If I buy resale, can we use those points to travel anywhere besides Disney?

[Fall1]

If we buy a BCV resale contract, can we use those points to travel other places besides Disney DVC resorts? I'm confused by the new travel restrictions if you buy a resale contract!
Thanks!!

 

[Brian Noble]

You can use them in RCI and, I believe, Club Interwest.

However, you probably shouldn't. It's not a particularly good value to use points for ANYTHING other than DVC lodging. If you think you will go to DVC regularly throughout the years, try to buy only what you'll need for DVC. If you think DVC will be a more short-term thing, you are probably better off renting.

 

[luckyman_apd]

You can use them in RCI and, I believe, Club Interwest.

However, you probably shouldn't. It's not a particularly good value to use points for ANYTHING other than DVC lodging. If you think you will go to DVC regularly throughout the years, try to buy only what you'll need for DVC. If you think DVC will be a more short-term thing, you are probably better off renting.

Exactly. Everything I've read (over a year of researching) using DVC points for anything other than a DVC resort is wasted value. Trying to compare if a DVC member is "worth it" is such a case by case scenario, that it's really hard to do the math. We are still considering a purchase but we will ONLY go resale at this point. You should really take some time and look into how often you want to travel to Disney, and what you're lodging needs will be. If you want to go every other year, and you want a 1 bedroom room everytime, and you stay for a week on average, you will need anywhere from 220 to 270 points for that trip in the Dream season (most expensive time other than holidays) For that you would need between 120 to 150 points annually, so the bank and borrow system can work for you. If you stay in a studio you will need far less points, or if you can travel in the less busy months you will use less points.

So, in short, there are many options, but it's best to plan what you THINK you may use before purchasing. Once you buy, you will be locked into Disney trips. Remember the added cost of travel and tickets for each trip. If you buy too many points, you may spend more money that if you planned when you buy in. Disney only sells 160 point min. to start. They sell 50 to 100 point add ons to current members, and you can buy one resale. That is probably what I will buy if we decide to buy. Relatively low buy in price ($6,000 to $10,000 for 100 points at SSR or BLT). And the ability to add on later if the points are not enough. A week rental in the Magic season in a studio ranges from just under 100 points to 115 or so. This way if we go every year, we can stay in a studio, or sometimes we can go in November for 5 days using around 76 points. That way we can bank the extra and the next year we can borrow and have enough for a 1 bedroom. We can hit the boards and rent if we are 20-30 points shy, and we also know two friends with DVC memberships we can always rent a few extra points from. We learned from them, as they have extra points every year. If they could go back, they would definitely buy less points.

 

[RobDoc]

If we buy a BCV resale contract, can we use those points to travel other places besides Disney DVC resorts? I'm confused by the new travel restrictions if you buy a resale contract!
Thanks!!

Resale purchases after 3/21/11 can no longer be used for the Disney Collection (other Disney resorts, Disney Cruise Line), Adventurers Collection or Concierge Collection.

World Passport Collection (RCI exchanges) and Club Interwest are the only current options besides all DVC resorts. As already suggested, if you are interested in regular trades outside of DVC resorts, you may find a DVC purchase an expensive way to manage those trades. If you will primarily use DVC points at DVC resorts and venture outside of DVC upon occasion, using DVC points cab be a convenient option.

 

[JimMIA]

For anyone trying to value the non-Disney options -- whether for a resale purchase or direct -- I think it's important to understand that DVC's "World Passport Collection" is nothing like a full RCI membership. In fact, you're not an RCI member at all.

DVC owners have no direct access to RCI, not even to check availability. All RCI transactions have to be done through DVC MS by telephone. DVC members have access to only about 600 of the more than 4,000 RCI resorts. And since you don't have your own RCI account, you are excluded from many important RCI benefits like Last Calls and Extra Vacations (deeply discounted cash options). One of our regular posters here recently got a full week in a 2 bedroom deluxe at Wyndham Bonnet Creek at WDW for less than $500 with an RCI Extra Vacation.

As Brian said above, using your points outside DVC is not the most cost-effective use of points. And that's not just true of DVC; that's pretty much true for any timeshare system. The best use of ANY system is almost always within that system...not outside that system.

