I want to speak to Jim Lewis, so why can't I?

[erionm]

I thought the rooms that were traded out went to RCI not back to the cash reservations?? Thereby, people trading in thru RCI can get a "rental?" In order to trade in via RCI, you pay a $95 resort fee to cover the buses and magical express etc. Each DVC has rooms set aside solely for cash reservations.

If a guest is upgraded from another hotel, that is to a cash room, not a DVC owned.

When a member uses points for cruises, disney hotels or adventures by disney, cash rooms are rented by CRO. CRO & DVC each get a portion of the money paid to reserve that room.

 

[zebsterama]

Are you meaning me? Because I do not feel that way at all. I know that Disney is a business and I don't expect to be catered to while on vacation there. I also am not emotionally attached to Disney, but there are some people that are.

Here is a direct quote from the OP "If we have issues every time we visit Disney, and member satisfaction does not follow up, then we sould be able to send correspondence directly to Jim Lewis."

This makes it seem as if every time they visit, they have issues that would make them contact member satisfaction. All I was saying is that if this were happening to me, I would sell because clearly they are not happy with what they are getting.

Here's your original quote again - please see below. When you make reference to "some DVC members", just wondering, who exactly did you mean by "some DVC members"?

Once you have answered that, then I believe that you will have indirectly found the answer to your own question, "Are you meaning me?"

Originally Posted by connorlevismom
I think that some DVC members think that they are more important than everyone else, for some reason. I think that some members have unrealistic expectations and that ruins their trips a lot of times. I have been a member for 6 years and go twice a year for a week each time. I have never had anything happen at a DVC resort (or Disney for that matter) that has ruined my vacation or made me so mad that I needed to speak with Jim Lewis.

However, I do not go into my vacations expecting royal treatment because I am a DVC member. I go into my vacations happy to be on vacation and have some time to relax in my favorite place. I have never been treated like a second class citizen by anyone at Disney and I suppose if I had several trips that have made me so mad that it ruined things, I would sell my DVC contracts and move on.

ON A SIDE NOTE: In my mind I will on occasion make a connection between much of the mob mentality sentiment (can someone say “Dog Pile!” … for those that don’t know “A group of people jumping on one person and creating a tower of people while crushing the person on the bottom.”) on the Disboards earily similar to William Golding's Lord of the Flies when it comes to criticizing anything DVC or Disney related.

Here's a quote from Wikipedia depicting the underlying themes of the novel, Background - At an allegorical level, the central theme is the conflicting impulses toward civilization—live by rules, peacefully and in harmony—and towards the will to power. Different subjects include the tension between groupthink and individuality, between rational and emotional reactions, and between morality and immorality. How these play out, and how different people feel the influences of these, form a major subtext of Lord of the Flies.

Does anyone else get that warm and fuzzy feeling on occasional when visiting the Disboards?

Maybe it's just me?

Cheers,
Zebsterama

 

[connorlevismom]

Here's your original quote again - please see below. When you make reference to "some DVC members", just wondering, who exactly did you mean by "some DVC members"?

Once you have answered that, then I believe that you will have indirectly found the answer to your own question, "Are you meaning me?"




ON A SIDE NOTE: In my mind I will on occasion make a connection between much of the mob mentality sentiment (can someone say “Dog Pile!” … for those that don’t know “A group of people jumping on one person and creating a tower of people while crushing the person on the bottom.”) on the Disboards earily similar to William Golding's Lord of the Flies when it comes to criticizing anything DVC or Disney related.

Here's a quote from Wikipedia depicting the underlying themes of the novel, Background - At an allegorical level, the central theme is the conflicting impulses toward civilization—live by rules, peacefully and in harmony—and towards the will to power. Different subjects include the tension between groupthink and individuality, between rational and emotional reactions, and between morality and immorality. How these play out, and how different people feel the influences of these, form a major subtext of Lord of the Flies.

Does anyone else get that warm and fuzzy feeling on occasional when visiting the Disboards?

Maybe it's just me?

