I miss the Maelstrom ride so much.

[circus4u]

I think we've officially hit this point...

I have to smile at this one! My wife and I made our first trip back to WDW a couple years ago after a hiatus of 20+ years. This was our first trip without our kids, grandchildren, or great grand children. We enjoyed ourselves so much, that we made four more trips within the year. Besides seeing things in a different perspective, it seemed my wife was "touring" the restrooms quite frequently. So frequently, I think I knew the location of every restroom in all the parks and Downtown Disney. About the third trip, rather than sit patiently outside and wait for her, I started taking pictures of all the restroom signs. So many pictures and what to do with them! I put them together and had a photo book printed at Walmart and gave it to her for Christmas that year. Not knowing how she would react, I figured that I had lived a long and happy life already, so what the heck, I wrapped it up and proudly presented it to her on Christmas Eve with all the family present. I am happy to report that I still have all my appendages and am still happily married!

I must say though, I received a lot of strange looks as I took the photos. At least, I am not on the "Officially Band for Life from WDW" list as a pervert!

Lest I get called out for "what does this post have to do with rumors and news," maybe I can relate it to the discussions that anyone can have fun at WDW, with or without kids. You make it what it is; I chose fun.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I think that Disney is going to fall in between 2 ice floes with this Frozen makeover. Neither Epcot purists nor Frozen fans will be pleased with the attraction.

It's a tremendously popular film. Does anyone really think that a rather slow and unexciting boat ride is going to capture even 1/100th of the excitement and emotion of the movie? I doubt it. I haven't seen Frozen but I gather from some youtube clips that there are some exciting action scenes where things are zipping along at a pretty good speed. But you're not going to experience anything like that. There are going to be some new AAs and a lot of ... flat screen TVs showing clips of the film as the boats slowly trundle by. Not one single piece of the physical infrastructure of the ride (except for the "extra room") will have been conceived, designed or built with the movie in mind. Instead they're taking one of the slowest and least exciting rides in all of WDW and trying to pretend that changing the set decor and AAs and piping a different soundtrack into the speakers will somehow reproduce the feeling of their biggest hit movie of the last two decades or so.

Disney is putting the boots to the concept of World Showcase as an edutaining world's fair, in order to cash in with a really quick, and really lame and inappropriate ripoff of their own hit movie's popularity.

 

[circus4u]

I think that Disney is going to fall in between 2 ice floes with this Frozen makeover. Neither Epcot purists nor Frozen fans will be pleased with the attraction.

My wife is already excited about the new lady's restroom!!

 

[Darkwing981]

I think that Disney is going to fall in between 2 ice floes with this Frozen makeover. Neither Epcot purists nor Frozen fans will be pleased with the attraction.

It's a tremendously popular film. Does anyone really think that a rather slow and unexciting boat ride is going to capture even 1/100th of the excitement and emotion of the movie? I doubt it. I haven't seen Frozen but I gather from some youtube clips that there are some exciting action scenes where things are zipping along at a pretty good speed. But you're not going to experience anything like that. There are going to be some new AAs and a lot of ... flat screen TVs showing clips of the film as the boats slowly trundle by. Not one single piece of the physical infrastructure of the ride (except for the "extra room") will have been conceived, designed or built with the movie in mind. Instead they're taking one of the slowest and least exciting rides in all of WDW and trying to pretend that changing the set decor and AAs and piping a different soundtrack into the speakers will somehow reproduce the feeling of their biggest hit movie of the last two decades or so.

Disney is putting the boots to the concept of World Showcase as an edutaining world's fair, in order to cash in with a really quick, and really lame and inappropriate ripoff of their own hit movie's popularity.

Which pretty much means they've sold out their core principle of creating genuine moments/memories for park guest all in the name of quick cash grabs. I knew that Iger fella was no good.

Well I'm glad I got to experience Maelstrom when I went to WDW a couple years ago. If they wanted to incorporate Frozen, they could've updated the film with Frozen characters highlighting Norwegian culture/folklore. JMHO

 

[skier_pete]

Disney is putting the boots to the concept of World Showcase as an edutaining world's fair, in order to cash in with a really quick, and really lame and inappropriate ripoff of their own hit movie's popularity.

So you haven't seen the movie and you haven't seen the ride (since no one has) but you are certain the ride will be a lame ripoff?

Well I'm glad I got to experience Maelstrom when I went to WDW a couple years ago. If they wanted to incorporate Frozen, they could've updated the film with Frozen characters highlighting Norwegian culture/folklore. JMHO

I agree with this. I was very much hoping that this is what they would do, use the characters of Frozen to tell the story of Norway. Unfortunately that is not what we are getting. However, I will choose to reserve judgement until they actually, you know, open the ride.

