Idea to improve DAS

[Nixie]

If CMs are already subtracting 10 - 15 mins to account for the FP lines, why can't they kinda keep track of the accessible line and just subtract the time for that off the initial wait time?

 

[cmwade77]

I think you read those backwards, in the proposed system in order to be fair they would need to add for travel time, not subtract. I think they are now subtracting to account for the fp line wait.

I dont think anybody is arguing that the current system is not broken for physical disabilities. I think your proposal makes sense when you bring in limited cars, loading, etc. The proposed system would create a whole huge problem for non-physical disabilities abuse and overuse. Clearly an across the board system makes little sense.

To be fair in the proposed system they would not need to add or subtract travel time at all. Under the current system, they already subtract for travel time, they do not subtract for FP return times. At least that is the official line from the CMs at the DLR, I don't know what the official line from WDW is.

 

[cmwade77]

If CMs are already subtracting 10 - 15 mins to account for the FP lines, why can't they kinda keep track of the accessible line and just subtract the time for that off the initial wait time?

I would agree, if wait times were the only issue.

But this doesn't address the issue of additional traveling under the current system, return times not being issued near park closing, etc.

 

[keishashadow]

If CMs are already subtracting 10 - 15 mins to account for the FP lines, why can't they kinda keep track of the accessible line and just subtract the time for that off the initial wait time?

when we utilized it the first day offered it was explained that the 10 minute subtraction reflected the FP wait time. It was more on only one attraction in AK but it was mid week and rather slow.

It would be nice if they would utilize those red cards on the lanyards in the FP line (perhaps hourly?) to determine an accurate wait time, especially on E ticket attractions.

Surprised to read post re refusal for return times near the end of the day when Disney has long-standing policy otherwise for those in line to be accommodated.

System was described to us as in testing phase, hopefully they will fine tune it to best accommodate their guests.

 

[Schmeck]

I would agree, if wait times were the only issue.

But this doesn't address the issue of additional traveling under the current system, return times not being issued near park closing, etc.

What additional traveling? You go to the podium, get a time, and don't have to wait in the queue. The 'traveling' is all up to the individual guest. You could just go sit on a bench or wall for the allotted wait time. It would be nice if WDW added more benches though.

I do think it is unfair for guests with a DAS to not be allowed to be added to the queue if a queue is still open. If other guests are getting in the queue, then a time should be given. How late are FP return times? Do they go all the way up to closing, or do they stop some time before?

 

[Rowanonfire]

when we utilized it the first day offered it was explained that the 10 minute subtraction reflected the FP wait time. It was more on only one attraction in AK but it was mid week and rather slow.

It would be nice if they would utilize those red cards on the lanyards in the FP line (perhaps hourly?) to determine an accurate wait time, especially on E ticket attractions.

Surprised to read post re refusal for return times near the end of the day when Disney has long-standing policy otherwise for those in line to be accommodated.

System was described to us as in testing phase, hopefully they will fine tune it to best accommodate their guests.

This is where the problem comes in - if there's only 20 mins to park close, but a 60 minute queue, how COULD that be handled for DAS users? You can't give them a return time of 60 minutes...the line will be long closed then...Yet a normal guest can get in line with a minute to park close regardless of wait.

There seems to be no set way of handling this with the DAS currently. It's very unfair to disabled guests, but the only real solution, is to give a shorter return time then the standby queue. Say, 5 minutes to line close . And all the people who are so obsessed about the system being totally "fair" wouldn't be happy about that.

 

[aaarcher86]

This is where the problem comes in - if there's only 20 mins to park close, but a 60 minute queue, how COULD that be handled for DAS users? You can't give them a return time of 60 minutes...the line will be long closed then...Yet a normal guest can get in line with a minute to park close regardless of wait. There seems to be no set way of handling this with the DAS currently. It's very unfair to disabled guests, but the only real solution, is to give a shorter return time then the standby queue. Say, 5 minutes to line close . And all the people who are so obsessed about the system being totally "fair" wouldn't be happy about that.

I don't see the big deal in writing the return for 5 before park closing in this case. It's a unique circumstance.

I'd also be fine with wheelchair users needing HA vehicles going straight into the WC line without a return time since they have to wait for a specific few cars to make it through the rotation.

 

[Jrob369]

What additional traveling? You go to the podium, get a time, and don't have to wait in the queue. The 'traveling' is all up to the individual guest. You could just go sit on a bench or wall for the allotted wait time. It would be nice if WDW added more benches though. I do think it is unfair for guests with a DAS to not be allowed to be added to the queue if a queue is still open. If other guests are getting in the queue, then a time should be given. How late are FP return times? Do they go all the way up to closing, or do they stop some time before?

Depending on the disability the extra traveling may be a requirement for the caregiver, if not the individual. For those that can't get near the attraction for whatever reason, the caregiver may have to go get a time and then go gather in an another area.

Extra traveling may also be required by the individual with the disability for various reasons if they are on their own or with a group of disabled people. They may not be able to be exposed too long in the weather, can't handle overstimulation, etc., depending on the disability.