Cheers,
Zebsterama

What I mean by "some DVC members" is just that, some DVC members.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

We had a stay at our home resort of BWV on cash last December and our stay was exactly like our stays when we stay on points. Our room request was noted but only partially satisifed and maintenance issues that needed to be resolved and for which repair people were quickly dispatched. One of those was fixed, then broke again, so we lived with a loose fan in the bathroom and noted it again on check out.

One extra inconvenience when paying with cash, we had to call housekeeping regularly to keep them from cleaning our room every day. Clearly, we are really spoiled by NOT having daily housekeeping!

So before someone decides that cash customers have it better, they should stay a few nights in their shoes. -- Suzanne

 

[paults]

This is not meant for the OP or to anyone in particular, but if you are expecting perfection and to be waited on while vacationing, DVC is not for you. DVC is a physical space for which you have purchased the right to stay. It is not a guarateed cruise, trip to Italy/Spain/Etc., a meal plan, a ticket or pass, a parking agreement (other than parking at your physical space), a loyalty club or "high society"/Disney membershilp program.

It's not even really an ownership. It is a leasehold on a small % of property granting the right to stay at said property for a varied amount of time and in varied size accommodations based on the leasehold amount (i.e. # of points).

We've never had major issues either. Wet carpet (from being cleaned between stays and high humidity in FL), which we just dealt with (if we owned a condo we'd have been in the same boat after having carpets cleaned), missing remotes, broketn luggage racks, moldy shower, missing kitchen(ette) components, etc. All of which were taken care of within a reasonable amount of time.

Our biggest complaints to member services typically aren't even within DVC's control (entirely). Epcot resort bus transportation is our most commong issue. With 4 resorts on the loop it's nearly impossible to get a seat on a bus. But that's DVC only as much as they pay for a portion of transportation through our dues. And a trade-off, better bus service means increased costs, means increased dues. This is why the loss of valet parking didn't bother me. I'd rather pay for it if I use it, then make everyone else pay for it, too. Especially since only a select few resorts even offer it.

Anyway, for people expecting to be catered to and have the "perfect" guest experience every time - no timeshare will make you happy. It's not a hotel stay and I think Disney, better than anyone, makes it as close to a hotel stay as they can.

I believe it's 5 resorts in the loop, BW/BWV,SWAN ,DOLPHIN,YC, BC/BCV

 

[bobbyg4eagle]

Not really.
But I do agree that membership does and should have it's privileges. Members have paid an initiation (bought points at a premium) and pay dues (mf's), and a good club will make sure the employees give the impression that the members are special. And members are special. They support the club. Exclusivity is what make paying for a membership worth while. Disney is not a private club, but once the members see that semi-private has turned into greater public access, they cease to renew memberships, discourage friends from membership and show up less and less to support the club and eventually sell and stop paying dues. Once DVC crosses the threshold of exclusivity towards more public access, whether its with rental points or cash discounts to non-members, it becomes similar to a public golf course and the members will leave. I think it is already happening. Writing is on the wall, something smells in Denmark, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ....
It will still be special, just not as special as before.

 

[Dean]

When I work with my "customers" - internal customers - I have a continual issue with the difference between "I haven't heard your concerns." "I have heard your concerns, taking them into account, and we are moving this way anyway" and "I've heard your concerns, and you are right - we need to do something different."

The first is wrong. I need to hear my customers' concerns. So does Disney.

The third makes everyone happy.

Its the second. My customers often have concerns that are risks we are willing to accept. That addressing them would derail the project scope, schedule or budget. But sometimes they get it into their heads that if they talk enough, any right thinking person will see that we cannot move forward until we make sure that this is taken care of! Sometimes, I have to shut them down....we've heard you, we understand, but we are willing to accept that. And there are people who are still convinced that you didn't hear them simply because they didn't get their way. These people will eat up your time, they will sabotage your efforts, and frankly, when they take their toys and go home - its good riddance.

(I have a case where SIX YEARS LATER the people who didn't get their way are still whining because they didn't get their way. Its a case of "oh, God, don't bring THAT up....oh, you did...well, there goes that meeting. Hold a grudge, anyone.")

People are often like toddlers - if they continue to tantrum long enough, they might get their own way. If they don't get their own way, its because you are "mean."

