or Epcot? Or horse racing? Or "swim with the fill in the blank"?

All keep animals that usually roam freely for our entertainment.

I see no outrage or threats to never visit any of these places.

I'm always curious when this discussion pops up (and it does every once in a while) why SeaWorld is singled out.

This thread was started to discuss Blackfish. Not AK, Epcot or any circus. That is why you're not seeing these places discussed. Sea World is the owner of Tillikum and many other captive orcas. It is where Ms Brancheau was killed. They are the ones that must answer to the perverse spectacle that was exposed in Blackfish.

I think you will find most of the posters on this and other Blackfish and dolphin captivity threads are outraged by any animal abuse and cruel captivity practices. I'm sure if you start a thread addressing other concerns you would have lots of feedback.

On a personal note, I boycott any circus, swim with ____________ programs promote the rehab and release of the Epcot dolphins via petition, letters and education, am a card carrying member of Sea Shepherd, Ric O'Barry's Dolphin Project and Greenpeace. And I will never set foot in any Sea World, Miami Seaquarium, Marineland or other aquarium that keeps cetaceans in small tanks.

 

[DisneyKevin]

As someone who has been around a while...I have seen these threads before.

I am certainly not questioning jennyqt's reasoning for posting.

My question was not why we're there are no mentions of AK it Epcot in this thread, but why is there never any mention if that...ever. Why is SeaWorld the lighting rod.

I hope that clears things up.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

I refuse to watch Blackfish. I do not like to see animals abused or mistreated. Do I think that Killer whales should be on show no. I also know that Sea World does much to assist in conservation of these animals including Killer Whales.

I hope that eventually Sea World will phase out the shows and just let us see the animals and make better tanks for them.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[DSNY4ever]

Hmm I haven't seen Blackfish yet, but my husband and I already made the decision years ago not to go places like Sea World (we have been before and decided after more research that we don't wish to go again). We do research on any venue keeping animals in captivity before we go (and yes the Animal Kingdom raised a few flags especially in their first year of being open...eek!). I don't think Sea World is all bad, they do some good things. I am always on the fence about animals in captivity in general, there's good and bad, but I don't think Killer Whales are meant to be in captivity. We just don't have the venues for these animals to live a good life.

I do plan to see it and I am sure I will be traumatized! I didn't vote because I haven't seen it and I doubt it will change my mind to *start* going to sea world

 

[DLgal]

As someone who has been around a while...I have seen these threads before.

I am certainly not questioning jennyqt's reasoning for posting.

My question was not why we're there are no mentions of AK it Epcot in this thread, but why is there never any mention if that...ever. Why is SeaWorld the lighting rod.

I hope that clears things up.

Probably because Sea World built a multi billion dollar empire under false pretenses. They lied to their trainers, and had them, in turn, lie to the public. They kept a lot of stuff hush hush and swept negative things under the rug. Their attorneys blamed Ms. Brancheau's death on HER, claiming it was her fault. They lied about her being pulled in by her ponytail. They tried to turn the tables to cover themselves. For years, thy lied to every one of the people who went to their parks and saw the whale show. I bet you are familiar with the line "the whales enjoy doing these "behaviors"...they have SO much fun jumping up and splashing the crowds! These are natural behaviors you see in the wild. It's totally normal for the dorsal fins to be flopped over; that is seen in the wild in 25-35% of Orcas." It's all LIES. And that is shameful.

To my knowledge, most reputable zoos are NON PROFIT research and true educational facilities. I've never been to a zoo where the animals do tricks.

Ditto the above for AK. AK is set up to learn about the animals from people who actually know what they are talking about. Again, no animals doing tricks, except maybe the Flights of Wonder show.

As for circuses, well, the use of animals is dramatically decreasing at those as well due to people's opinions changing over time.

Sea World seems to know that their entire Shamu Enterprise is in danger, and all they have done about it is pretend "there's nothing to see here...move along..oh yeah, we do conservation and stuff, so just pretend that balances out all the messed up whale related stuff and keep coming to our parks and don't forget to buy a Shamu plush for your kid."

If Disney all of a sudden decided to plop a tank in the middle of Epcot and put their dolphins in there to perform several trick shows during the day, THEN you'd have people directing their outrage towards Disney.