The other thing to understand is that none of this non-DVC stuff is guaranteed to ANY purchaser. It can be taken away from direct purchasers and resale purchasers at any time with a swipe of the Mouse's pen.

 

[acder12]

I just returned from a week at WDW and still have a nagging question about resale and exchanges. I spoke to several DVC kiosk workers (not guides I understand but still DVC staff) and did not get any satisfactory answers. Since DVC has added this exchange restriction for re-sale contracts, why is there not more outrage from the Members at large who have a significant hurdle to overcome in selling their points yet DVC offers no alternative? In my opinion, DVC should have a process to purchase my points outright since they have imposed a restriction that reduces the value of my points. I understand the ROFR but the DVC imposed travel restriction decreases the value of my points on the open market and gives DVC the benefit of taking those points from a willing buyer at the now reduced rate.

Why not add the restriction of "re-sale contracts can't be used for stays on Tuesday nights"? That would drive down the value as well. What benefit was gained or what problem was averted because this travel restriction was put in place?

I know I don't have a choice in the matter but this remains a significant issue for me.

Chris

 

[JimMIA]

I just returned from a week at WDW and still have a nagging question about resale and exchanges. I spoke to several DVC kiosk workers (not guides I understand but still DVC staff) and did not get any satisfactory answers. Since DVC has added this exchange restriction for re-sale contracts, why is there not more outrage from the Members at large who have a significant hurdle to overcome in selling their points yet DVC offers no alternative? In my opinion, DVC should have a process to purchase my points outright since they have imposed a restriction that reduces the value of my points. I understand the ROFR but the DVC imposed travel restriction decreases the value of my points on the open market and gives DVC the benefit of taking those points from a willing buyer at the now reduced rate.

Why not add the restriction of "re-sale contracts can't be used for stays on Tuesday nights"? That would drive down the value as well. What benefit was gained or what problem was averted because this travel restriction was put in place?

I know I don't have a choice in the matter but this remains a significant issue for me.

Chris

They didn't diminish your resale value. The ability to pass those dubious "benefits" along to a purchaser of your points down the road was never guaranteed. Nor was ANY resale value -- high or low.

 

[Brian Noble]

In my opinion, DVC should have a process to purchase my points outright since they have imposed a restriction that reduces the value of my points.

When last I checked, they will buy them back---at a significant discount even to the resale market, such as it is.

However, Jim is right. A rational purchaser already knew that the Disney Collection was smoke and mirrors. Resale values have dropped because the number of sellers is steadily increasing, faster than the number of willing buyers.

 

[luckyman_apd]

When last I checked, they will buy them back---at a significant discount even to the resale market, such as it is.

However, Jim is right. A rational purchaser already knew that the Disney Collection was smoke and mirrors. Resale values have dropped because the number of sellers is steadily increasing, faster than the number of willing buyers.

Correct. Simple supply and demand economics. If resale volume bites into Disney's sales, it's only business that they intervene to protect their own interests....ethical or not. It's capitalism.

Something I just want to be sure of though....If I were to buy a resale tomorrow, can they impose restrictions on me in the future as a resale buyer? I mean restrictions only to resales and not everyone? Or am I guaranteed what is in place now after the recent changes?

 

[wdrl]

Something I just want to be sure of though....If I were to buy a resale tomorrow, can they impose restrictions on me in the future as a resale buyer? I mean restrictions only to resales and not everyone? Or am I guaranteed what is in place now after the recent changes?

The following paragraph is from the Home Resort Rules and Regulations, Section V., Member Benefits and Privileges:

Club Member Benefit Programs. From time to time, Disney Vacation Development, Inc., Buena Vista Trading Company, DVC Operator or their affiliates may establish special Club Member benefit programs to enhance membership for Club Members. Participation in any Club Member benefit program is completely voluntary. These special programs are not a component of any Ownership Interest or Additional Ownership Interest. Some or all Club Member benefit programs may be limited, modified, canceled or terminated at any time. In addition, some or all of Club Member benefit programs may be offered solely with respect to Ownership Interest purchased and owned by Club Members who purchased the Ownership Interest directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. and certain of these special programs, including those benefits marketed as Incidental Benefits under Section 721.075, Florida Statutes, may not be hypothecated, bought, sold, exchanged, rented or otherwise transferred, except upon written approval of Disney Vacation Development, Inc., and are solely for the original Club Member’s benefit and not for the benefit of that Club Member’s assigns or successors-in-interest. If a Club Member sells his/her Ownership Interest, these benefit programs do not automatically transfer to his/her buyer. The availability of these benefit programs may or may not be renewed or extended to such assigns or successors-in interest. (emphasis added)
​

It seems to me that DVC Members are forewarned that access to exchange privileges is just that: A privilege and not a right.