Exactly except for member satisfaction has essentially no input or control over policy and system decisions. Certainly they'll listen, patronize and collate the information and IF there's enough response in a given direction, it MAY have effect depending on specifics. It's like having a secretary talk to a major but unhappy client about a concern. The action itself essentially says "to heck with you, we're past that and you do what you've got to do".

Many of the rooms rented for cash are due to dvc members trading out, but that member has paid dues, this seems to be forgotten by some

Can you explain who is paying for mousekeeping under the following cicumstances, guest books value for $88 a night (this has been reported in threads on disboards) with free dining, then gets upgraded to dvc 1 bedroom, we know what extra mouse keeping costs per day.

I personally do believe we subsidize paying guests.

For CRO rooms I think there is enough of a disconnect to ignore the fact that some of those rooms got them by members trading to cash type options. CRO take a 50% cut, the system has to pay for the housekeeping, etc. Ultimately we don't have enough info to know whether we supplement the cash guests on matters such as front desk, housekeeping, etc. We likely do supplement at least in the fact that we give up SO many points IF we exchange out for cash type exchanges.

For whatever reason, many here and DVC members in general are not objective when it comes to DVC. Whether it's too high of expectations, believing the "we're more than a timeshare" spiel or an emotional attachment likely varies with the individual. However, for many here on DIS, it is much like you're insulted their family member just by having an opinion on a certain subject. Whether it be choosing to take offense that someone has a negative opinion of aspects related to say SSR or the "how dare they" related to valet parking or reallocation, etc there's no doubt it happens and happens often. For many situations it can be summed up as the entitlement mentality.

Not really.
But I do agree that membership does and should have it's privileges. Members have paid an initiation (bought points at a premium) and pay dues (mf's), and a good club will make sure the employees give the impression that the members are special. And members are special. They support the club. Exclusivity is what make paying for a membership worth while. Disney is not a private club, but once the members see that semi-private has turned into greater public access, they cease to renew memberships, discourage friends from membership and show up less and less to support the club and eventually sell and stop paying dues. Once DVC crosses the threshold of exclusivity towards more public access, whether its with rental points or cash discounts to non-members, it becomes similar to a public golf course and the members will leave. I think it is already happening. Writing is on the wall, something smells in Denmark, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ....
It will still be special, just not as special as before.

The only true privilege of membership, and the only one that should be expected, is the opportunity to stay at DVC resorts subject to availability along with reasonable management of those resorts. Anything else much outside that general realm as an expectation is unreasonable. Just go back and read the reallocation thread's 1 & 2 along with the Valet thread and you'll see exactly what I'm saying.

 

[bobbyg4eagle]

The only true privilege of membership, and the only one that should be expected, is the opportunity to stay at DVC resorts subject to availability along with reasonable management of those resorts. Anything else much outside that general realm as an expectation is unreasonable. Just go back and read the reallocation thread's 1 & 2 along with the Valet thread and you'll see exactly what I'm saying.

It appears that DVC members are reading the fine print, or reallocation threads or Valet thread or etc.... Have you seen the resale prices? 'cuse me while I take another sip of Mick's Koolaid.. better now.

Disney is not just another timeshare, it has Parks, Characters, History and Magic...It can't be duplicated and the memories are priceless if not costly.
But as Buffalo Springfield clearly said, "There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear..."

 

[Dean]

It appears that DVC members are reading the fine print, or reallocation threads or Valet thread or etc.... Have you seen the resale prices? 'cuse me while I take another sip of Mick's Koolaid.. better now.

Disney is not just another timeshare, it has Parks, Characters, History and Magic...It can't be duplicated and the memories are priceless if not costly.
But as Buffalo Springfield clearly said, "There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear..."

That's where the technical and the emotional separate. Maybe to you it's not just another timeshare but legally, technically and to DVC, it is, just one that happens to reside at WDW for some of the resorts. Any reasonable person reading the fine print would not have major concerns about the valet or reallocation issues. "sucks for me" would be reasonable, "how dare they" would not.

 

[bobbyg4eagle]

Any reasonable person reading the fine print would not have major concerns about the valet or reallocation issues. "sucks for me" would be reasonable, "how dare they" would not.