I am not a big proponent of the general talk on here is that everything Disney is doing or is ever going to do is going to turn out bad. Even though the evidence in general is that the vast majority of attractions they put out are quite good. For instance, I don't get why there is still a lot of hate directed at NFL. The rides/attractions/dining are all excellently themed and high quality. People whine about the 7DMT because its not long enough and not thrilling enough. It's a Fantasyland ride designed to allow everyone to ride it. It's a beautiful ride and a lot of fun, yet people trot it out as an example of what's wrong with Disney. I get really sick of that.

Anyways, I am going to wait to declare whether the Frozen expansion is bad or good until after I've ridden it. Or at least after it opens.

 

[Andrew015]

Even though the evidence in general is that the vast majority of attractions they put out are quite good. For instance, I don't get why there is still a lot of hate directed at NFL. The rides/attractions/dining are all excellently themed and high quality. People whine about the 7DMT because its not long enough and not thrilling enough. It's a Fantasyland ride designed to allow everyone to ride it. It's a beautiful ride and a lot of fun, yet people trot it out as an example of what's wrong with Disney. I get really sick of that.

Net gains in NFL were a well-themed, 90 second long kiddie coaster, a very average, off-the-shelf Omni-Mover ride, two character M&G's (we'll gladly take pictures of your DD for $20 a pop), a well-themed sit-down restaurant with average food and a quick food service stop. Oh, and of course, a new gift shop. While I do agree that the theming in NFL is very good, the substance when broken down to its most basic form is lacking (especially considering that it took longer to build NFL than it did to build all of EPCOT in its entirety). I have a hard time buying the notion that "evidence in general supports what they put out is quite good". Compared to Harry Potterville, not so much.

My issue with NFL, however, isn't so much with "what we got", but more so, with what we "didn't get" everywhere else. With the other three parks on life support, MK should have been the last park on the list slated for investment.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Net gains in NFL were a well-themed, 90 second long kiddie coaster, a very average, off-the-shelf Omni-Mover ride, two character M&G's (we'll gladly take pictures of your DD for $20 a pop), a well-themed sit-down restaurant with average food and a quick food service stop. Oh, and of course, a new gift shop. While I do agree that the theming in NFL is very good, the substance when broken down to its most basic form is lacking (especially considering that it took longer to build NFL than it did to build all of EPCOT in its entirety). I have a hard time buying the notion that "evidence in general supports what they put out is quite good". Compared to Harry Potterville, not so much.

My issue with NFL, however, isn't so much with "what we got", but more so, with what we "didn't get" everywhere else. With the other three parks on life support, MK should have been the last park on the list slated for investment.

Right to the bone... As always...

And Pete,

I don't support any notion that "everything Disney is/will do is bad"...far from it.

I'm scared of the recent trend to let short term merch/upsells influence capital construction...

The reason that rides like space, haunted mansion, and pirates impress me is that have managed to withstand time and pop culture shifts to stay important...

Frozen land... And even NFL...we're built in part to sell/ fuel the Bibbidi bobbity boutique!

That shocking... Whatever suits came up with the idea that princess will Always Be this kinda draw?
That's a fools take.

Times and preferences will change...as they always do.

They are able to make
Another billion in tickets off a marvel franchise in the next two weeks...guaranteed.

I like comic books and superhero movies...no question. But do I think this train can chug along forever?
Heck no.

So what happens to this boat ride when girls "let it go"...

And they will?

It's philosophical issue...

For now...

 

[skier_pete]

Agree the timing of it is way too long...pretty much Disney's SOP. Disney drags things out to point of absurdity.

But I think the quality is very high for what it is - which you listed out very well (and you were too generous on the net gain- you lost a dark ride as you gained one). The coaster is more than a kiddie coaster, though IMO. I didn't hear many people complaining when Harry Potter land originally opened and all you got out of it was ONE new ride (albiet certainly better than 7DMT) TWO rethemed existing rides and a bunch of shops and a restaurant.

Again, you may not like what they chose to build, but that is not Disney's fault that they didn't make YOU happy. The Belle show is not appealing to most adults (I would never do it again until I have grandkids), but not why its there. You can criticize their choices of attractions as being to tame and not cutting edge. (I will join in with you there - except that I thought RSR was a recent attraction Disney put out that was just AMAZING.) But again a lot of people use this as a knock of quality against Disney or "cheapness". I think they made specific choices. They put rides into Fantasyland - these rides have to appeal to VERY YOUNG kids. Put a thrill ride into Fantasyland is a mistake they are wise not to make. Even something like Pirates or Haunted Mansion to me is too close to a "thrill" ride to be in FL. (Snow Whites Scary adventures still scared my daughter at 8 such that she wouldn't go on it...probably part of the reason it got the axe!) Not sure how exactly you make a child's ride "cutting edge", but that's another topic.