 

[luckyman_apd]

The following paragraph is from the Home Resort Rules and Regulations, Section V., Member Benefits and Privileges:

Club Member Benefit Programs. From time to time, Disney Vacation Development, Inc., Buena Vista Trading Company, DVC Operator or their affiliates may establish special Club Member benefit programs to enhance membership for Club Members. Participation in any Club Member benefit program is completely voluntary. These special programs are not a component of any Ownership Interest or Additional Ownership Interest. Some or all Club Member benefit programs may be limited, modified, canceled or terminated at any time. In addition, some or all of Club Member benefit programs may be offered solely with respect to Ownership Interest purchased and owned by Club Members who purchased the Ownership Interest directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. and certain of these special programs, including those benefits marketed as Incidental Benefits under Section 721.075, Florida Statutes, may not be hypothecated, bought, sold, exchanged, rented or otherwise transferred, except upon written approval of Disney Vacation Development, Inc., and are solely for the original Club Member’s benefit and not for the benefit of that Club Member’s assigns or successors-in-interest. If a Club Member sells his/her Ownership Interest, these benefit programs do not automatically transfer to his/her buyer. The availability of these benefit programs may or may not be renewed or extended to such assigns or successors-in interest. (emphasis added)
​

It seems to me that DVC Members are forewarned that access to exchange privileges is just that: A privilege and not a right.

I understand that, and I don't think I would ever use points for anything but a DVC resort. I'd rather rent the points and use the cash, as that would go farther than the points. I guest what I'm asking is that if I buy a resale, I will get all the benefits and rights in the DVC resorts as any other member in the DVC without them changing it on me in the future. I feel this is the case, but I just want to be clear.

 

[Sammie]

I understand that, and I don't think I would ever use points for anything but a DVC resort. I'd rather rent the points and use the cash, as that would go farther than the points. I guest what I'm asking is that if I buy a resale, I will get all the benefits and rights in the DVC resorts as any other member in the DVC without them changing it on me in the future. I feel this is the case, but I just want to be clear.

Not necessarily, all we are guaranteed is a one month booking advantage at our home resort.

I would hope that any major changes would grandfather in existing members but I don't know that for sure.

Honestly there is probably a lot they can do, that most of us are not aware of.

 

[chalee94]

whether you buy through resale or direct, disney has the right to change most everything except the right to book at the resort you purchased an interest in. that should be really clear.

while resale prices are dropping due to fewer relative buyers, part of that is probably due to some potential resale buyers dropping out without doing their research once they hear a guide say that resale buyers are not "full members." if you decide to sell, make no mistake: DVC direct sales is competing with you for buyers...don't imagine for a second that they are on your side...

 

[JimMIA]

Something I just want to be sure of though....If I were to buy a resale tomorrow, can they impose restrictions on me in the future as a resale buyer? I mean restrictions only to resales and not everyone? Or am I guaranteed what is in place now after the recent changes?

It doesn't really matter whether you buy direct or resale -- Disney can change just about any aspect of your ownership. They are always tinkering with the "perks" ...sometimes significantly, sometimes not; sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.

About the only things they can't change are your right to book at your home resort, and a minimum of a one-month booking advantage at your home resort as long as they allow the use of points at non-home resorts.

 

[JimMIA]

If resale volume bites into Disney's sales, it's only business that they intervene to protect their own interests....ethical or not. It's capitalism.

I don't know how anyone could stretch ROFR into an ethical/unethical discussion. It's quite clearly disclosed in all the documentation and it's common practice in the timeshare industry.

Just because we don't like something doesn't make it "unethical."