Reasonable people leave reason at home when they vacation at Disney. As they should. That's the beauty of it. It's an escape from a reality that for some is necessary. One week of fantasy at Disney with a return trip next year is enough to deal with the other 51 in the real world. Why would you expect someone who visits Fantasyland every year (some multiple times) to be reasonable while they are there. They take pictures with imaginary characters and spend unreasonable amounts of money on overpriced food and merchanise. It would defeat the purpose. This is the place where characters eat rainbows and poop butterflies... or is that Universal?
You've been here longer than I, (to the tune of 6,000 times) but something seems to have the natives restless.

 

[Terri2007]

Reasonable people leave reason at home when they vacation at Disney. As they should. That's the beauty of it. It's an escape from a reality that for some is necessary. One week of fantasy at Disney with a return trip next year is enough to deal with the other 51 in the real world. Why would you expect someone who visits Fantasyland every year (some multiple times) to be reasonable while they are there. They take pictures with imaginary characters and spend unreasonable amounts of money on overpriced food and merchanise. It would defeat the purpose. This is the place where characters eat rainbows and poop butterflies... or is that Universal?
You've been here longer than I, (to the tune of 6,000 times) but something seems to have the natives restless.

Please don't take this wrong, but I am not exactly sure about your point. Perhaps if you would clearly state it instead of singing about it or describing it as a duck, or imagining stool as butterflies it might be more clear. At first I believed that you felt people are selling DVC in greater numbers and that is evidenced by lower resale pricing. I would generally disagree. Two posts later you point to Fantasyland and imply that no matter what happens people will buy. Regardless, I would like to speak to the former.

I practice a fair bit of brand loyalty and not just Disney. However, when I purchased DVC, the actual business of it was just that, business. I was aware of what I purchased and what it was good for and what is was not. I never likened it to being a club/secret handshake society or otherwise and I would never compare it to such. The only thing that made it exclusive was the price tag. It was and remains a deluxe place to stay in an area I wanted to frequent. Nothing more. I hope that others considering such a large investment were similarly minded, or else had money to burn.

I am not exactly sure why you think that flocks of people are leaving DVC. (natives restless, ducks quacking, etc..) People always buy in and sell out. IMO, the DVC resale market has held up amazingly well considering the global economic picture. When we purchased in 2007, it was at the height of the market/economy and overall resale marked was approximately 30 lower then direct, even at the most largest resort - SSR -where we bought. Now it's dropped to about 50%. I think that pretty reflective of the overall devaluation of the entire economy, including real estate. To me the change over the last 2-3 years is absolutely reflected by the hit a tremendous amount of people/real estate/TS took. (Had an appraisal recently?) Most TS's fared much worse... why don't you take yourself to ebay where you can buy one for a buck. Having just recently priced Marriott direct and looked at their resale market, I would say that DVC resale pricing is doing just fine.

So it's not walking like a duck or quacking like a duck or singing some 60's song. It's behaving as expected. And, while only recent DVC member, I am sure with the rise in popularity many of the perks that were necessary to bring in past buyers have gone, and created some disappointment. However, I think most people are realistic and if they like where they stay, their overall satisfaction keeps them from selling. If this changes with respect to the recent distinction between direct and resale, we shall see. IMHO.

 

[Marine Mom]

Agreed, along those same line I am not happy with the price of gas can somone please put me through to OPEC and President Obama?

If people are so unhappy then sell your points.

 

[pilferk]

Many of the rooms rented for cash are due to dvc members trading out, but that member has paid dues, this seems to be forgotten by some

Can you explain who is paying for mousekeeping under the following cicumstances, guest books value for $88 a night (this has been reported in threads on disboards) with free dining, then gets upgraded to dvc 1 bedroom, we know what extra mouse keeping costs per day.

I personally do believe we subsidize paying guests.

1) Most DVC member trade outs seem to go through RCI...and the proceeds of that rental go back to DVC (the $95 fee), at least in part. They're not rented for cash UNLESS the trade out is for something in the Disney collection (cruise, resort room, etc). In those cases, THAT members dues are (as they should be) paying for upkeep at the resort while going to a cash guest.