Now they are putting rides into AK for Avatar. These rides better NOT be kiddie rides. I will be first in line to criticize if the Avatar simulator isn't anything but state of the art. Same thing when they get around to Star Wars in DHS. You are appealing here to more of an older kid (I'd say generally target is 8+) and even adults. Again, I expect a very cutting edge ride (or hopefully RIDES but won't hold my breath).

 

[Andrew015]

Again, you may not like what they chose to build, but that is not Disney's fault that they didn't make YOU happy.

Actually, it is their fault. You may have meant to say something to the effect of "Disney can't please everyone", which I understand and agree with. Again, it's a shame that Disney's sole reason for being as of the present is to cater to the Bippity Boppity movement as pointed out earlier by Lockedout.

The Belle show is not appealing to most adults (I would never do it again until I have grandkids), but not why its there. You can criticize their choices of attractions as being to tame and not cutting edge. (I will join in with you there - except that I thought RSR was a recent attraction Disney put out that was just AMAZING.) But again a lot of people use this as a knock of quality against Disney or "cheapness". I think they made specific choices. They put rides into Fantasyland - these rides have to appeal to VERY YOUNG kids. Put a thrill ride into Fantasyland is a mistake they are wise not to make. Even something like Pirates or Haunted Mansion to me is too close to a "thrill" ride to be in FL. (Snow Whites Scary adventures still scared my daughter at 8 such that she wouldn't go on it...probably part of the reason it got the axe!) Not sure how exactly you make a child's ride "cutting edge", but that's another topic.

Pete - You're putting words in my mouth. I've never said that a Tower-of-Terror style ride should have been placed in NFL. Rather, my argument is that 1.) For the time and money spent, there isn't much substance to show for it and 2.) that money would have been much better spent elsewhere around property (anywhere but MK).

It's not unreasonable to suggest that 4 hours could be spent in NFL as follows:

• 2 hours waiting in line for 7D
• Another hour waiting to be seated for BOG (despite having ADR's)
• Another 45 actually eating in BOG
• 5 minutes walking onto Little Mermaid
• And last but not least - ~8 minutes of actual attraction time (6 and a half of which is the Omni-Mover)

As well themed as the area might be, the above itinerary doesn't exactly light a fire underneath me.

Briefly circling back to your notion of catering to the kids first and foremost, it's interesting to take notice in another shift happening in Orlando: Disney is done building "Kiddie resorts" like AOA (one might argue they're done building resorts altogether). Rather, Disney is now focused on two things: 1.) Building DVC, which is marketed in large part as an adult-oriented timeshare (take a romantic trip to Aulani, or enjoy a glass of champagne in your "plunge pool") or 2.) the 3rd party route like Four Seasons, another adult-oriented resort. At some point, they're going to need to build something in the parks that isn’t focused on selling $200 princess makeovers or made-in-China toys.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You're on today, Brother Bear

 

[Andrew015]

You're on today, Brother Bear

It doesn't happen often, but even a blind squirrel can find one every once and a while...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It doesn't happen often, but even a blind squirrel can find one every once and a while...

...a fast pass + to mine train and a lunch res at be out guest?

 

[Planogirl]

Actually, it is their fault. You may have meant to say something to the effect of "Disney can't please everyone", which I understand and agree with. Again, it's a shame that Disney's sole reason for being as of the present is to cater to the Bippity Boppity movement as pointed out earlier by Lockedout.



Pete - You're putting words in my mouth. I've never said that a Tower-of-Terror style ride should have been placed in NFL. Rather, my argument is that 1.) For the time and money spent, there isn't much substance to show for it and 2.) that money would have been much better spent elsewhere around property (anywhere but MK).

It's not unreasonable to suggest that 4 hours could be spent in NFL as follows:

• 2 hours waiting in line for 7D
• Another hour waiting to be seated for BOG (despite having ADR's)
• Another 45 actually eating in BOG
• 5 minutes walking onto Little Mermaid
• And last but not least - ~8 minutes of actual attraction time (6 and a half of which is the Omni-Mover)

As well themed as the area might be, the above itinerary doesn't exactly light a fire underneath me.

Briefly circling back to your notion of catering to the kids first and foremost, it's interesting to take notice in another shift happening in Orlando: Disney is done building "Kiddie resorts" like AOA (one might argue they're done building resorts altogether). Rather, Disney is now focused on two things: 1.) Building DVC, which is marketed in large part as an adult-oriented timeshare (take a romantic trip to Aulani, or enjoy a glass of champagne in your "plunge pool") or 2.) the 3rd party route like Four Seasons, another adult-oriented resort. At some point, they're going to need to build something in the parks that isn’t focused on selling $200 princess makeovers or made-in-China toys.

