I think Pete was sort of missing the point on AP cancellations

[sethschroeder]

Nothing more than a local doing the local thing. That being wanting to elevate their position as the most important group to Disney. Pete also is upset that Disney compares daily spending between all groups and tries to point out that AP holders go 50-100 times and spend a little each time that adds up to a larger total spend.

Well if I am Disney my target group is the annual traveler not the local as well. Locals can get upset but their tickets are basically the cost of getting 12-15 days worth of tickets. Even less if the visits are more broken up.

All is well and good when Disney can cram those holiday level crowds in the parks though.

 

[RamblingMad]

I agree that potentially keeping the park reservation system after the pandemic is over.....is a troubling thought. While I don't mind the 180 Day ADR or the 3 FP rules............we love to park hop.......and keeping the current park reservation system.....removes park hopping in my opinion.

However, park hopping did/does give a financial bump to Disney......It's curious they'd setup a system that "removes" cash?

Doug

WDW planning is almost as bad as planning a wedding.

I’m seeing the park hopper option for 2021 tickets. Maybe it’s coming back. I’ve really only hopped to EPCOT when the other parks closed earlier. It’s a great place to grab food, especially during food and wine. Saves me from having to plan ADRs.

 

[kbelle8995]

I did not cancel my AP. Which now I somewhat regret.

I did not care for the amount of time that I was having to wait to get any action on extending my ap. I called several times with no results and wait 2 to 3 hours on the phone everytime. I couldn't do this on a workday since gratefully I have a full time job. My sister waited once for me and she waited for three hours and then she was disconnected. At least the CM called her back and apologized but it still took another call and a letter to get my pass extended.

Universal on the other hand I didn't have to contact they did it automatically. I don't think Disney is thinking about showing any appreciation back to their ap holders. I still have my ap but am trying not to go during to the risk of infection. And to be honest Universal sounds easier to go to and less planning anyway, We also feel that we get more bang for our buck out of a Universal AP. I am considering keeping the Universal and just dropping the Disney one. And buy a few days tickets when I feel the urge for Galaxy edge.

And the people who come once and have make trip are not coming now. Who wants to come to a COVID hot spot anyway and may not be coming for awhile.

 

[YesterDark]

You really don't understand how much money APs spend in the parks over a year's time, do you? I guarantee you it's more than one family spends on a one week vacation.

We are both. We have DL APs and live 15 min away. We also vacation at WDW almost every year, AND we also spend several nights a year on Disney property at DLR. We spend at least $10-15k annually in the parks and hotels(that's in addition to our pass cost, which is $5200 for our family of 4 at DL). They'd do well to make sure I am happy.

I don't think the "average" family drops $20k per WDW trip...

This is an interesting exercise because you are by far not the normal AP holder I imagine considering your vacation budget. How much money per year are you spending in WDW ignoring flights? What does each vacation look like?

 

[DLgal]

This is an interesting exercise because you are by far not the normal AP holder I imagine considering your vacation budget. How much money per year are you spending in WDW ignoring flights? What does each vacation look like?

We spent about $10k at WDW in 2018 on a 10 day trip (split stay BC CL and Contemporary CL w/35% military discount), four 10 day PH w/WP&M and then about $1500 on food.

In 2019, I did a girls trip with 2 friends at Contemporary for 5 nights. This was a cheaper trip since we used Armed Forces Salute tickets (about $280 each) and got a 35% discount on the room, but my portion came to about $2000. That year we also spent 3 nights at the Grand Californian over July 4th with our family and that room was about $450/night. That little 3 day staycation was about $2500, food all in.

We do a big family WDW trip every other year and on alternating years I do a girl's WDW trip with friends and we do a short stay on DLR property. We are skipping WDW this year for obvious reasons. We had planned Aulani over spring break and then Tokyo Disneyland in May. Both trips were cancelled. We would have spent at least $12k between the two, excluding flights.

I really don't want to think about how much of our money Disney gets from vacations every year. Suffice it to say, we have been DL APs since 2001 and have been doing this vacation schedule regularly since about 2009. But, I have been to WDW almost every year since 1998.

 

[sethschroeder]

You really don't understand how much money APs spend in the parks over a year's time, do you? I guarantee you it's more than one family spends on a one week vacation.

We are both. We have DL APs and live 15 min away. We also vacation at WDW almost every year, AND we also spend several nights a year on Disney property at DLR. We spend at least $10-15k annually in the parks and hotels(that's in addition to our pass cost, which is $5200 for our family of 4 at DL). They'd do well to make sure I am happy.

I don't think the "average" family drops $20k per WDW trip...

Disney makes more money on Day Ticket guests than AP guests. There is also likely way more Day Ticket guests than AP holders.

Disney's push is per guest profit daily. You can disagree but they are looking for a higher profit per guest not just simply an increase to total guests.

I think rightly so that Disney expects that they could possibly migrate some of the AP holders to FL speciality tickets and get more per visit out of the guest. So while you might spend a little less on tickets you spend more money in a single day in the park. This potentially is viewed as a win from Disney's perspective.

