I shouldnt be suprised at this point...

MrVisible said:
It's a "Word of Faith" church.

Some beliefs:
*.
*Christ - it is compromised position; you are as much the incarnation as Jesus
*It is the Gospel of Health. Isaiah 53:5 is used as a blanket coverage for the physical healing of every Christian who has enough faith. If you are sick it is because there is sin in your life.
*[http://www.intotruth.org/wof/sayings.html
I have never getten the vibe from Joe that he thinks I'm sick because I am a sinner....I have had a few WOF over the years tell me that I was beng punished for some sin,by having AIDS and that I could be healed f I came back to Jesus...IT makes my sig lne more important though
 
MrVisible said:
It's a "Word of Faith" church.

Some beliefs:
*Predominantly focused on healing
*God operates by spiritual law and is obliged to do the faith filled command or desires by believers.
*Man is a little god. Man was created on terms with equality with God. Man can stand in God's presence without conscious of inferiority.
*Christ - it is compromised position; you are as much the incarnation as Jesus
*It is the Gospel of Health. Isaiah 53:5 is used as a blanket coverage for the physical healing of every Christian who has enough faith. If you are sick it is because there is sin in your life.
*The Gospel of Wealth - God's wills the financial prosperity of every believer. If a believer lives in poverty, he is outside the will of God.

It's a secretive but very prosperous organization, but with some research you can turn up some real howlers. But hey, with an emphasis on worldly wealth at least they're all getting rich, huh? Or at least the pastor is.

OK, so we don't agree on everything (some of the above, but not all). I only looked at what they believe about Jesus.

I'm assuming you got this info directly from the church website. Is that correct?
 
jimmiej said:
OK, so we don't agree on everything (some of the above, but not all). I only looked at what they believe about Jesus.

I'm assuming you got this info directly from the church website. Is that correct?
Of course not. You want info on Scientology, do you go to their website?
 
But hey, if you want real-time access to heaven, it's on their official website! Salvation is just a click away!

http://www.changinglives.org/?m=util&a=show_link&page=gotoheaven

(You do have to sign up for email spam, though. But I guess it'd be heavenly email spam, so that'd be okay. I could live with opening up Outlook Express to some shafts of light and hosannas every so often.)
 

MrVisible said:
Of course not. You want info on Scientology, do you go to their website?

OK, then I take back my quote from earlier...

OK, so we don't agree on everything

...until further notice.

Salvation is just a click away!

I didn't "click" anything & I've been saved for 26+ (Edited: oops, it been 36+ years-1970) years! :thumbsup2
 
I want to make it clear that I'm not disparaging religion in general.

I just think it's hysterical that the guy who's been using the Bible to berate my homosexuality is being taken in by the shoddiest, most transparent type of spiritual hucksterism. :lmao:
 
Islam does not recognize sexual orientation. Islam does forbid anal sex. The muslim part of me is conflicted. The human part of me is not. People are people. Gay people are people, and straight people are people. Relationships are relationships, no mater the individuals involved. Love is love. One of our many names for Allah translates to "the loving one". This compells me to believe that Allah meant for us to love another, because he loves us (regardless of religion). Jesus, one of Allah's prophets, preached love, and the acceptance of the down trodden.

And a word to you people who only see muslims as terrorists, we are not. We are a peaceful people, but we do have extremists. Christianity is not without extremists. You know the KKK? They took Protestantism, and twisted it to suit their hate.
 
Saxsoon said:
Quote:

This was one thing I did want to write about before I left.

How is sex before marriage good? I mean come on, STD's. Please explain that one. :sad2: Not just them take this Sh. . .t. I guess I take it too. I just don't agree the same as them with homosexuality. I won't get into abortion as that deserves a thread of its own. You and several others were especially making me angry equating to what I believe to be hogwash. I know others have done it too, but does that mean you have to stoop to another's level to make a jab.



I believe some in this thread have equated hate speech to saying something someone believes in is silly, stupid, and a lie.

So Discernment, that is an example of Hate Speech. :thumbsup2



Well Saxsoon i can only tell you sex before mariage is not wrong why should it???? If you love someone how does it matter if you have that ring or not... because some silly book says so it don't care and so don't 99% of the rest of the people in my country and most of europe. And as fare as STDs are concerned i have to dissapoint you mariage doesn't protect you from that condoms and common sense on the other hand do.Abortion is a right of every woman and should not be questioned by some zealots. I'm rather surprised by these things i visit the USA quite often and i never encountered people who support these things .. no sex before mariage, no abortion.... they all seemed very European to me (in their opinions) well but i only go to Manhatten, Miami, and LA so perhabs people in the rest of your country are different.

