If you have an infant or are expecting please read this....

pyrxtc

<font color=deeppink>Married 10-5-02<br><font colo
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Consumer reports did a testing of infant car seat and only 2 passed their tests !! Only 2 !!

the ratings are here. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ings-child-car-seats/latest-ratings/index.htm

britax which I have heard people rave about for years only scored a 20 out of 100. Garco Snugride scored the 2nd highest with a score of 61 and Baby Trend Flex-Loc Adjustable Back scored the top with a score of 64. Those are the only two CR recommends getting. The others didn't pass the tests well. Please check the 2nd link even if you have older kids. They have the ratings for bigger car seats too.
 
From Carseatsite.com. This is a great article that dissects the CR report:



In their February 2007 issue, Consumer Reports (CR) made some controversial claims regarding the safety of infant seats. In the issue, they tested 12 infant seats in rigorous front and side impact tests and came to the conclusion that only 2 provided good protection overall, while 6 provided good protection when installed with a seat belt.


Federal guidelines (FMVSS 213) mandate that manufacturers perform a 30 mph frontal crash test on their car seats to assure the safety of the seats. This is a very severe crash that is worse than 98% of crashes in the U.S. A rear-facing car seat is installed on a standardized flat bench seat using a lap-only belt or the lower LATCH anchors; there is no lateral (side impact) test done. Rear-facing car seats are allowed to rotate down to the floor no more than 70 degrees. CR tested these seats using a frontal crash test of 35 mph and a lateral crash test of 38 mph. The test that CR put the car seats through is how new cars are tested; car seats are not designed to perform to this type of crash.


But running car seat crash tests that car seats are not designed for is only going to prove that car seats designed to withstand a 30 mph frontal impact may fail a test at a higher speed. If these seats were really that bad at keeping our infants safe, we'd be hearing about it far more often than we do. Crash investigators I talk to on a regular basis don't talk about car seats failing; what I hear about is misuse and failure to use a car seat at all. Let's deal with the more important issues of misuse and failure to use car seats first. Yes, we should get seats like the Dorel Eddie Bauer Comfort infant seat off the market, but we can prevent more deaths by making sure seats are installed correctly and children are buckled up in the seats correctly in the first place.


CR is a generalist magazine dealing with generalities. They test and report on everything from ice cream flavors to Medicare packages. It’s similar to seeing a general practitioner when you have a brain tumor. When you need specific information, you should see the expert in the field, not a generalist. CR may be able to find the basics of the issues, but to truly learn about car seats, you should consult a good child passenger safety technician. CR’s circle ratings system is an excellent example of this generalizing: the circles show a range within their scoring system, but don’t show a specific score (for example, 98 out of 100) or explain how they determined the score. CR often will say that a seat fails one of their tests, but doesn’t give specifics on why the seat fails the test. In the February 2007 issue, 8 infant seats failed their LATCH test. How did they fail? Did they over-rotate? Did the LATCH belts snap? CR doesn’t say. The magazine is also secretive in its testing procedures. It won’t share where it conducted the tests, doesn’t disclose pictures of the setup of the car seats on the bench or when the children/dummies are being buckled in, and sometimes rate models of seats that are difficult to find or are no longer on the market. Even if they are right that some seats have safety issues, how can those issues be addressed by manufacturers or technicians if so little is known about CR’s tests?


Past CR car seat reports have recommended the Evenflo Titan as a “Best Buy” in May 2005. Many parents ran out to buy the Titan (a discontinued seat), but found it so difficult to adjust the harness that they ended up throwing it away. Other highly rated seats from the July 2001 issue? The Century 1000 STE and Century 2000 STE. The problem with those seats? Those convertibles only rear-faced to 22 lbs., just 2 lbs. more than infant seat weight limits at that time, the rear-facing belt path was over the child’s thighs, and the 2000 STE was a T-shield harness system instead of a 5-point harness, which is considered safest by child passenger safety technicians. The top picks from 2001, the Fisher Price Safe Embrace and Safe Embrace II, were discontinued and difficult to find. How can a reputable magazine recommend discontinued car seats or seats that are so difficult to adjust on a child that parents want to throw them away? Yes, they may test safely in a secret lab, but how safe is it if the harness is kept loose all the time because it can’t be adjusted on a daily basis? CR says in their car issues that they test drive the vehicles they rate. It gives them a good feel for how the vehicles perform in a variety of settings. Do they give car seats a trial? No. It certainly would give them a feel for how the seats perform on a daily basis. I’m positive the reviewers would form a different opinion if they had to use the seats on a regular basis for a week.