Your whole post is great but this last paragraph is such a good point that I felt startled. They are definitely tilting towards the adults when it comes to resorts! The parks don't make sense when you consider this with them even "kiddiefying" World Showcase.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Your whole post is great but this last paragraph is such a good point that I felt startled. They are definitely tilting towards the adults when it comes to resorts! The parks don't make sense when you consider this with them even "kiddiefying" World Showcase.

You guys (respectfully) are reading it wrong...

That is not a movement towards "adults"... It is a straight movement toward money. Pure money. Period.

I don't want to jack the thread... But a couple of recent projects/ decisions illustrate it... And the whole history of DVC.

Another time and thread...

 

[Josh Hendy]

So you haven't seen the movie and you haven't seen the ride (since no one has) but you are certain the ride will be a lame ripoff?

...

To quote everyone in Star Wars ... I have a bad feeling about this. I know that the movie has some exciting action in it. I know that Maelstrom is a very slow ride with practically no thrills, except a surprise backwards drop that lasts about 3 seconds. Whatever the ride is, it won't be exciting.

What makes me think that the rest, the storytelling part, won't be all that well done is from the statement that they'll be incorporating video screens with scenes from the movie. That has "lame" written all over it. When Universal incorporated video into the queue for Harry Potter they used it in at least 2 very cool ways. First as a neat effect reproducing the talking paintings. But especially with the magical "invisible 3D" effect or whatever it's called, for which they paid the actors to shoot new footage. Not to mention the groundbreaking combination of motion and video on their actual rides.

I may be wrong but I don't think Disney intends to break any technological ground on this one. One reason why is that they didn't mention anything like that in any announcement that I'm aware of. They just said "AAs and video clips". They didn't mention the words innovative, stunning, groundbreaking, original, world-class, leading-edge or anything along those lines.

If you don't like the word "lame" you can call it "old school" or "workmanlike" ... or "as exciting and groundbreaking as Gran Fiesta/Rio del Tiempo".

 

[Collin WK]

Lots of people did the ride, as evident by the wait times that I typically experienced. Of those folks, probably 50% or less stayed for the movie. Regardless of whether or not you did, the fact remains that the overall Maelstrom attraction was popular and beloved by many. This wasn't about removing a dying ride in need of "help". Rather, it is a blatant, short-sighted attempt to capitalize on the Frozen craze (they're a few years late to that dance, by the way - good topic for another thread), and in the process, they're removing a classic attraction and replacing it with the round peg (Frozen) in a square hole (Norway Pavilion of WS). As already mentioned by Tonka, Frozen has no place in EPCOT, especially WS.

Couldn't have said it better. At this point they have sort of missed the boat for frozen at least the "major" portion of it. People are going to like that movie forever, but disney just deciding to throw it over an existing ride is beyond me. As someone who really like the ride I don't see why they just couldn't have added another ride to that pavilion and saved Maelstrom. They are already adding on to the pavilion for the meet and greet area so why not add the ride in the same place. Don't get me wrong I'm against putting frozen in the pavilion, but at least it would have saved an attraction that has continuously become more popular and ik this first hand as I have waited in that line and seen the ride go from a walk on to a 30-60 minute wait on crowded days.

 

[BLTLDZ]

Me too OP. I get sad every time I think about it...was one of my faves

 

[gizzoid]

Wouldn't it be cool if they made a theme park with all the old "retired"rides in them!

 

[rteetz]

Wouldn't it be cool if they made a theme park with all the old "retired"rides in them!

Typically rides are demolished for a reason. While it may be cool for a while rides are supposed to evolve with time not stay the same the parks are not museums as the Marty Sklar once said. With that said I would have loved to ride horizons once to see what it was like.

 

[skier_pete]

Your whole post is great but this last paragraph is such a good point that I felt startled. They are definitely tilting towards the adults when it comes to resorts! The parks don't make sense when you consider this with them even "kiddiefying" World Showcase.

You guys (respectfully) are reading it wrong...

That is not a movement towards "adults"... It is a straight movement toward money. Pure money. Period..

I get tired of these circular arguments about Maelstrom- so I'm going to go on this subject...lol is exactly right..it's all about bottom dollar.

That said - and this is ranging far afield from Maelstrom...that's exactly how it works. The resorts are sold to ADULTS. And DVC is all about taking profits up front. Why make money on your hotel for 50 years when you can make all the profit up front. Think about that each studio room at the Poly they are taking in about $1,500,000 in sales. What would they earn from renting it for a year?

The Parks are sold for the KIDS, or at least for parents bringing in the KIDS. That's why they crank Frozen in where it doesn't belong.