2) The resorts wing is paying for the mousekeeping, because that "upgrade" is to a room in cash inventory, not DVC inventory. And the cash inventory pays it's "share" of maintenance fees PLUS covers the costs of any additional benefits the cash guest is getting (mousekeeping, free dining, etc). That they think it's worthwhile to do speaks volumes on their profit margins.

 

[paults]

I am very frustrated that as members, we are not allowed to have direct contact with Jim Lewis. If we have issues every time we visit Disney, and member satisfaction does not follow up, then we sould be able to send correspondence directly to Jim Lewis.

I am struggling to understand the value of Disney, when each time we travel we keep hearing, "Oh that is for our cash paying customers not DVC members, you do not get that." Really? My dues make it possible for cash paying customers to stay at these DVC resorts so why should they receive better treatment? Over the years we have slipped from being valued members to numbers - in our opinion, DVC is treated as second class citizens, and our perks continue to decrease.

Being that I own 460 points, the yearly dues $2,400 alone that I pay would yield two weeks of accommodations anywhere. I am sure guests at these premium hotels are treated as valued customers.

As I am typing this, I have been on hold with DVC member services with a person who can hardly speak english for now 24 minutes.

havn't heard from OP since they started this post. If your still around please tell us what issues you are talking about.

 

[mjc2003]

Not really.
But I do agree that membership does and should have it's privileges. Members have paid an initiation (bought points at a premium) and pay dues (mf's), and a good club will make sure the employees give the impression that the members are special. And members are special. They support the club. Exclusivity is what make paying for a membership worth while. Disney is not a private club, but once the members see that semi-private has turned into greater public access, they cease to renew memberships, discourage friends from membership and show up less and less to support the club and eventually sell and stop paying dues. Once DVC crosses the threshold of exclusivity towards more public access, whether its with rental points or cash discounts to non-members, it becomes similar to a public golf course and the members will leave. I think it is already happening. Writing is on the wall, something smells in Denmark, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ....
It will still be special, just not as special as before.

I can see that you find golf your most relatable subject, so I will do the same for you. DVC members never figured they were joining Augusta, or some exclusive, private club. Disney is an always will be a public course. There were 50 million visitors to Disney last year, and there are less than half a million DVC members, so you can do the math. DVC folks are not so naive as to think that the place was built for them and we're just letting others in for the day. DVC was never about exclusivity, it's about access. We are entitled to access, and over time our comparable costs are a fraction of what many pay. That's it.
With regards to members leaving, go to the ROFR thread and look at all the buying. Nobody can sell until there is a buyer, so if a member leaves there is a new one to take his/her place. As for "Writing is on the wall, something smells in Denmark, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ....", I think you can rest assured that you've used your quota of cliches for the week.

I'm not sure what the message is behind your veiled, somewhat sinister, and somewhat aimless innuendos. I think you are trying to imply that DVC used to be some amazing, exclusive club and now it's not, and the people who have noticed are fleeing for the exits. I think the truth is, things have changed--but not all bad, not all good; in the end, people roll with the punches and utilize their membership in a way that suits them. As another poster said, compare DVC to most any timeshare out there and you will find that it's still quite in favor and has held it's relative value, especially when you factor in that DVC memberships expire whereas most others do not.

 

[bobbyg4eagle]

Please don't take this wrong, but I am not exactly sure about your point. Perhaps if you would clearly state it instead of singing about it or describing it as a duck, or imagining stool as butterflies it might be more clear. At first I believed that you felt people are selling DVC in greater numbers and that is evidenced by lower resale pricing. I would generally disagree. Two posts later you point to Fantasyland and imply that no matter what happens people will buy. Regardless, I would like to speak to the former.

Honestly, I haven’t been on these boards or that familiar with the workings of DVD for very long compared to many others, so some of my opinions are likely lacking in depth as well as lacking a clear point (this one included). I appreciate how so many of you openly share your thoughts and opinions about DVC and your experiences from the business standpoint of DVC as well as the emotional part of using the membership to enjoy premium parts of WDW at what appears to be a discount. A few days reading some pertinent boards can save someone time, money and generally greatly enhance their family’s experience at Disney. These boards are invaluable in that regard. Where else can one get years of insight and perspective in just a few days.