These reports never take into account important considerations like top harness slot height for forward-facing seats, bottom harness slot height for infant seats, weight limits (both lower for infant seats and upper for the higher weight harnessed seats), how easy the seat is to install, and so on. LATCH was supposed to make it easier for parents to install their car seats, but instead it has created many more problems. Built-in lockoffs have helped reduce the number of installation problems by eliminating the need for a locking clip. That wasn’t something CR overtly addressed, but it does profoundly affect safety when the seat is properly installed.


That’s not to say the magazine reports are all bad. In the past, they've found problems with car seats that have led to recalls. Perhaps they’ve found a couple this time with the Evenflo Discovery and Dorel Comfort infant seats (though technicians have complained about the Dorel Comfort infant seat since it hit the market). CR has brought attention to the need for side impact testing and has made parents aware that there’s more to car seat safety other than just sticking their child into a fabric-covered plastic shell and going along on their merry way. They’ve made public the problems with the LATCH system; that it’s not the panacea due to the lobbying of manufacturers turning rigid LATCH into the belt-type LATCH that most seats have now. Indirectly, CR has brought attention to the fact that some manufacturers do a poor job of labeling their seats. Since news of the February report was released on Thursday, January 4, I’ve received emails and have seen posts on bulletin boards from parents confused about which seat they have. The parents range from those with older toddlers in convertible seats with Eddie Bauer covers who thought they might have the Eddie Bauer Comfort seat listed in the article, to parents with Evenflo seats who had a travel system, but didn’t know which seat came with the stroller, to parents with a Graco infant seat who didn’t know which seat they had. It shouldn’t be this hard.


If you want to keep your child safe, you will keep him/her rear-facing for as long as possible. Also, your car seats are safe if

They meet current federal guidelines (that is, if you bought them new and they aren't under recall);
You install them with less than 1" of movement when you tug at the belt path (rear-facing seats will move more the further away from the belt path you get);
The harness is snug as a hug on your child;
You read the car seat instructions AND your vehicle instructions;
You keep your child rear-facing past age 1 AND 20 lbs.; the newest recommendation is to rear-face to the weight limits of the convertible seat or until your child’s head is within 1” of the top of the convertible car seat;
Your child hasn't outgrown the car seat (read the labels);
You aren't using LATCH in the middle position unless your vehicle manual specifically says you can; and
You tether any forward-facing seat.
For more help with installing your car seat, please see Installing Your Car Seat.

To see another opinion on Consumer Reports testing, please visit Car-Safety.org.
 
opinions it is. If you read the full artocle it tells you how they tested it exactly and their are photo's and video to back up how they tested their products. A lot of crashes are people going over 35 mph a lot of times they are going twice that speed.

Also, CR is one of the only companies that is not supported by the product they are testing.

Also, somehow my first link did not get in.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ats/car-seats-2-07/overview/0207_seats_ov.htm

This explains how they were tested and all the details. Not just a ratings chart.
 
CR, as explained in the 2nd post, is not respected by the scientific community because they are secretive about their testing. Not to say that the government doesn't need to up their standards a bit...but CR's report shouldn't be taken as the gospel, end-all truth to everything. Their report should be viewed as part of a whole - one piece of a large puzzle. Personally I would trust what CPST's (certified car safety techs) have to say over this, who have no financial gain in this, and put their own kids in car seats every day, than a company that is known to have political biases, and consistently sensationalizes in order to sell magazines. Just my 2cents.
 

