Idea - 50/50 direct/resale to remove restrictions.

[NVDISFamily]

Here is a crazy idea I suggested to my guide and I wonder what the community thinks. Despite being crazy enough to buy at RIV, I think the resale restrictions there and likely at VDH, Poly Tower, etc. suck. I hate the fact that if I wanted/needed to, I can't transfer some of the points I own over to my RIV contract to add an extra day at 7 months, upgrade to a bigger room, and such.

So what if they changed the restrictions to be removed on resale points as long as you owned at least as many direct points (50/50). Say you own 300 points at VGF direct and decide you want to buy 300 points at RIV resale. These RIV points could be called resale unrestricted points and you could still use the RIV points to book at other resorts at 7 months. Or if instead you added on another 300 points at VGF resale then you would be able to use all of your 600 points to try and book at the newer restricted resorts at 7 months.

My guide said it didn't sound completely crazy. I'm sure I don't have enough power to change anything. If enough of us like this idea and word get's out, perhaps this could change things? I would bet it would tempt more people who are resale only to grab a few points direct?

 

[wnielsen1]

One thing they have specifically reserved the right to do is qualify resale points (in effect turn them into direct points) when you buy direct points. They have never done it yet and they may never offer it. Yet they could. What they are not going to do is allow the opposite - let you add a resale contract after the fact and have those treated as direct. Why would they do that? They don't make money on that.

 

[varyth]

After hearing horror stories from resale owners hitting booking errors when the 50% borrowing rule was implemented, I can't imagine Disney IT would be up to the task. (In this hypothetical.)

 

[supersnoop]

What's the benefit to Disney?

 

[Sandisw]

As already shared, the actual language of the POS in RIV allow them to pretty much do whatever they want now and in the future in terms of restrictions.

They can remove them, and even put them back. They can charge a fee of some sort in any way.

So, a program that allows someone to upgrade resale points to be eligible to trade to all resorts is something they can certainly do.

For example, I have 125 restricted RIV points. They could decide to offer me the option to upgrade those points for an additional fee if I buy 125 direct.

BVTC could probably charge a one time fee to owners of restricted points an opportunity to exchange them into qualified points on a reservation by reservation basis,

There are lots of options they could do if they want something between completely restricted to no restrictions at all.

The one thing I am pretty confident about is that whatever program they think of , it would cost more for a resale owner to turn restricted points into unrestricted points, then if they just bought direct to begin with.

If not, it defeats the whole purpose in why DVD decided on them to begin with in 2019.

It is why the minimum for membership extras has changed since it began in 2016. People bought resale and then added on only 25 points direct and now had full benefits. Now it’s 150…the same minimum to buy as a new owner.

Now, I certainly would consider such option to convert my RIV points, but it would depend on the cost, I bought them resale because I knew we would use them without issue there, and we saved $6K doing so.

 

[Brian Noble]

Other timeshare developers allow you to "wash" dirty resale points to make them fully qualified. Diamond was one: if you bought a block resale points, you could later buy another same-sized block of developer points and bring the resale points in. The order matters: You don't get to qualify resale points just because you happen to have bought developer points. I'm not sure if they are still doing this now that Hilton bought them, but they might.

Marriott has what they call an "education fee" that you pay to re-qualify resale points. It is about 20-25% of the cost of a retail point, though I would not be surprised if it goes up---it's been the same dollar-amount-value for a while even though the base point cost has gone up.

But, if Disney goes this route, you can rest assured that it will require new money. It won't be "because you are such a good customter you can dot this."

 

[CarolynFH]

I hate the fact that if I wanted/needed to, I can't transfer some of the points I own over to my RIV contract to add an extra day at 7 months, upgrade to a bigger room, and such.

This is off topic, but I'm asking you please, for the benefit of new people reading and learning here, please don't talk about transferring points (presumably, from other contracts at other home resorts) over to your RIV contract. That can't be done. Transfers are between memberships, not between contracts.

If you're talking about using points from other home resorts at 7 months to supplement your stay at RIV, you're talking about either combining points from different home resorts (if those contracts are in the same membership as your RIV points) at 7 months, or transferring points from a separate membership you own (different UY or/and titled differently) to the membership that holds the RIV contract -- and then combining them to book a single reservation.

