Resort Time to sell out?

[Brian Noble]

patience is also time; time=hours. Some people spend days or months looking for the "perfect" contract at the cheapest price and I believe that is what Brian was talking about above.

Exactly so. My time is valuable, because it is the one thing I am not going to get more of. I can get more money, but even that requires trading time one way or another. And for whatever reason, I am exceptionally sensitive to my time's value*.

Here's an example. When I started at Michigan, land-line phone calls cost actual money, and were billed by the minute. (Yes, I am that old.) A few months after I started, the lab adminstrator came to my office with a set of printouts, asking me why I hadn't completed my phone bills. Apparently, I was supposed to go over each monthly bill, and identify which calls were business (and therefore paid by the University) and which calls were personal (these were deducted from my pay that month.)

I took the papers, looked at the monthly bottom line (which was on the order of dollars-to-tens-of-dollars), handed them back, and said: "These are all personal. In fact, every call I ever make is personal. Don't ever ask me again." It was worth $8/month (which was slightly more than a pizza back then) for me to not have to spend the time keeping track of the calls.

But with DVC points, time passing plays two roles. One is the "direct expense" of the time I am spending: time reviewing contracts, making offers, responding to counters, etc. etc. etc. But the other is the "indirect expense" of not having the points. The longer I go before making a deal, the longer it is before I can use those points to book a vacation. And the point of points is to take vacations.

Now, if this were fun for me, I wouldn't mind doing it. But it is not fun. There are other things I spend a stupid amount of time on, but I do that because it is (mostly) fun. Like writing lengthy DISboards posts.

If you find the negotating fun, more power to you. If the money really matters, then you might not need it to be quite as fun. I probably could have squeezed another couple hundred out of my last deal, but in the grand scheme of things I won't miss it, and it was not worth it to me to spend the extra time and potentially lose the deal.

There is almost never just one way to do something "correctly." It almost always depends on what is important to the person doing the doing.

-----
*: A colleague once shared with me a fascinating question. Suppose I had some task for you to complete, and if you dropped everything and devoted your focus to this task for some period of time T, you would save 10 days of effort over the next year. So, the question is: How long does T have to be before you decline the offer?

The answer ends up measuring your temporal interest rate, or equivalently your "time value of time"---how much more your current time is worth compared to your future time, much in the same way that your current dollar is worth more than a future dollar.

When I was a grad student, T was measured in days (but quite a few less than 10). As an assistant professor, it was measured in hours if not minutes, becuase I simply had. no. time.

 

[Sandisw]

Me … I turn it into a sport I think it’s fine for those who enjoy it. There are those who don’t and that’s fine too.

I think that was the original point. We all value different things but trying to get the cheapest contract takes time and not everyone wants to spend that kind of time.

I did not…once I decided to buy, I found what I wanted, made what I thought was fair and waited to see what happened.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

Exactly so. My time is valuable, because it is the one thing I am not going to get more of. I can get more money, but even that requires trading time one way or another. And for whatever reason, I am exceptionally sensitive to my time's value*.

Here's an example. When I started at Michigan, land-line phone calls cost actual money, and were billed by the minute. (Yes, I am that old.) A few months after I started, the lab adminstrator came to my office with a set of printouts, asking me why I hadn't completed my phone bills. Apparently, I was supposed to go over each monthly bill, and identify which calls were business (and therefore paid by the University) and which calls were personal (these were deducted from my pay that month.)

I took the papers, looked at the monthly bottom line (which was on the order of dollars-to-tens-of-dollars), handed them back, and said: "These are all personal. In fact, every call I ever make is personal. Don't ever ask me again." It was worth $8/month (which was slightly more than a pizza back then) for me to not have to spend the time keeping track of the calls.

But with DVC points, time passing plays two roles. One is the "direct expense" of the time I am spending: time reviewing contracts, making offers, responding to counters, etc. etc. etc. But the other is the "indirect expense" of not having the points. The longer I go before making a deal, the longer it is before I can use those points to book a vacation. And the point of points is to take vacations.

Now, if this were fun for me, I wouldn't mind doing it. But it is not fun. There are other things I spend a stupid amount of time on, but I do that because it is (mostly) fun. Like writing lengthy DISboards posts.

If you find the negotating fun, more power to you. If the money really matters, then you might not need it to be quite as fun. I probably could have squeezed another couple hundred out of my last deal, but in the grand scheme of things I won't miss it, and it was not worth it to me to spend the extra time and potentially lose the deal.

There is almost never just one way to do something "correctly." It almost always depends on what is important to the person doing the doing.