Now some of this will go on hold for the next 24 months as they try to fill the parks up again but long term zero doubts from me that in the future WDW will be just as over crowded as in the past.

Also every restaurant reservation you take as a AP holder to a fully booked restaurant is not actually lost revenue if you were to not go to the park because Disney can expect to fill your reservation with a day guest. There is a limit at some point but Disney likely has tons of data and models predicting that stuff.

 

[YesterDark]

We spent about $10k at WDW in 2018 on a 10 day trip (split stay BC CL and Contemporary CL w/35% military discount), four 10 day PH w/WP&M and then about $1500 on food.

In 2019, I did a girls trip with 2 friends at Contemporary for 5 nights. This was a cheaper trip since we used Armed Forces Salute tickets (about $280 each) and got a 35% discount on the room, but my portion came to about $2000. That year we also spent 3 nights at the Grand Californian over July 4th with our family and that room was about $450/night. That little 3 day staycation was about $2500, food all in.

We do a big family WDW trip every other year and on alternating years I do a girl's WDW trip with friends and we do a short stay on DLR property. We are skipping WDW this year for obvious reasons. We had planned Aulani over spring break and then Tokyo Disneyland in May. Both trips were cancelled. We would have spent at least $12k between the two, excluding flights.

I really don't want to think about how much of our money Disney gets from vacations every year. Suffice it to say, we have been DL APs since 2001 and have been doing this vacation schedule regularly since about 2009. But, I have been to WDW almost every year since 1998.

I don't care about Disneyland, I don't consider it part of the WDW conversation.

Which one of your WDW trips would you have cancelled if you didn't have an AP or one wasn't available?

The point I'm leading up to is that, non-FL AP's only make sense if you're going at least twice inside a 12 month period and each stay would have at least a 3-5 day hopper. Longer if you're not a park hopper. I'm willing to be a majority of people who are "go to WDW twice a year" types are probably finding a way to go if they didn't have an AP. Is that family/person/group not going to WDW a second time in a year because of an extra $300-500 in ticket costs vs. cost of AP?

The exception to this rule are the people who live in the south and drive down once or twice a month and stay off site two or three nights for a cheap weekend get a way. Those people benefit from an AP.

 

[disneyworldsk]

i think sometimes it's difficult for many of the disunplugged podcasters who don't have children and pay for these vacations and ap to understand that perspective of the value of it regardless of local or not or chapeks offerings or not. two or three kids later these things have serious budgetary issues in a family especially during this time in our lives and spending on entertainment is huge consideration. i think they can only view it as a one person, one adult perspective lacking that family lifestyle. Corey briefly mentioned it but was cut off as he would not pay for his kids and i assume his is paid for...

 

[mamaofsix]

You really don't understand how much money APs spend in the parks over a year's time, do you? I guarantee you it's more than one family spends on a one week vacation.

We are both. We have DL APs and live 15 min away. We also vacation at WDW almost every year, AND we also spend several nights a year on Disney property at DLR. We spend at least $10-15k annually in the parks and hotels(that's in addition to our pass cost, which is $5200 for our family of 4 at DL). They'd do well to make sure I am happy.

I don't think the "average" family drops $20k per WDW trip...

I think there's a misunderstanding here as to what is meant by value per day. Yes, an AP will likely spend more over the course of 365 days than a guest vacationing for only one week. But, the metrics Chapek were referring to are: who spends more on a DAILY basis?

So, that metric would be: who spends more in 365 days - an AP holder, or 365 individual day pass holders? The answer is clearly 365 individual day pass holders.

Someone who only vacations at Disney one week per year is spending far more in 1 day on tickets, dining, merchandise and hotels than the average AP holder would be spending on that same 1 day. Whether or not that ruffles feathers, and whether or not Pete agrees with it, doesn't really matter. It's simple math. Trying to work harder to attract more day pass visitors is a smart move.

 

[DanielleC]

This could be the thing that ends our Disney World affinity for good. If we have to decide weeks or months (or even days) in advance which park we will visit each day, that would pretty much ruin Disney World as a vacation option for us.

And what about park hopping? Does this mean it won't return? How will they handle locals? If somebody decides to pop in after work, would that only be possible if they could get a last minute reservation?

I certainly hope this isn't true.

You need to see the entire interview on The Dow Report. JD wasn't talking exclusively about the park reservation system; he was talking about all the technology that has been implemented. It starts about 5 minutes into the interview.

He specifically mentions the Park Reservation System, Mobile Ordering, Virtual Queues and Contactless Payments prior to saying "...I think they're here to stay". Not it is here to stay, they're here to stay.

The only think the Park Reservation System does is manage capacity. They can get the demographics when someone enters a park from their ticket. With that in mind and from his tone I don't think he was even thinking that the Park Reservation System would be here any longer than they need it because he also said that a lot of the technology changes they have made have been in the project pipeline for a while and the pandemic just pushed them up.