 

[wdrl]

I understand that, and I don't think I would ever use points for anything but a DVC resort. I'd rather rent the points and use the cash, as that would go farther than the points. I guest what I'm asking is that if I buy a resale, I will get all the benefits and rights in the DVC resorts as any other member in the DVC without them changing it on me in the future. I feel this is the case, but I just want to be clear.

If you read the section I quoted from the Home Resort Rules and Regulations, I think you will conclude that DVD is under no obligation to grandfather any privileges. Its possible they may say that anyone who bought resale may no longer have access to exchanges or other privileges that are offered to Members who bought direct from DVD.

Although its possible that, in the future, existing resale owners may have some perks and privileges that they currently have taken away from them, I personally doubt that DVD would do it. However, that is just my personal opinion and is not based on anything in the Public Offering Statements or Master Declarations.

 

[Dean]

I just returned from a week at WDW and still have a nagging question about resale and exchanges. I spoke to several DVC kiosk workers (not guides I understand but still DVC staff) and did not get any satisfactory answers. Since DVC has added this exchange restriction for re-sale contracts, why is there not more outrage from the Members at large who have a significant hurdle to overcome in selling their points yet DVC offers no alternative? In my opinion, DVC should have a process to purchase my points outright since they have imposed a restriction that reduces the value of my points. I understand the ROFR but the DVC imposed travel restriction decreases the value of my points on the open market and gives DVC the benefit of taking those points from a willing buyer at the now reduced rate.

Why not add the restriction of "re-sale contracts can't be used for stays on Tuesday nights"? That would drive down the value as well. What benefit was gained or what problem was averted because this travel restriction was put in place?

I know I don't have a choice in the matter but this remains a significant issue for me.

Chris

The ASA's have no information, they're often pretty sketchy even on the regular and usual info. Their job it to get you in the Van to tour.

I understand that, and I don't think I would ever use points for anything but a DVC resort. I'd rather rent the points and use the cash, as that would go farther than the points. I guest what I'm asking is that if I buy a resale, I will get all the benefits and rights in the DVC resorts as any other member in the DVC without them changing it on me in the future. I feel this is the case, but I just want to be clear.

Realize that DVD not only has NO responsibility in protecting your investment from a sales standpoint, they are in direct competition with you. As for changes, I'm split. As I read the POS I don't come up with a lot they can do to differentiate between the 2 groups on direct DVC usage. Having said that, at least 2 other FL based timeshares have retroactively made changes to favor VIP members that bought direct and own more. However, I think it's reasonable to assume that for DVC, RCI & BVTC, any changes will affect all members equally. Still, there are a lot of things they could change over the years in a negative way, assume that most changes will be neg.

 

[suzysharp]

We debated back and forth on buying BWV from resale or DVC and we were conviced to buy from DVC for 3 reasons. We can use the points anywhere, we could close almost immediately with no worry of back dues, extra closing fees or any other delay and the last and most important that DVC got us the reservation we wanted at BWV from Dec 31-Jan 8th that we couldn't get otherwise. Its amazing that Mickey can help get reservations when you buy a new contract... thanks Mickey... Just something to consider

 

[disneynutz]

We debated back and forth on buying BWV from resale or DVC and we were conviced to buy from DVC for 3 reasons. We can use the points anywhere, we could close almost immediately with no worry of back dues, extra closing fees or any other delay and the last and most important that DVC got us the reservation we wanted at BWV from Dec 31-Jan 8th that we couldn't get otherwise. Its amazing that Mickey can help get reservations when you buy a new contract... thanks Mickey... Just something to consider

I guess it all depends on what value you place on your 3 items. For us, 40 years of ownership will be more than enough time to see all of WDW so we aren't in a rush to get our points or book a reservation. There isn't a guarantee that you will be able to use the points anywhere and most of all, the thousands saved can buy extra points, pay for dues, or can be used to pay for a extra vacation.

Bill

 

[GrnMtnMan]

we could close almost immediately with no worry of back dues, extra closing fees

Using a title transfer company makes these issue moot as they would be on the hook for transferring title that was not fully within the boundaries of the contract.

Its amazing that Mickey can help get reservations when you buy a new contract... thanks Mickey... Just something to consider

This is because by buying direct, you are buying inventory that previously belonged to Disney....they're happy to get it off their hands and have you pay the dues...and they also don't have to worry about renting it out as hotel room.