I know that sounds like I'm quibbling about terminology, but having been around here for some years, I've seen how the differences between combining points and transferring points can be a source of great confusion to newbies.

Okay, I'll get off my soap box now!

 

[Sandisw]

And to add, it’s why we sold BLT that we bought in 2020 in 2021 because restricted points did not play nice with unrestricted points when you had the chance to snag another night or even upgrade room because other wanted to come.

We figured we could deal but in the end just not worth it because RIV is tops for us.

 

[NVDISFamily]

This is off topic, but I'm asking you please, for the benefit of new people reading and learning here, please don't talk about transferring points (presumably, from other contracts at other home resorts) over to your RIV contract. That can't be done. Transfers are between memberships, not between contracts.

If you're talking about using points from other home resorts at 7 months to supplement your stay at RIV, you're talking about either combining points from different home resorts (if those contracts are in the same membership as your RIV points) at 7 months, or transferring points from a separate membership you own (different UY or/and titled differently) to the membership that holds the RIV contract -- and then combining them to book a single reservation.

I know that sounds like I'm quibbling about terminology, but having been around here for some years, I've seen how the differences between combining points and transferring points can be a source of great confusion to newbies.

Okay, I'll get off my soap box now!

I post a lot so I sound like I know something but I assure you I'm a total DVC noob. I didn't know DVC existed until like 4 to 6 months ago. I just jumped in hard, put a brick on the gas, and am in buying mode LOL.

So yes, I would be transferring between my two memberships. Not that I would want to transfer my VGC points out at this point as they cost a kidney, but who knows, years from now when the cost is far away in the rear-view mirror I might want to ninja a few VGC points to use somewhere and they won't let me use my "dirty" VGC points at RIV, kind of sucks LOL.

 

[NVDISFamily]

After hearing horror stories from resale owners hitting booking errors when the 50% borrowing rule was implemented, I can't imagine Disney IT would be up to the task. (In this hypothetical.)

Agree 100%, they would have to make IT more robust to do this. I don't think it would be too hard to build something at the database that can assist with this and to make sure that it flags when you sale a contract or something that you now have to be checked again for compliance or something.

What's the benefit to Disney?

I would assume some charges/fees would also be required to do this as Brian and others have pointed out. Not sure what the exact number would be but I could see paying a reasonable chunk in the coming years to "wash" my resale points to give them more flexibility.



Thanks for the replies and feedback. If there is enough of us out there that would be interested in such a program, and as long as they don't charge an insane amount would be worth asking for the option.

 

[supersnoop]

Agree 100%, they would have to make IT more robust to do this. I don't think it would be too hard to build something at the database that can assist with this and to make sure that it flags when you sale a contract or something that you now have to be checked again for compliance or something.


I would assume some charges/fees would also be required to do this as Brian and others have pointed out. Not sure what the exact number would be but I could see paying a reasonable chunk in the coming years to "wash" my resale points to give them more flexibility.



Thanks for the replies and feedback. If there is enough of us out there that would be interested in such a program, and as long as they don't charge an insane amount would be worth asking for the option.

I don't think "Disney gets paid" is enough of an incentive. Disney is incredibly protective of their brand. So, maybe the better question is, what's the downside for Disney. They introduced the "benefits" to dissuade people from buying resale. Introducing a concept as you've proposed would completely negate that whole idea. It would give people an avenue for purchasing resale and then converting to direct with only incremental revenue to Disney. They don't want to just get paid, they want to be in control. That's why I believe any sort of wishful thinking that Disney could throw resale buyers a bone is just a dream. You're asking Disney to do something nice for the very customers they didn't want in the first place. From a corporate perspective, I'd call this a non-starter.

 

[Stargazer65]

I like it, I'll sign for approval.

Although if both my current resales pass ROFR, it probably won't benefit me, my ratio of clean points to dirty points will be getting too low.

 

[Stargazer65]

On another note, I think we need a new acronym for clean/dirty point ratio. I assume we should just use CP ratio and calculate it as clean/total point ratio.

For example: If I own just one 150 point direct contract my CP ratio would be 100%. If I owned 150 direct and 150 resale my CP ratio would be 50%. In order to launder your dirty points, your CP ratio must be ≥ 50%.