 

[DanielleC]

Everyone needs to consider who Chapek was talking to on the quarterly earnings call. It was primarily the institutional investors. He's trying to paint a rosy picture so all the investors don't go running out and selling their shares in Disney. He's downplaying the AP holders because he needs to show them where their cash is coming from today, not in the next year.

I don't think most AP holders here in FL spend $10,000 a year. I certainly don't. I go up there about 4 times a year for 2 to 3 nights and stay in deluxe resorts. I spend about $1,000 per trip on hotels. I d mostly quick service meals and will do one table service dinner. Maybe I spend $5,500 per year but no where near $10,000 like has been suggested.

They don't need a park reservation system to do anything but manage lower park capacity to allow people to get into the parks right now. They have 49 years of ticketing demographics that will let them manage capacity. I really think right now they are concerned about people paying to stay in a hotel and they can't get in. That's their primary concern hence the reservation system.

 

[OKW Lover]

Just one more data point on this. Local AP holders probably do spend less per day than people who visit for a week and stay at a resort. However, local AP holders probably visit more frequently (ie, more than 7 days over the course of a year) and thus spend more overall.

 

[randumb0]

I'm a local and I spent (just cancelled all of our AP's) a ton of money. I'm a family of 4 and we visited the parks every other week. Occasionally we'd book a hotel.

 

[Jrb1979]

Everyone needs to consider who Chapek was talking to on the quarterly earnings call. It was primarily the institutional investors. He's trying to paint a rosy picture so all the investors don't go running out and selling their shares in Disney. He's downplaying the AP holders because he needs to show them where their cash is coming from today, not in the next year.

I don't think most AP holders here in FL spend $10,000 a year. I certainly don't. I go up there about 4 times a year for 2 to 3 nights and stay in deluxe resorts. I spend about $1,000 per trip on hotels. I d mostly quick service meals and will do one table service dinner. Maybe I spend $5,500 per year but no where near $10,000 like has been suggested.

They don't need a park reservation system to do anything but manage lower park capacity to allow people to get into the parks right now. They have 49 years of ticketing demographics that will let them manage capacity. I really think right now they are concerned about people paying to stay in a hotel and they can't get in. That's their primary concern hence the reservation system.

They will have to keep the reservation system to replace the FP+ system. FP+ is unlikely to come back. When it does it will be some sort of paid system

 

[GeneralTso]

I truly hope WDW changes its system to MaxPass like they use at Disneyland. It just works. Well.

 

[vwlfan]

I haven’t read the whole thread so maybe I’m missing the point. i canceled our AP reluctantly. Although I thought there offer was more fair than not. I liked that they extended the pass to compensate the number of days lost. However that brought my pass eligibility out to re September. We have no plans to go within that extension and if we did I doubt we’d go with the risks involved albeit I hear Disney’s precautions seem to be very good.

I’d have liked it better if they’d given us credit toward a new pass as we expect and hope dearly to go next spring and next August.

 

[MikeTaylor]

The virus was hitting around the end of February when our AP was due to renew... The early lack of consistency throughout the states and the fatigue setting in which leads to carelessness, it just confirmed our decision to not renew. We have an October trip planned just to have something planned, but anything can happen.

 

[MrKnight]

From a business standpoint and realistically speaking, it seems that Disney does not feel that AP holders spend as much in the parks (F&B, merchandise, etc.) as non-AP holders do, this would explain the higher level of reservation availability for non-AP holders who are much more likely to spend more in the parks in a single visit. I can understand how this would upset AP holders, perhaps Disney could offer some special AP-only paid experiences to entice AP holders that are willing to spend more to come back? I can see that part of Pete's argument if that is what he meant, maybe he will clarify this on the next show hopefully?

Now what I do NOT agree with, is AP holders who are NOT willing to go to the parks at all by THEIR personal choice should NOT be expecting some type of concession or "out of park" experience (as Kevin suggested in the last show), that would be unreasonable. All AP holders were already given the option to cancel, if they decided not to cancel while they had the chance then that was their personal choice and the service that they are paying for which is accessing the parks is now available even if its in a limited manner, it is nonetheless now available and all four parks are open and operating.

 

[YesterDark]

Just one more data point on this. Local AP holders probably do spend less per day than people who visit for a week and stay at a resort. However, local AP holders probably visit more frequently (ie, more than 7 days over the course of a year) and thus spend more overall.

I struggle with this, because I'm putting myself in their shoes.

If I were a FL resident with a $400 or $700 pass I can imagine there would be days I spend next to nothing at the parks. Maybe quick service lunch or a coffee from Starbucks?

The "tricky" calculation is if that FL-AP holder is doing sit down dining at the resorts randomly throughout the year. Do they count as an "AP Holder spending money"? If they didn't have the pass would they be eating there anyway? Does having an AP make you more inclined to eat at Disney resorts?

Is the average local AP holder spending money to stay at the resorts often? One person her mentioned once or twice a year for a long weekend or something. Do many do that?

The answer is probably all over the place, and we'll probably never get better than anecdotal information.