There are numerous informative and whimsical threads here. One could get lost bouncing around here and time can fly by. Very similar to gambling in Las Vegas, except my computer has a clock nearby where as the casinos don’t.
I don’t enjoy when a poster raises a valid point or invalid misunderstood point, and other posters start piling on with “just sell your points then”. Although the emotional response of DVC defending is interesting and understandable... considering the emotional and financial investment certain posters have made.
My comments about natives being restless is perhaps incorrect as well. Or the natives in this case are the execs at DVC. Steps have been taken to lessen the value of a resale (again this may be incorrect as it may be the steps are meant to only encourage new purchases thru DVD). Resale prices may in fact rise if DVD can attract and raise prices.
Going back to lurking and learning and appreciating yours and other insights.

 

[Terri2007]

Honestly, I haven’t been on these boards or that familiar with the workings of DVD for very long compared to many others, so some of my opinions are likely lacking in depth as well as lacking a clear point (this one included). I appreciate how so many of you openly share your thoughts and opinions about DVC and your experiences from the business standpoint of DVC as well as the emotional part of using the membership to enjoy premium parts of WDW at what appears to be a discount. A few days reading some pertinent boards can save someone time, money and generally greatly enhance their family’s experience at Disney. These boards are invaluable in that regard. Where else can one get years of insight and perspective in just a few days.

There are numerous informative and whimsical threads here. One could get lost bouncing around here and time can fly by. Very similar to gambling in Las Vegas, except my computer has a clock nearby where as the casinos don’t.
I don’t enjoy when a poster raises a valid point or invalid misunderstood point, and other posters start piling on with “just sell your points then”. Although the emotional response of DVC defending is interesting and understandable... considering the emotional and financial investment certain posters have made.
My comments about natives being restless is perhaps incorrect as well. Or the natives in this case are the execs at DVC. Steps have been taken to lessen the value of a resale (again this may be incorrect as it may be the steps are meant to only encourage new purchases thru DVD). Resale prices may in fact rise if DVD can attract and raise prices.
Going back to lurking and learning and appreciating yours and other insights.

I would completely agree with this sentiment. It bothers me as well, even when I don't agree with the OP.

I would not lurk, but continue to post because that is one of the ways to get more information. Again, the DVC Operations board is one of my favorites, but tends to be extremely detailed and precise, and a great resource for those owning/considering owning. There are posters that I always enjoy reading even when I don't have a particular question because their knowledge and opinion/experience is outstanding (Dean, JimMIA, crisi, Brian ? U of M professor?, Chuck Mod...number of people left out here...). If you want a detailed analysis and not a lot of fluff, this is the place.

Best.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Obviously the OP wasn't inconvenienced enough to come back here and explain what the issues were. That leads me to believe this is a non-issue.

 

[Tigger031266]

Obviously the OP wasn't inconvenienced enough to come back here and explain what the issues were. That leads me to believe this is a non-issue.

Pretty sure the OP was torched enough. Poor OP.

 

[bobbyg4eagle]

As for "Writing is on the wall, something smells in Denmark, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ....", I think you can rest assured that you've used your quota of cliches for the week.

I'm not sure what the message is behind your veiled, somewhat sinister, and somewhat aimless innuendos. I think you are trying to imply that DVC used to be some amazing, exclusive club and now it's not, and the people who have noticed are fleeing for the exits. I think the truth is, things have changed--but not all bad, not all good; in the end, people roll with the punches and utilize their membership in a way that suits them. As another poster said, compare DVC to most any timeshare out there and you will find that it's still quite in favor and has held it's relative value, especially when you factor in that DVC memberships expire whereas most others do not.

OK, didn't know there was a bad cliche quota, but I agree I've used enough for not just a week but a whole year...

What will be interesting to watch unfold, is DVC going to take further steps to enhance direct at the expense of resale, and/or curb DVC members flexibility and/or perks to the benefit of cash and/or non-members (which would be worse imho).
When faced with competition, corporations tend to either increase the attractiveness of their product to the consumer and/or decrease the attractiveness of the competition. I think it was Rockefeller who championed free market competitiveness, until he created his monopoly in oil services, and then said, "Competition is bad".

Dang it, I think I just used my weekly/yearly quota of and/or...

Thanks again for your insights