Ideas to Solve FP+ issues

[JimmyV]

Do away with the tiers: I was able to take advantage of the "glitch" that happened in the MDE system that took away the tiering for my trip so was able to FP all headliners at HS and EP. This worked out great for our family.

I really don't think they can do this. (And I am no FP+ apologist). You took advantage of a glitch that probably 1/100th of 1% knew about. But if what Disney is telling us is correct and 90% of guests are taking advantage of FP+, and there were no tiering, then 90% of all Epcot guests would want a FP+ for both Soarin' and Teat Track. (OK, let's scale it back to 50% to account for height restrictions, thrill ride avoiders and people who might only want to ride one but not both rides) If Epcot gets 60,000 people on a busy day, then 30,000 would want a FP+ for both rides and another 5,000-10,000 might want a FP+ for one, but not other. That's 35,000-40,000 FP+ for each ride as opposed to 15,000* or so people getting a tiered FP+ for one or the other. Neither ride can accomodate 35,000 FP+ in a day. So FP+ will run out at whatever the limit is and run out well in advance of the day in question. Pretty soon, people will be up at midnight on their 60th day out booking their FP+s, and people who book later than that will miss out, or get undesireable times, and off site guests (who paid just as much for their admission tix) would get nothing. One of the reasons behind FP+ is to avoid the "I can't get a FP for TSM because my family doesn't do Rope Drop" complaints. All you would be doing by eliminating tiering would be to substitute "pre-book 50-60 days in advance" for "do Rope Drop". FP+ is supposed to take the advantage away from super-users and super-planners. Eliminate tiering and FPs will be harder to get, and the super-planners will be back on top. You may view this as a positive, but that is not a way to "fix" a problem with FP+ because Disney most assuredly does not view this as a problem that needs fixing.

*A chart that bcrook put together places the number of FP+ available for these rides at around 9,000-12,000. So my numbers (wild guesses) are a bit high, but it further establishes that Disney can never "untier" these two rides. The first 10,000 pigs to the trough would occupy the field for the two most popular rides. Now, it would take 20,000 pigs to get to the trough to blow through all the FP+s. We aren't there yet, but summer is approaching. As long as Epcot remains "two headliners and everything else", then they will have to be separated or else pre-booking will sell these rides out like they are Springsteen tickets.

 

[bcrook]

I really don't think they can do this. (And I am no FP+ apologist). You took advantage of a glitch that probably 1/100th of 1% knew about. But if what Disney is telling us is correct and 90% of guests are taking advantage of FP+, and there were no tiering, then 90% of all Epcot guests would want a FP+ for both Soarin' and Teat Track. (OK, let's scale it back to 50% to account for height restrictions, thrill ride avoiders and people who might only want to ride one but not both rides) If Epcot gets 60,000 people on a busy day, then 30,000 would want a FP+ for both rides and another 5,000-10,000 might want a FP+ for one, but not other. That's 35,000-40,000 FP+ for each ride as opposed to 15,000* or so people getting a tiered FP+ for one or the other. Neither ride can accomodate 35,000 FP+ in a day. So FP+ will run out at whatever the limit is and run out well in advance of the day in question. Pretty soon, people will be up at midnight on their 60th day out booking their FP+s, and people who book later than that will miss out, or get undesireable times, and off site guests (who paid just as much for their admission tix) would get nothing. One of the reasons behind FP+ is to avoid the "I can't get a FP for TSM because my family doesn't do Rope Drop" complaints. All you would be doing by eliminating tiering would be to substitute "pre-book 50-60 days in advance" for "do Rope Drop". FP+ is supposed to take the advantage away from super-users and super-planners. Eliminate tiering and FPs will be harder to get, and the super-planners will be back on top. You may view this as a positive, but that is not a way to "fix" a problem with FP+ because Disney most assuredly does not view this as a problem that needs fixing.

*A chart that bcrook put together places the number of FP+ available for theser rides at around 9,000-12,000. So my numbers (willd guesses) are a bit high, but it further establishes that Disney can never "untier" these to rides. The first 10,000 pigs to the trough would occupy the field for the two most popular rides. Now, it would take 20,000 pigs to get to the trough to blow through all the FP+s. We aren't there yet, but summer is approaching.

Epcot is about 5 high-capacity rides short of being able to offer no tiers.

With no shutdowns, delays, or problems and with full loads for 12 hours. Soarin and TT combined can accommodate about 30,000 with about 21,000 going towards FP (possibly 24,000) [12 hours of Test Track with no delays is a wishful thinking though].

With Tiers only 21000 get ONE of either TT or Soarin. 50% of population gets something. 12,000 Soarin - 9,000 TT.

With no Tiers only about 9000 people would get both, or with an additional 3000 getting only Soarin. On a busy day Epcot might have 45,000 so that is about 20%-25% of the people will be satisfied. That is not as good as 50%.

Epcot needs more rides. But nothing even seems to be looming in the future.

But Disney did promise FP+ usage at the counter service restaurants. So that will be something for us to all talk about in the future how the FP+ line for food is out in the middle of the walk ways, and the standby line for CS is not moving.