Thanks for the reminder, but hasn't this been posted here when it happened?:confused3

Anyway, my best friend just had her baby shower, she is having triplets and she registered for one of the infant carseats that failed miserably. So, now she has to go exchange all 3! Trouble is now it is so hard to find the "good" ones. And if you look at the report, the so called "good ones" still performed poorly on a scale of 1-100, I believe they were rated in the 60's. I was just in a local infant boutique baby store and had a great convo with the owner. She had coppies of the tests that were done, she sells some of the poorly rated carseats. What I found out is that the Britax INFANT carseat that did so poorly is not the same one they have over in Europe! They make a specific one for the US market! So they keep the good one for themselves!LOL They have much stricter guidlines there. Anyway it's important to note the tests were done on infant seats and what was happening is the seat was detatching from the base in a crash. They said you were better off just using a seatbelt with the seat and not using the base! Personally I would just use a convertible carseat. The Britax I have holds from 5lbs to 65lbs! It may be expensive, I have the Boulevard that was about $300, but you have 1 seat the entire time. Also IMO, the infant seats are over rated, well not anymore, but really alot of babies aren't in them too long, and if you're like my friend with triplets, there is no tripple stroller that holds 3 carseats, so it won't work for her. I am like everyone else and keeping my kids safe is the most important thing. My advise to new parents would be to just skip the infant seat all together. I know it's more convienent to not wake a sleeping baby to move in and out of a car, but really it's worth it when it comes to your babies safety! Buy a convertible carseat!!
 
I just hate to see people panicking and replacing infant seats that are still perfectly safe. The two that CR said failed both their tests and the gvt test I would replace though (especially the Evenflo Discovery since it only has a 3pt harness. Dorel says they will replace the base for free on their "Comfort" model).

Here is a statement put out by Partners for Child Passenger Safety in regards to the Consumer Reports article. For those that are not familiar with them, PCPS is a consortium of researchers from the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. They are generally considered the top researchers on child passenger safety in this country (and they always publish their data and methodology!) and they often use the hundreds of thousands of insurance claims data from State Farm to determine exactly how car seats are performing in real world crashes. If anyone really knows how car seats are saving our children's lives, it is the folks at PCPS. Here is their input on this whole Consumer Reports issue.

This month's issue of Consumer Reports (CR) features an article questioning the performance of certain rear-facing infant car seats, particularly with respect to the use of LATCH to secure the infant seat base to the vehicle's seat. The high-severity frontal and side sled tests conducted by Consumers Union in the lab found that most car seats performed poorly in either one or both of the tests and performed worse when attached to the vehicle using LATCH than they did when attached with the vehicle's seat belt.

The Partners for Child Passenger Safety (PCPS) research team at The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia supports the need for further research into the effectiveness of LATCH to protect children of all ages. As LATCH becomes more prevalent, we will be able to conduct analyses of the effectiveness of LATCH to protect children in real-world crashes. The PCPS team further supports the development of a side impact test procedure for child restraints that accurately simulates real world crash conditions. In the meantime, it is important for parents to place findings such as those reported in CR in perspective: children riding in the correct restraint for their age and size are far safer than if they were not restrained at all, or in a restraint that is inappropriate for their age or size.

The most current data from PCPS, which is the largest available source of information on children involved in real world crashes, shows:

1. Less than one percent of crashes reported to PCPS since 1997 involved infants in rear-facing seats in side-impact crashes. Among these cases, the risk of injury was less than one-half of one percent with no evidence of a difference whether the seat was attached by LATCH or by the vehicle seat belt. It is important to note, however, that injuries sustained by these children were not necessarily caused by a child restraint that came loose, as was seen in the tests conducted by Consumer's Union.

2. Previous PCPS analyses indicate that side impact crashes generally have higher injury rates than frontal impacts for all passengers, including children restrained in child restraints. Children in forward-facing restraints in side-impact crashes showed a few common characteristics of the crashes that resulted in injury: intrusion into the child's occupant space, a frontal component of the crash (rather than a 90-degree side-impact collision); and rotation of the child restraint towards the side of impact. Many of these characteristics are challenging to simulate in a sled test like the one implemented by Consumers Union.