 

[RoseGold]

DVC has done some creative fundraising in the past, like the OKW extension, but washing points has never been on the table, even though it's common in other systems. It's not like this is a new idea.

If they were going to do it, I would have thought it went with either the shiny new restricted property in 2019. Or, with the desperate money grab in 2021-ish. Still didn't happen. If it does happen, I think it will come alongside a new, locked down resort, and it will be EXPENSIVE.

 

[BeachClub2014]

DVC has done some creative fundraising in the past, like the OKW extension, but washing points has never been on the table, even though it's common in other systems. It's not like this is a new idea.

If they were going to do it, I would have thought it went with either the shiny new restricted property in 2019. Or, with the desperate money grab in 2021-ish. Still didn't happen. If it does happen, I think it will come alongside a new, locked down resort, and it will be EXPENSIVE.

ITA.

Could still be in the works for down the road, like you mentioned. Right now, it isn't a huge deal but if they stick by the decision to have restrictions, then a points-washing/upgrading scheme has to be in the cards.

 

[wnielsen1]

DVC has done some creative fundraising in the past, like the OKW extension, but washing points has never been on the table, even though it's common in other systems. It's not like this is a new idea.

If they were going to do it, I would have thought it went with either the shiny new restricted property in 2019. Or, with the desperate money grab in 2021-ish. Still didn't happen. If it does happen, I think it will come alongside a new, locked down resort, and it will be EXPENSIVE.

$100/point MINIMUM.

 

[CarolynFH]

If DVD does this, I can't see them charging less than the difference between resale (at that time) and direct. They're not going to encourage people to buy resale and then buy up to direct at a total price lower than buying direct to begin with!

 

[Nursemanit]

One thing to keep in mind - 100% of the points sold in a resort were sold directly from Disney. Disney has made their fair profit on that initial share. If you buy a house do you go back in time to the original developer and give him money? Of course not, he made his money on the first sale and that is what the developer is entitled to.

Disney really has no claim on resale and we should have no obligation to kick back to them.

This of course does not apply to Perks paid for by DVC sales - that is fair.

 

[Sandisw]

One thing to keep in mind - 100% of the points sold in a resort were sold directly from Disney. Disney has made their fair profit on that initial share. If you buy a house do you go back in time to the original developer and give him money? Of course not, he made his money on the first sale and that is what the developer is entitled to.

Disney really has no claim on resale and we should have no obligation to kick back to them.

This of course does not apply to Perks paid for by DVC sales - that is fair.

DVD could only ever make this type of program an option for anyone who wanted to end up with unrestricted points later on. They could never require it.

However, BVTC can institute a fee to trade to other resorts if they want. That is part of the DVC resort agreement as part of the POS. They can amend the booking window to trade and it doesn’t have to be the same for every resort. But all of those rules would apply to all points..no matter how bought.

For example, if they decided they wanted to make the booking window to trade into VGF shorter than SSR they can.

But it would apply to direct and resale points.

They fact they never have leads one to believe it’s not worth it to do that and complicate the process

 

[NVDISFamily]

$100/point MINIMUM.

If DVD does this, I can't see them charging less than the difference between resale (at that time) and direct. They're not going to encourage people to buy resale and then buy up to direct at a total price lower than buying direct to begin with!

Perhaps I’m just in a unique bubble but I just don’t see them going that high for a few reasons. First I’ll start with what I would say would be a fair price for this feature (at current market rates for direct and resale) - 40 to 60 bucks.

So the reasons.

Many wont do it at any price as they are more than fine with their classic resort selections under the old program and won’t care they cant book at RIV, VDH, etc.

If you take the average resale purchase at the better point per dollar resorts that are popular on the resale market (educated guess per the ROFR thread) such as SSR. The cost now plus the “wash” fee take the resort into the same price as the more “premium” resorts resale or direct (no hate for SSR - we loved it and look forward to going back).

There would be significant upside and free cash flow to Disney by doing this. Plus if they required you to maintain the direct to resale ratio to keep the points clean then it would discourage people adding their points to the resale market.

I think the biggest barrier to DVC doing this is they likely cant get the IT to work and they want to pretend like resale doesn’t exist.