 

[JimmyV]

Epcot is about 5 high-capacity rides short of being able to offer no tiers.

With no shutdowns, delays, or problems and with full loads for 12 hours. Soarin and TT combined can accommodate about 30,000 with about 21,000 going towards FP (possibly 24,000) [12 hours of Test Track with no delays is a wishful thinking though].

With Tiers only 21000 get ONE of either TT or Soarin. 50% of population gets something. 12,000 Soarin - 9,000 TT.

With no Tiers only about 9000 people would get both, or with an additional 3000 getting only Soarin. On a busy day Epcot might have 45,000 so that is about 20%-25% of the people get be satisfied. That is not as good as 50%.

Epcot needs more rides. But nothing even seems to be looming in the future.

But Disney did promise FP+ usage at the counter service restaurants. So that will be something for us to all talk about in the future how the FP+ line for food is out in the middle of the walk ways, and the standby line for CS is not moving.

Thanks for shoring up the math. Like it or not, tiering is not going away. So for now, it is FP+ one and Rope Drop the other.

Oh. And I'd take a FP+ for counter service at just about any Epcot restauant over a FP+ for Captain EO.

 

[bcrook]

Thanks for shoring up the math. Like it or not, tiering is not going away. So for now, it is FP+ one and Rope Drop the other.

Oh. And I'd take a FP+ for counter service at just about any Epcot restauant over a FP+ for Captain EO.

Me too. Or living with the land. Would the incentive of using a FP+ for lunch or dinner convince people to burn their three passes in Epcot? Tier 1, Lunch, and ???. Is that a good day there?

 

[JimmyV]

Me too. Or living with the land.

Hey! I resemble that remark! We actually used our "throw away" FP+ for Living With The Land. My wife (the gardener) likes the ride so we were going to do it. So we booked it back to back with Soarin' and did Soarin in the last 10 minutes of our window and LWTL in the first 15 minutes of its window. What else were we going to do with it? We felt so stupid as we passed exactly ZERO people in line and had a boat to ourselves. Yep. Gotta love the new system!

 

[bcrook]

Hey! I resemble that remark! We actually used our "throw away" FP+ for Living With The Land. My wife (the gardener) likes the ride so we were going to do it. So we booked it back to back with Soarin' and did Soarin in the last 10 minutes of our window and LWTL in the first 15 minutes of its window. What else were we going to do with it? We felt so stupid as we passed exactly ZERO people in line and had a boat to ourselves. Yep. Gotta love the new system!

In October, my daughter and I walked up to a completely empty ride in the middle of the day. We were getting ready to enter Standby when a family of four wound their way in through the chains and scanned their magic bands for their fastpass+. We felt a little sorry for them, so we waited until they were all clear and entered the boat. It was the least we could do.

It wasn't really funny. We felt bad for the situation. It was awkward.

I got to experience the same thing myself. We bolted from Epcot with 1 hour to spare to get to MK to use our Under the Sea FP+ Ride Reservation. At this point it was like you - let's just do it. After barely making it there on time, the entire ride was empty. Nobody in Standby and no body in the FP+ queue. Not a soul. I felt silly using my FP. It was right before the parade.

 

[lroger01]

My suggestion is to make FP+ work the same as the dining plan for onsite guests.

Give me at least 3 FP+s for each night of my vacation. I can then use those however I want during the course of my trip.

This plan lets me use my passes in the way that works for me. If I have a kid that is obsessed with Buzz Lightyear, then he can ride that all he wants. Or, I can choose to use 6 at MK and zero at Animal Kingdom. Or, 1 each day except the last and use the rest for a massive ride-a-thon on the last day.

Since no one would use them the same way pressure on the attractions should be dispersed enough. Since some parks like Epcot don't need 3, it will free up some passes for MK or a second ride on TSM. Some limits might still be needed on holidays though. If that is still too much stress on the attractions, another option would be to have some (such as TSM) be "signature" attractions and require two FP+'s.

This idea would work with the current infrastructure, and being similar to the dining plan would be easy enough to explain. I'm not sure how to handle off-site guests other than keep it to 3 per day scheduled day of through MDE as soon as the ticket is scanned at the entrance.

 

[mks2774]

I know this question had been probably answered a few 100 times, but usually I come in in the middle of posts lol. I know there has been a lot of talk about FP. I know if you stay on property you are allowed 3 passes per day. No matter which park you go to?