Submitted by Tracy Durham, Partners for Child Passenger Safety
and another great source of info:
http://www.car-seat.org/forumdisplay.php?f=13
 
DESNIK - Just wanted to let you know there is a triplet stroller frame that will hold three graco snugrides and some other models. You said there weren't any so I just wanted to make sure your friend knew that there was!!!

Andrea
 
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Thank you so much! I will pass that info along to her! We were both looking and couldn't find anything and she told me there was no such thing! Actually I can't even imagine trying to go out with infant triplets!!LOL
 
Thanks for the reminder, but hasn't this been posted here when it happened?:confused3

Anyway, my best friend just had her baby shower, she is having triplets and she registered for one of the infant carseats that failed miserably. So, now she has to go exchange all 3! Trouble is now it is so hard to find the "good" ones. And if you look at the report, the so called "good ones" still performed poorly on a scale of 1-100, I believe they were rated in the 60's. I was just in a local infant boutique baby store and had a great convo with the owner. She had coppies of the tests that were done, she sells some of the poorly rated carseats. What I found out is that the Britax INFANT carseat that did so poorly is not the same one they have over in Europe! They make a specific one for the US market! So they keep the good one for themselves!LOL They have much stricter guidlines there. Anyway it's important to note the tests were done on infant seats and what was happening is the seat was detatching from the base in a crash. They said you were better off just using a seatbelt with the seat and not using the base! Personally I would just use a convertible carseat. The Britax I have holds from 5lbs to 65lbs! It may be expensive, I have the Boulevard that was about $300, but you have 1 seat the entire time. Also IMO, the infant seats are over rated, well not anymore, but really alot of babies aren't in them too long, and if you're like my friend with triplets, there is no tripple stroller that holds 3 carseats, so it won't work for her. I am like everyone else and keeping my kids safe is the most important thing. My advise to new parents would be to just skip the infant seat all together. I know it's more convienent to not wake a sleeping baby to move in and out of a car, but really it's worth it when it comes to your babies safety! Buy a convertible carseat!!



I wish we had stricter guidelines but I can believe that they do! Have you seen they way they drive over there!:scared1: And the cars are like shoeboxes. I was scared the entire time:eek: .
 
What I found out is that the Britax INFANT carseat that did so poorly is not the same one they have over in Europe! They make a specific one for the US market! So they keep the good one for themselves!LOL

Oh, yes, I read somewhere that Britax did sell that infant seat here for a while, but it cost about $400 so no one would buy it. Can you imagine?! And people think the MA/DC/BV seats cost a lot! At least those will last until a kid is ready for a BPB.
 
Thank you so much! I will pass that info along to her! We were both looking and couldn't find anything and she told me there was no such thing! Actually I can't even imagine trying to go out with infant triplets!!LOL


No problem!! They aren't cheap but sometimes you will have to go out and I guess it would come in mighty handy unless she's able to have one or two people go with her everywhere!! I can't imagine!


Andrea

Here is the link and it's on sale!! You pick whether you want it for Evenflo or Graco car seats!

http://www.netkidswear.com/tripledecker.html
 
I want to add a couple thoughts on infant seats. I have read that they are very hard on your back and other joints - expecially for new moms who's joints are "loose" postpartum. I hope that makes sense. You can damage your body hauling those heavy seats around town all the time.

Also, personally I like the contact with the baby you get from using a sling or front carrier, rather that the seperation of an infant seat. My experience was that I purchased 3, yes 3 infant seats and found none that would fit securely in my older Subaru because of a weird seat belt path. I had no choice other than to use a convertable seat and while at first I thought it was a huge inconvenience, in the end I loved it! If she was asleep in the car, even though she woke up transfering to the Bjorn, she would fall asleep again right away. I used a Bjorn carrier everywhere we went, using the Bjorn I had 2 free hands. I din't have to worry about the seat being secure in shopping carts either, there are LOTS of injuries from infant seats falling out of shopping carts. DD is 18 months and she is still comfortably rear facing in her Britax Roundabout. The Roundabout is small so it fits rearfacing in most vehicles - where larger convertables don't fit rear facing. It was a very good investment.