Well this whole thread just strengthens my positon that most religions are not a good thing and only try to brainwash people so they stop thinking for themselves. Well and as i can see they are very good at it. It don't need a church to know what is good or bad or how i have to live my life.

Have a nice day
 
JoeEpcotRocks said:
Your ignorance of the Bible's translation is surpassed only by your baseless accusation of a "hate agenda." :sad2:

If you read the intro to most Bibles they will explain the painstaking care taken in translating the Bible. :sunny:
I would not expect someone so ignorant and hateful to allow that humans (yes, fallible sinful human beings) translated the words. It is impossible that no errors were made.
I think that wrapping your hateful beliefs in Christianity is a bit like putting a prom gown on a pig. It doesnt make the pig a princess and shoving your hate agenda on the rest of us doesnt make you a Christian.
 
JoeEpcotRocks said:
No denomination.

I attend a Bible-based church, called Life Changers International. Our Pastor is Gregory Dickow (who also does some good preaching on TBN).
Isnt this a cult?
 
I used to try to argue this point with people who use the Bible to support homophobia, but no more. It is useless and frankly wasting breath when so many of those people only get passionate about defending the causes they choose to.

The last few weeks I've been bringing up divorce, and no one responds -- I see, IRL, plenty of born again Christians, who accept divorce as a fact of life. They are saddened by if, I'm sure, but they conveniently ignore the overwhelming things that Jesus and Paul said about it. I can only guess that they focus on what Jesus did not ever say about homosexuality and what he did very clearly say about divorce because it is more convienient for them that way.

I don't take the Bible literally. I'm not condemning divorced people. But I am calling people out who say they take the Bible literally, and then pick and choose what they want to listen to.

Lately I have been so into Jesus. I think if Christians listened to what he said -- I mean really listened and really did take his words literally, we'd all be better for it.
 
jimmiej said:
For the umpteenth time, I'm distressed that a Christian minister would preach and teach contrary to the Bible.
Jimmiej,
First, let me just say that I appreciate the way in which you post. Even if I don't always agree with what you say, your spirit of kindness and concern does come through in your posts.

That said, I'll ask you the same question a few others don't want to answer. Do you believe we should stone to death any bride found to not be a virgin? Do you believe that women must be silent in church? Do you believe that women should always have their heads covered?

The Bible clearly speaks on these subjects, and yet the vast majority of Christians, even those who claim to follow the Bible exactly, don't follow what those verses of the bible seem to say. Why?

Well, they look at the Bible and Christian message in total, and find that in totality, the Bible doesn't really require what it seems to require in specific passages. I assume you and your Church do the same things, right?

Christian groups disagree on these subjects. Many believe that you can't get around the biblical requirement for say, woman keeping silent in church. But while those groups disagree with the mainstream churches that find ways around the requirement for women to be silent in church, they accept the fact that other Christian have come - in good faith - to different conclusions.

Can you have that same acceptance? Can you not accept that some other Christian groups can look to the Bible in total and accept homosexuals into the flock, just as you look to the Bible in total and accept things that seem to conflict with the Bible?
 
Even when reading the official website of Joe's Church of the Neverending Sunny Smile, or whatever it was, one can find enough contradictions and even outright lies to make a point with. That site has some serious confusion going on with its historical points, particularly about holidays. My favorite page was the Q&A section on divorce. Sure, the bible says that marrying a divorced woman is a sin, but nevermind that, it's ok, go ahead and do it. :lmao:
 
Lest anyone come away from this thread with a negative opinion of religion in general, I want to share this link that I just came across. Faith In America is an organization dedicated to... well, check out this, from their mission statement.
The mission of Faith In America, Inc. is the emancipation of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people from bigotry disguised as religious truth. The world’s great religious traditions practiced within the United States of America emphasize the love of neighbor as well as the love of God. Compassion, justice, freedom, and respect for the dignity of all people are their most authentic and noble expressions.
This is the kind of response I've always wanted to see from the religious community on this issue. There are plenty of people out there preaching hate and bigotry. Where, I asked, were the people preaching love, compassion, understanding and acceptance?