 

[KatieCharlotte]

Thanks for the math that supports my assumptions about tiers. I don't think they can go away unless Epcot and DHS get more headliners to spread the crowds, or FP+ changes to allow only one prebooked FP+ for all guests. This idea has already been proposed by disboarders. Additional FP+ could be booked day-of, one every so many hours. MDE would tell you how long until you could book another, just like the old FP tickets. That way, whatever extra capacity happened to be left over for rides like Test Track could be used. On a lower crowd day, there would still be a chance to have TT and Soarin, or to get RnRc after you prebooked TSMM.
That system would encourage people to "lock-in" their days and book longer stays, just like Disney wants. It would let late sleepers still get TSMM. It would make the number of FP+ you could get flexible based on park and crowds. It would facilitate allowing FP+ at multiple parks and multiple times on the same ride. It would open up more day-of flexibility for unpredictable kids and unpredictable weather. And it would allow people who spent longer days at the parks and were more motivated to get more FP+ to have more FP+. Plus, still no running from FP machine to FP machine. Central kiosks for those of us without smartphones, but also FP+ booking through MDE for onsite and offsite guests. Those of us who hate being glued to i-devices have already lost that battle anyway.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

In October, my daughter and I walked up to a completely empty ride in the middle of the day. We were getting ready to enter Standby when a family of four wound their way in through the chains and scanned their magic bands for their fastpass+. We felt a little sorry for them, so we waited until they were all clear and entered the boat. It was the least we could do.

It wasn't really funny. We felt bad for the situation. It was awkward.

I got to experience the same thing myself. We bolted from Epcot with 1 hour to spare to get to MK to use our Under the Sea FP+ Ride Reservation. At this point it was like you - let's just do it. After barely making it there on time, the entire ride was empty. Nobody in Standby and no body in the FP+ queue. Not a soul. I felt silly using my FP. It was right before the parade.

Back in the Year of a Million Dreams we won the ultimate fastpass at Epcot. DS and I used our Living with the Land fastpasses to be funny and laughed that we were probably the only people to ever FP that ride. Not so anymore, but hopefully people realize that there really aren't any good tier two choices (maybe Spaceship Earth at certain times) and just laugh at the ridiculousness instead of feeling embarrassed.

 

[momtosam]

I know for a fact that the info shows up on screens. We were behind a family of four, three of whom got 3 Green Orbs and one of whom got the blue swirl of death. "Try again", the CM said. The did. Try a third time. They did. Finally, the CM looked at the screen, made a few taps, and said: "Yep. It says right here that you are all linked together and that you all have a valid FP. Go ahead in." So the monitors can override the orbs. But I don't think that means that the orbs can be replaced (for that reason, but read on). It would take longer, (and be far more tiresome for the CM with the risk of eye strain) to stare at their tablets all day instead of glancing at green and blue orbs.

I agree with morethananyonex that many of the changes that we would like to see are simply not compatible with the new system, so there is no reason to dream or hope. The system isn't perfect, but it isn't a complete failure. However, certain negative aspects could be fixed without messing with the whole system. First, eliminate the first Mickey and get the FP+ lines into the queue area where they belong. The first Mickey is "catching" a very small percentage of people who make it turn blue. Some of those people are legitimately in line, and if so, a CM at the second Mickey could make a few taps and figure this out as witnessed in what I posted above. That "fix" can just as easily be done at the second Mickey. As for people who do not have a valid FP+ for the ride? Well, they just wasted 15 minutes in line and will be shown the side exit. How many times would they have to make that walk of shame before they stopped trying to use the FP line when they weren't supposed to. While I'll admit that ferreting these issues out is better done at the beginning of the line, the trade-off has become intolerable lines that flow out in to the parks causing unsightly mobs and clogging up traffic areas. A choice has to be made, and in my opinion, it is better to "clean up the parks" and have one Mickey at the boarding area than to have a "perfect" system that has two Mickeys as a failsafe. Here, the pursuit of perfection has become the enemy of the good. And this change would not alter the overall purpose of FP+, whatever Disney considers that to be.

The second change that I would make is to allow all guests who have purchased an admission medium to pre-book. This should be done ASAP so that kiosks are used primarily for making changes. People should not have to wait in a 60 minute kiosk line in order to get a FP+ that will allow them to circumvent a 70 minute Standby Line. Just typing that or saying it out loud shows how stupid this is. Again, this would not alter the reasoning behind FP+ one bit.
Third, I would keep the number of FP+ at 3, but based on crowd estimates and actual data (which they can get from the entrance tapstiles), they should dole out "surprise" extra Fast Passes as capacity allows. I don't pretend to know all the math, but I do know that FP+ usage and ride tolerance would be and should be different on days when the crowd level is a 2 as opposed to an 8. The system right now is set up as a "one size fits all" when indeed, the parks are very different experiences based on crowd levels. If, by 2:00 p.m., the system has not allocated nearly its maximum number of FP+s, then start sending out emails to the people who arrived earliest allowing them to have one or two "bonus FP+s". They could be for any time (that the system shows is not fully booked) and could be used for any ride (that the system shows is not fully booked). Again, I don't see how this would interfere with the overall goals of FP+.

 

[momtosam]

How about this: add more headliner rides to more evenly distribute fast pass riders. (Obviously not an immediate solution, but in theory it would help.)

 

[bcrook]

How about this: add more headliner rides to more evenly distribute fast pass riders. (Obviously not an immediate solution, but in theory it would help.)

Disney could hire the Universal people and get those things up in a season or two.

 

[mom2rtk]

Disney could the hire the Universal people and get those things up in a season or two.