-----
*: A colleague once shared with me a fascinating question. Suppose I had some task for you to complete, and if you dropped everything and devoted your focus to this task for some period of time T, you would save 10 days of effort over the next year. So, the question is: How long does T have to be before you decline the offer?

The answer ends up measuring your temporal interest rate, or equivalently your "time value of time"---how much more your current time is worth compared to your future time, much in the same way that your current dollar is worth more than a future dollar.

When I was a grad student, T was measured in days (but quite a few less than 10). As an assistant professor, it was measured in hours if not minutes, becuase I simply had. no. time.

Where’s your data string though?

 

[Brian Noble]

I did not feel compelled to share it, because how much I spend on vacations isn't anyone else's business. Likewise, I generally never explicitly share my point total in the periodic polls, though you could probably guess and get it almost on the nose based on what I've written elsewhere.

My perception is that the original purpose of the ROFR board was to track pass/take decisions. And with one or two notable exceptions (mostly GFV, which I was not buying) there is little reason to do that, because DVC is buying back essentially nothing.

Instead (and again this is my perception) it has devolved into a place for folks to brag about their deals, which I am not interested in doing. Secondarily, it is also a place where people pass unasked judgement on others' decisions, and I am definitely not interested in being on the receiving end of that.

One thing it is not: a reflection of the overall market. The market is a range. The ROFR board tells us only the bottom end of that range, because we are a self-selecting group of people looking for really good deals. Because I was not trying to explore the bottom of the range, my data does not add much value beyond "One seller was wiling to accept price $X." And, I will guarantee you that I am not the only one who decided not to share details of a sale, and some of those people did not share details precisely because they weren't "great deals".

If you want to know the general market, two of the larger brokers helpfully post monthly averages of actual sales prices. Those are much more informative of where the overall market happens to be. When I was a buyer, I was looking for something comfortably but not excessively under that reported average, and that's exactly what I got. If I were ever to be a seller, I would treat the average as a floor, and set my asking price modestly above it.

Now, I was happy to share my Closing Time dates, because that is information that is useful to anyone.

 

[intamin]

Me … I turn it into a sport I think it’s fine for those who enjoy it. There are those who don’t and that’s fine too.

Yeahhh I don't and I think it was hard for me to get over that I'm not the most patient and therefore didn't get the best deal on my resale contracts so I was like well, I might as well buy direct and at least get the benefit of having more fully unrestricted points then.

On the other hand, I don't really care that much and feel sorry for people who try to use it as a way of judging others. If you're spending your time trying to dig through old ROFR threads to judge how people spent their money you probably need something better to do with your time.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Yeahhh I don't and I think it was hard for me to get over that I'm not the most patient and therefore didn't get the best deal on my resale contracts so I was like well, I might as well buy direct and at least get the benefit of having more fully unrestricted points then

Oh imagine if we could negotiate direct purchases. I would be in huge trouble (debt). I thoroughly enjoy the negotiation process. I’ve always been that way. I love buying cars and people have actually taken me with them to help since I can’t buy my own new cars often,

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

Yeahhh I don't and I think it was hard for me to get over that I'm not the most patient and therefore didn't get the best deal on my resale contracts so I was like well, I might as well buy direct and at least get the benefit of having more fully unrestricted points then.

On the other hand, I don't really care that much and feel sorry for people who try to use it as a way of judging others. If you're spending your time trying to dig through old ROFR threads to judge how people spent their money you probably need something better to do with your time.

When you correct someone and put lol after it, it’s judging. Don’t forget to look in the mirror.

 

[intamin]

When you correct someone and put lol after it, it’s judging. Don’t forget to look in the mirror.

This post was not directed at you. I generally try to stay away from the ROFR thread because it is toxic to look at and judge others based on how much they were able to get their contracts for. If you go into it with that mindset you will either say :

A) I got my contract for cheaper, I did better than them
B) my contract costs more, I should've done better

When in reality none of that even matters. The whole point was to get more Disney trips at a price point that was acceptable for your family. Shortly after my last resale buy in 2023, I stopped monitoring it because it wasn't good for my mental health. It's very hard to not compare. Now that I'm several years removed from buying resale I'll pop in occasionally but I still don't regularly monitor it unless there's no other topics being talked about. Even though I didn't get the absolute best deals, it's fine because I got what I needed WHEN I needed it. I can look at all these great deals on AKV now but look not that long ago AKV was actually going for 130 to 140. For the market at the time, I did fine. Another 5 years from now who knows what the market will dip or increase to. But again it doesn't matter, all that matters is I locked in what my family wanted.