These are things that require the accommodation. They aren't just so someone can skip out and go shopping or hit up a short wait ride. If the disability can be accommodated by sitting on a bench, they probably wouldn't get a card and would probably be referred to wheelchair rentals.

 

[cmwade77]

What additional traveling? You go to the podium, get a time, and don't have to wait in the queue. The 'traveling' is all up to the individual guest. You could just go sit on a bench or wall for the allotted wait time. It would be nice if WDW added more benches though.

I do think it is unfair for guests with a DAS to not be allowed to be added to the queue if a queue is still open. If other guests are getting in the queue, then a time should be given. How late are FP return times? Do they go all the way up to closing, or do they stop some time before?

At Disneyland this is not true, you must go to a kiosk, then to the attraction. As I described earlier in this thread that can amount to a lot 9f extra traveling for two attractions that are essentially right next to each other.

 

[tinkerpea]

I wanted to point out the Universal has been mentioned as using the system the OP suggests. If it is used at Universal, it is Universal in California.

Universal Studios/IOA in Florida uses basically the save system as Disney's DAS.

Universal Orlando uses the system we have been talking about, I was only there a few months ago and its works very much like this but better,
If the line is under 20 mins you go on if not then you get a return time

 

[tinkerpea]

I don't think I understand either. Even though you can't use your pass for 60 minutes, can't you go on other rides that have no wait or only a very short wait or see a show? It seems to me that with planning, you could go non stop and do much more than people having to wait in the regular line. Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds like a front of the line pass that easily could be abused. I'm not trying to be difficult, but I just can't figure out how this system would be fair to people who have to wait in line. If you add looping to this system, couldn't you ride two or three times while someone else is still in line waiting for their first ride?

The poster understands just fine,
Since we can that with the DAS too!

 

[cmwade77]

Universal Orlando uses the system we have been talking about, I was only there a few months ago and its works very much like this but better,
If the line is under 20 mins you go on if not then you get a return time

As I have said before, I can't speak about other parks in Florida. The ones I know are California and universal and sea world out here use exactly what I suggested in my original post.

 

[cmwade77]

The poster understands just fine,
Since we can that with the DAS too!

Exactly why I can't understand the difference as far as potential abuse goes. There are other differences, but the differences make the system more equal than it is now.

 

[Schmeck]

Depending on the disability the extra traveling may be a requirement for the caregiver, if not the individual. For those that can't get near the attraction for whatever reason, the caregiver may have to go get a time and then go gather in an another area.

Extra traveling may also be required by the individual with the disability for various reasons if they are on their own or with a group of disabled people. They may not be able to be exposed too long in the weather, can't handle overstimulation, etc., depending on the disability.

These are things that require the accommodation. They aren't just so someone can skip out and go shopping or hit up a short wait ride. If the disability can be accommodated by sitting on a bench, they probably wouldn't get a card and would probably be referred to wheelchair rentals.

But these are everyday issues that one would have to deal with anyways - not an accommodation because one is at a theme park. The guest would be expected to do whatever it is the family would do in a non-Disney situation. Remember, ADA requires opportunity for equal access, and that is all.

 

[SueM in MN]

As I have said before, I can't speak about other parks in Florida. The ones I know are California and universal and sea world out here use exactly what I suggested in my original post.

The ones in Orlando give a return time the same as the Disney DAS.
The difference is they allow immediate access if the line is shorter than a certain amount of minutes (about 20 - I've heard everything from 15 to 30).

Disney may change the amount of 'immediate access' time after DAS has been in use for a while.

 

[mistysue]

Exactly why I can't understand the difference as far as potential abuse goes. There are other differences, but the differences make the system more equal than it is now.

That's the catch, for disabilities that do not involve waiting for extra cars, the proposed change makes it preferential treatment. It is NOT equal. There is nothing equal about "I walk up to a ride with a 60 minute wait and enter through fastpass lane, everybody else goes standby." Unless there were an actual blackout where you had to sit in a room full of people until the standby people got off the ride, it wouldn't be equal. I know that is ridiculous, but trying to argue that something is equal because it benefits you and especially at the expense of others is not reasonable.

It is just plain unfair that you have to wait because there is a line for accessible vehicles and Disney should address that. Reacting by giving preferential treatment to any other group of people who do NOT have to wait for special vehicles is at the expense of every non-DAS bearing individual in the park.

The abuse comes in at the proposal gives instant gratification. The DAS does not. Regardless of what you can do with the extra time, it completely changes the abuse potential. If you didn't see a huge benefit, you wouldn't care so much. So think about it for a minute- if it gives you such a huge extra benefit, doesn't it also give other people a huge extra benefit? From what I'm reading it looks like you are saying they are the same as long as they do it my way, but if they don't do it my way it's completely different. So if they are the same, let people wait instead of going on instantly.