One more comment about infant seats in general. Vs. a convertable seat - with an infant seat there is one more operation where you can make a mistake. Both types of seats are secured into the vehicle, both the baby is secured into the seat, but for the infant seat - you also have to make sure the seat is properly secured into the base. And of course then there is the issue of the weight limit. I see parents strapping very large babies into infant carriers all the time - babies that are obvioulsy over both the height AND weight limits.

I'm a mom of 2 and the observations are just that, I have no professional qualifications of any kind - other than owning a weird car and struggling with secure child safety seat installation!
 
Also, personally I like the contact with the baby you get from using a sling or front carrier, rather that the seperation of an infant seat.

While I absolutley loved using my Baby Bjorn, it simply was not always practical. If the baby was fast asleep in the carrier, why risk waking a slumbering infant just to transfer him/her into the front pack? Also, I found that for grocery shopping, using a front pack was often difficult if I had a lot of items that I needed from lower shelves. Keeping the baby in the carrier on the shopping cart was safer and I loved being able to see and talk to them while cruising the aisles. And, we often kept the baby in the carrier when we went out to eat. (Our first chil outgrew the infant seat by 4 months, but we kept it in the car to use when grocery shopping and dining out. While it wasn't safe to use to transport him in the car, it was still perfectly fine for use as a carrier!)

So, I think it does make sense for parents to find a good one, even if they end up buying a different one later on.
 
While I absolutley loved using my Baby Bjorn, it simply was not always practical. If the baby was fast asleep in the carrier, why risk waking a slumbering infant just to transfer him/her into the front pack? Also, I found that for grocery shopping, using a front pack was often difficult if I had a lot of items that I needed from lower shelves. Keeping the baby in the carrier on the shopping cart was safer and I loved being able to see and talk to them while cruising the aisles. And, we often kept the baby in the carrier when we went out to eat. (Our first chil outgrew the infant seat by 4 months, but we kept it in the car to use when grocery shopping and dining out. While it wasn't safe to use to transport him in the car, it was still perfectly fine for use as a carrier!)

So, I think it does make sense for parents to find a good one, even if they end up buying a different one later on.


My son hated the carriers. Not every kid likes them. He much preferred his infant car seat.
 
I do agree that infant seats are handy and I know that many babies do love them. I am saying that it IS possible to live without them. I think they first came out about 1990 - and everyone lived without them before that.

(I hate to admit that it never occured to me that I could keep an infant seat in the car just to use in resturaunts. I could have used that tip about 18 months ago! LOL!)
 
I think the triple stroller frame and Graco Snug Rides would be great for triplets. She will have to at least take them to Dr. appts, and it would be great for her to be able to take walks and not be cooped up in the house all the time. Obviously, a carrier or sling isn't an option in this case since she's got 3 to carry around, and since they'll be small, they'll probably fit in the infant seats right up to their first birthday.

I work in a hospital nursery, and we offer our patients a Graco Snugride for $20. It doesn't have the canopy or head support, but it's still the same model seat. The only downside to them is the straps are a pain in the neck to adjust. It's a blessing to a lot of families to be able to afford a good infant seat. Our Auxilliary pays the portion that the family doesn't. You might want to have her check with her local hospital and see if they have a similar program.

Also, if the babies are under 5 pounds, they'll have to go home in car beds. Those should be available for sale or rent through the hospital also.
 