My comment still stands though, if you're judging people based on whether or not they were able to save an extra 1-2000 dollars on their contract and digging through years of posts to make a point against them, this probably isn't the forum for you.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

This post was not directed at you. I generally try to stay away from the ROFR thread because it is toxic to look at and judge others based on how much they were able to get their contracts for. My comment still stands though, if you're judging people based on whether or not they were able to save an extra 1-2000 dollars on their contract and digging through years of posts to make a point against them, this probably isn't the forum for you.

Good point. As a newbie, it’s all we have to go off of though. So we’re going to “judge” I guess. This is a forum for everybody. Disney is a place for everybody. If you post something, it’s documented. That’s how forums works. Why have a history of posts if you shouldn’t refer back to them?

 

[intamin]

Good point. As a newbie, it’s all we have to go off of though. So we’re going to “judge” I guess. This is a forum for everybody. Disney is a place for everybody. If you post something, it’s documented. That’s how forums works. Why have a history of posts if you shouldn’t refer back to them?

I think it's okay to look back, that's fine and it's good data to have. Every now and then I see how things were back when like Grand Cal was in sales and see what people were thinking is very interesting. It's when people use that information as a way of targeting them or judging them is when I have an issue with it.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

I think it's okay to look back, that's fine and it's good data to have. Every now and then I see how things were back when like Grand Cal was in sales and see what people were thinking is very interesting. It's when people use that information as a way of targeting them or judging them is when I have an issue with it.

You’re right. Will try to do better myself. The world needs more kindness.

 

[Brian Noble]

If you go into it with that mindset you will either say :

A) I got my contract for cheaper, I did better than them
B) my contract costs more, I should've done better

"Comparison is the thief of joy."
--Various

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

"Comparison is the thief of joy."
--Various

Yes, it is!

 

[Brian Noble]

I love buying cars and people have actually taken me with them to help since I can’t buy my own new cars often,

My ex was pretty good at this, and got a good deal on her "I'm separated" gift to herself.

On the other hand I don't enjoy it at all. My last car purchase was via Ford's X Plan. (U-M is a Ford fleet customer.) You get a price that is a small fraction above the employee rate, with no haggling required. It was truly painless.

Unfortunately, for my next car I expected to downsize from the Edge to the Escape, but 2026 is the last model year for the Escape, and even if I wanted to stay in the Edge, they killed that a few years ago, too. Unfortunately, there isn't anything left in Ford's product line that I would buy.

I could go late-model used, and that is probably sensible.

 

[Brian Noble]

Note to self: It looks like we are also a GM fleet customer....

 

[VGCgroupie]

My ex was pretty good at this, and got a good deal on her "I'm separated" gift to herself.

On the other hand I don't enjoy it at all. My last car purchase was via Ford's X Plan. (U-M is a Ford fleet customer.) You get a price that is a small fraction above the employee rate, with no haggling required. It was truly painless.

Unfortunately, for my next car I expected to downsize from the Edge to the Escape, but 2026 is the last model year for the Escape, and even if I wanted to stay in the Edge, they killed that a few years ago, too. Unfortunately, there isn't anything left in Ford's product line that I would buy.

We are Ford people. Every car in our household is Ford. 4 of them. I knew about X Plan but wasnt too too sad I couldn't get it. I have gotten close to those deals on my own, once even better. Except our last purchase it was the release of the F150 Tremor and all dealers were charging big markups. So I walked away paying sticker plus some extras like oil changes and extra money on our trade. But at least I didnt pay the markup so I was still just as happy!

I havent followed recently but hopefully they come out with a decent replacement of the Escape/Edge

 

[Brian Noble]

It sounds like the product pipeline is still a few years out. Apparently, the company thinks that recapturing 70% of current Escape owners into a different (and larger/more expensive) model when they change vehicles will be good enough. This is the same thing they did with the Edge: Kill the model, and upsell customers into larger cars.

I don't know about anyone else, but if I am an Escape owner, I am not looking to get into a Maverick pickup.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/ford-is-paying-escape-owners-to-stay-after-killing-the-model

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

Almost bought a Maverick. Thankfully I didn’t. IIRC, they had a lot of issues when they first came out.

 

[VGCgroupie]

It sounds like the product pipeline is still a few years out. Apparently, the company thinks that recapturing 70% of current Escape owners into a different (and larger/more expensive) model when they change vehicles will be good enough. This is the same thing they did with the Edge: Kill the model, and upsell customers into larger cars.

I don't know about anyone else, but if I am an Escape owner, I am not looking to get into a Maverick pickup.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/ford-is-paying-escape-owners-to-stay-after-killing-the-model

Yeah a Maverick is a no go. Went with my Mom to buy a car and we test drove the Maverick.