 

[lovethattink]

That's the catch, for disabilities that do not involve waiting for extra cars, the proposed change makes it preferential treatment. It is NOT equal. There is nothing equal about "I walk up to a ride with a 60 minute wait and enter through fastpass lane, everybody else goes standby." Unless there were an actual blackout where you had to sit in a room full of people until the standby people got off the ride, it wouldn't be equal. I know that is ridiculous, but trying to argue that something is equal because it benefits you and especially at the expense of others is not reasonable.

It is just plain unfair that you have to wait because there is a line for accessible vehicles and Disney should address that. Reacting by giving preferential treatment to any other group of people who do NOT have to wait for special vehicles is at the expense of every non-DAS bearing individual in the park.

The abuse comes in at the proposal gives instant gratification. The DAS does not. Regardless of what you can do with the extra time, it completely changes the abuse potential. If you didn't see a huge benefit, you wouldn't care so much. So think about it for a minute- if it gives you such a huge extra benefit, doesn't it also give other people a huge extra benefit? From what I'm reading it looks like you are saying they are the same as long as they do it my way, but if they don't do it my way it's completely different. So if they are the same, let people wait instead of going on instantly.

That makes sense. I see where you are coming from now.

The potential for abuse is still there with the current system, unfortunately.

 

[Rowanonfire]

Universal allow you straight on the ride if the queue is 30 minutes or less, and, interestingly, they just changed their system so that now, if you have a time on you card for a wait of more then 30 minutes, you can still use your pass to go on attractions of 30mins or less wait as you're waiting for your other ride time. It seems to me this is convenient timing when so many people are claiming they will not go to Disney now.

At Seaworld you can get several return times at once. I personally, have no problem with Disney's system, however, they now seem to offer the "least" of the parks at a glance, which will only fuel the complainers.

 

[cmwade77]

That's the catch, for disabilities that do not involve waiting for extra cars, the proposed change makes it preferential treatment. It is NOT equal. There is nothing equal about "I walk up to a ride with a 60 minute wait and enter through fastpass lane, everybody else goes standby." Unless there were an actual blackout where you had to sit in a room full of people until the standby people got off the ride, it wouldn't be equal. I know that is ridiculous, but trying to argue that something is equal because it benefits you and especially at the expense of others is not reasonable.

It is just plain unfair that you have to wait because there is a line for accessible vehicles and Disney should address that. Reacting by giving preferential treatment to any other group of people who do NOT have to wait for special vehicles is at the expense of every non-DAS bearing individual in the park.

The abuse comes in at the proposal gives instant gratification. The DAS does not. Regardless of what you can do with the extra time, it completely changes the abuse potential. If you didn't see a huge benefit, you wouldn't care so much. So think about it for a minute- if it gives you such a huge extra benefit, doesn't it also give other people a huge extra benefit? From what I'm reading it looks like you are saying they are the same as long as they do it my way, but if they don't do it my way it's completely different. So if they are the same, let people wait instead of going on instantly.

I disagree that my system would lead to more abuse, mostly because the record proves otherwise at other parks that use what I suggest.

That being said, I have also suggested in recent posts other ways that might help solve the issues.

Again, the main issues that i have are:
Guests who need assistance must travel further than the ones who don't. (Particularly at Disneyland, but also at WDW to some extent, depending on the needs)

Guests who need assistance are always waiting longer than those that don't.

Not being able to get return times close to closing, even though the standby line is open.

Another possible solution would be for every attraction to have an ipad and have your first return time issued at GR, then have the next time assigned at the ride you just got off of. They could even assign it when getting in line, but account for about how long you would wait there and the length of that ride in the return time. So, this could solve two of the issues, but this still doesn't solve return times close to closing.

I am not saying my way is the only way, but I am saying my way solves these issues and I still maintain without an increase in abuse, as the parks who changed from return time passes to what I suggested have reported that they saw a decrease in abuse once they started doing what I suggested in the first post.

 

[aaarcher86]

I disagree that my system would lead to more abuse, mostly because the record proves otherwise at other parks that use what I suggest. That being said, I have also suggested in recent posts other ways that might help solve the issues. Again, the main issues that i have are: Guests who need assistance must travel further than the ones who don't. (Particularly at Disneyland, but also at WDW to some extent, depending on the needs) Guests who need assistance are always waiting longer than those that don't. Not being able to get return times close to closing, even though the standby line is open. Another possible solution would be for every attraction to have an ipad and have your first return time issued at GR, then have the next time assigned at the ride you just got off of. They could even assign it when getting in line, but account for about how long you would wait there and the length of that ride in the return time. So, this could solve two of the issues, but this still doesn't solve return times close to closing. I am not saying my way is the only way, but I am saying my way solves these issues and I still maintain without an increase in abuse, as the parks who changed from return time passes to what I suggested have reported that they saw a decrease in abuse once they started doing what I suggested in the first post.

Yes, but parks also use the current DAS system just fine as well.

I think keeping it the way it is, allowing immediate access into the WC line versus a return time, and allowing return times being given as 5 minutes before the park closes would be an easy fix.

Adding a few more kiosks would be nice, but I think it's hard to gauge how much the average guest walks around the park as well. I've hoofed it across the parks on multiple occasions.