They're right here.

And it turns out, there's a lot of them.

I can't begin to express the feeling of gratitude that swept over me as I looked over that site. Having seen so many other religious organizations arrayed against me, finding one that's solidly, vocally, lovingly supportive is an astonishing thing. I find myself genuinely moved.
 
JoeEpcotRocks said:
Your ignorance of the Bible's translation is surpassed only by your baseless accusation of a "hate agenda." :sad2:

If you read the intro to most Bibles they will explain the painstaking care taken in translating the Bible. :sunny:
This is a perfect example of how different people can interpret things differently.

Yes, my Bible explains the painstaking care, and that includes reference to "grave defects" found in earlier versions and that "we now possess more ancient manuscripts" and are "better equipped to seek to recover the original wording", etc, etc. Words that convey to me the fact that we have done the best we can with what we have. You seem to take that as proof that every single word is completely accurate. I don't. If previous versions had grave defects, how can we be so sure that there are none now? If "we now possess more ancient manuscripts", how can we be so sure there aren't even more that we don't possess yet, or have been lost forever?

I also read the Saxsoon's link, which, while compelling, also does not prove to me that every word of the Bible is accurate. The link states that
this indicates that the Gospel of Mark would have already been in circulation only about a dozen years after Jesus' death.
Only a dozen years?
They were all written a few years later...
a few years later? Yes, this is a far cry from the 100 years or whatever that was previously brought up in this thread, but gosh, look at how people forget things over the course of a year, a month or even a week? How many of you remember exactly what was said at the beginning of this thread? I don't think the Bible was forged, but I know the pen was put to paper not by God's hand, but by humans who are fallible. I simply cannot believe that there is no chance that anyone could have made a mistake, forgotten or misinterpreted something.

The link goes on...
...could not possibly have been invented in a single generation and then successfully passed off as true on the people of that very generation who knew better. That would have been as impossible as for a writer today to fabricate a story of an unsuccessful Japanese attempt to invade California in the early months of World War II, to locate the invasion landing at Long Beach on December 27th of 1941, to invent speeches and events which were supposed to have happened among the residents of the city due to the invasion, and then to have repelled the invasion by some genius of strategy, and attempt to pass the story off as true on those very people while they were still alive to say otherwise! The New Testament writings could have had no better chance of survival than that if their contents were not true
Sorry, but they've gone a little too far here. What was the literacy rate in the time of Christ? I'm asking honestly, because I really have no idea, but I'm certain it was quite low. I find it ridiculous to compare the accuracy of an ancient document to one today, simply based on the fact that "people accepted it". How can people accept a document they cannot read?

Now, I'm not trying to discredit the Bible, here. I am Christian and I believe that it is generally accurate. But common sense tells me there is no real proof of that. That's why it's called faith. That's why I don't preach to those who believe differently, and speak out against those who do. People of other religions (or no religion) have just as much faith in theirs as we do in ours, and their beliefs deserve just as much respect as ours.
 
Am I just talking to myself? Do all the more conservative Christians have me on their ignore list?

How do you choose homosexuality and not divorce to make a big deal out of? You fight for legislation that suits your anti-gay (pro-family, so you say) agenda; why aren't you fighting for legislation that would make divorce illegal?

Keeping in mind, I don't think that should be done. But how do you make that distinction. You want the government involved in some things, but something Jesus specifically said -- you don't think that's important?
 
@auntpolly they don't answer you because they can't so they ignore it. They would never admit that there is something flawed in their views and arguments.

sad really sad
 
salmoneous said:
Jimmiej,
That said, I'll ask you the same question a few others don't want to answer. Do you believe we should stone to death any bride found to not be a virgin?
Where does ths come from?The Tanakh or OT does not teach a Virgin should be stoned..In fact pre- marital sex s not specifcally forbidden by Jewsh law..Adultery is but not*fornication* or premarital sex..To the poster who mentioned waiting until marriage so you don'e get STD's well wated until marriage and got the mother of all STD"S waiting until marriage does not make you safe from those things
 
JennyMominRI said:
To the poster who mentioned waiting until marriage so you don'e get STD's well wated until marriage and got the mother of all STD"S waiting until marriage doe snot make you safe from those things

Jenny i totally agree with you, you seem to be a very wise women...
 


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