Thanks for all the advice for my friend!!!:goodvibes
She called me last night stressing about all of this. Now it seems the 2007 model of the triple stroller by Peg Perego has the ability to hold 3 infant car seats! So, does she just get the infant car seats even though they tested poorly? Plus the price is crazy at $1000!! I had the Peg Perrego infant car seat and loved it for DS. He was a premie so he was in in till 1 years old. The thing is my friend is 29 weeks along and her babies are big! One is 3lbs, the other 3lbs 3oz, and the other 3lbs 13 oz!!! So she thinks they will be big and will probably be in the infant car seat for a short time. Her DS was big and was in the infant seat for 5 months tops! It's just with Drs appt. and such it would be easier to just bring them in in their infant seats. She doesn't imagine ever going out alone the first year!LOL

Had this test never been done, noone would bat an eye about the infant car seats. Never would I think they would be this unsafe?:confused3
Also don't you all feel that the type of car, how the seat fits in your car, and if it is installed properly pays a huge part in how safe any car seat can be? My kids and DH and I were all in a horrific car accident in 2005. Our SUV flipped numerous times. DS was in a cheap convertible car seat. He was 2.5 at the time. I think it was a Cosco brand, not too sure. The point is when we landed we landed on my drivers side, DS was behind the passenger seat so he has like hanging in the air sideways. The point is that that car seat fit my car well, the SUV handled the impact and roll over well, keeping us safe inside, and my car seat was installed properly. It also had a 5 point harnes that held him in the seat very well. The state troopers told me that it saved his life. Had it not been installed properly it would've been bad. He said he had seen countless accidents where the parents had "safe" car seats that were not installed properly and it ended badly.
 
Also don't you all feel that the type of car, how the seat fits in your car, and if it is installed properly pays a huge part in how safe any car seat can be?

Of course it does. The most failsafe seat in the universe is well-nigh useless if you don't have it installed properly and don't have the child strapped in properly.

I have to say that when DS was born we were gifted with an infant carseat that had a base, so we initially used it with the base. That lasted less than a month, because I just didn't trust the snap-in latch, as it was quite finicky and needed a LOT of pressure to click in just right. We ditched the base and started installing it using the seatbelt and a locking clip, which to me felt a lot more secure with that particular seat in our vehicles. (We also kept it in the trunk for restaurant use after it was outgrown. DS outgrew it at least two months before he could sit up unaided.)
 
Also don't you all feel that the type of car, how the seat fits in your car, and if it is installed properly pays a huge part in how safe any car seat can be?

Absolutely! It is the biggest part of how well a seat performs in a crash, IMO. An improperly installed seat isn't going to preform to the standard it was designed for so there is no telling if it will work or not. That is one of the problems with the CR report - They don't share their data, we don't know who is installing the seats - are they CPST's or trained in any way at all to know how to do it properly? There are just so many questions and they really, really need to speak up and defend themselves, because all this secrecy just casts doubt upon themselves.

Also, this was posted on the bbc car safety forum the other day:
Consumer Reports did a good job of scaring the bejeezits out of parents and parents-to-be this past week with their super crash testing of infant car seats. They claim that federal crash test guidelines aren't good enough, yet won't release their own testing methods or even where they ran the tests.

Here's more information on the US crash tests, straight from an engineer and child passenger safety instructor at the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute (UMTRI):

Researchers at UMTRI analyzed 5 years of crash data from the National Automotive Sampling System (NASS). The vehicles catalogued in NASS are tow-away only; they aren't concerned with vehicles that crash that can be driven away. Researchers looked at only the frontal crash data, which includes delta Vs (called change in velocity for those of us who aren't engineering whizzes) and estimated barrier speeds. I'm going to quote here what an estimated barrier speed is: "The estimated barrier speed is a measure of how fast the vehicle would have to be going when it hits an immovable barrier to produce a similar crash to the one seen in the field." They also studied the vehicle entirely.

What they learned is that the 30 mph crash used to test car seats is more severe than 97.6% of the frontal crashes in the NASS database. Remember, these are tow-away vehicles only--many more vehicles have been in crashes that were able to be driven away, so the percentage is probably higher but we don't know by how much because nobody is keeping track of the drive-away vehicles.

Trust me, I'm pretty critical of the government. I think we can and must have a side impact crash test standard. I think the frontal crash test is a good one. I know and trust the experts telling me that it is.



Heather, CPS Tech/Instr.
Host, BC Car Safety Tips bb

Thought that was interesting little tidbit of info!
 














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