I love credit cards so much!

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speaking of the CF, were u able to activate 5x on all your cards? someone told me Chase forced it down to 1 card only.
All 4 of mine say activated. That’s 2 for me and 2 for my wife. I have only spent on 1 so far this quarter so I can’t specifically say it’s working yet but I don’t expect any issues.
 
Right. You can earn a bunch of UR points, but you can earn even more of every other currency.

I have a theory that the ease of use of UR points and the fear of being beyond 5/24 and locked out of those cards makes everyone hoard and stay in the system. Because like I said, the URs I would theoretically earn from category spend would be a rounding error in the grand scheme of all the other bonuses I've earned in the meantime.

I just don't like MS on Amex. It seems like there are far too frequently issues with bonuses or points posting, and they go through your transactions when that happens. Plus I don't really have anywhere left that doesn't report L3 data or a way to liquidate the GCs. Although Venmo still works, as I discovered recently, even though their terms specifically call out peer-to-peer payments.

Double checking my understanding that ...only UR points can be transferred to SW. I started going for UR points since we fly SW many times a year so the RR points and CP are a real $$ saver. So the ability to transfer points to SW was key in my decision to accumulate UR points
 
Double checking my understanding that ...only UR points can be transferred to SW. I started going for UR points since we fly SW many times a year so the RR points and CP are a real $$ saver. So the ability to transfer points to SW was key in my decision to accumulate UR points
UR points transfer to SW at 1:1. Marriott points also transfer to SW (and under the new program will transfer at 2.4:1 when transferred in 60k increments). I’ve built my stash of SW with a combo of SW cards, UR cards, and Marriott points (although recently I’ve hoarded my Marriott points since I have a plethora of SW).
 
I’m in the camp of just hitting my MSRs via organic spend. I know we can run about $25k+ annually thru credit cards. I will attempt to use a category bonus while hitting the MSR (for example, when I signed up for an AMEX BGR, I bought a lot of gift cards at gas stations to max my MRs on that particular signup). However once the MSR is done, that card never sees the light of day again (except for a once every 6 month charge to avoid closure due to inactivity). My theory is that signup bonuses are worth 15%-40% back and no category bonus can compete.

My one exception to this is Chase Freedom as we are back in the UR game and the 7.5% return of the CF category of the quarter. This has enabled me to slightly slow my roll with Chase and avoid the eyes of shutdown.
I probably should acknowledge that once you are sitting on large point balances your attitude can change on things too. I often forget we have people working on their 1st Card here and people working on their 80th and everything in between. Our large balances afford me the ability to take a different approach than if I were chasing a specific redemption in the immediate future.
 

UR points transfer to SW at 1:1. Marriott points also transfer to SW (and under the new program will transfer at 2.4:1). I’ve built my stash of SW with a combo of SW cards, UR cards, and Marriott points (although recently I’ve hoarded my Marriott points since I have a plethora of SW).

Thanks....I had build up SW points(not as many as you...lol)..but used a bunch to fly to CA.... going to stick with my plan for Chase cards..the rest of this year
Opened CIP in May...will apply for the CSR or CSP in Aug/Sep....then CIC in December..
For my husband refered him for the CIP in July ...will refer him for either the CSR or CSP in November
 
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Now wait, I'm going to challenge this idea since I think it's a good topic for discussion. Wouldn't minimizing your lost opportunity costs mean you should always be putting all of your spend on new cards and ignoring category bonuses?

It's great that Plastiq earns you 3x UR on your CIP. Let's say my rent is $2,000 per month. With Plastiq's fee, running the charge will cost me $2,050. I'll earn 6,150 URs, worth $61.50 in cash, or $92.25 redeemed through Chase's travel portal after transferring to the CSR.

However! One must consider the costs of doing this.

First, I need a CIP. That costs me $95/year. Next, I need a CSR. It's true that after year 1, you can be up $150 due to the double travel credit, but that's only if you cancel the card. If you keep the card year after year, you're in the hole $150 annually. You'll have to pay that $2k rent 3 times before you make up the fees on your card. If your rent or mortgage is lower, it takes longer to make that up, but in our hypothetical analysis this isn't important.

Or, instead of trying to do all that mental gymnastics for a few extra URs, what if you just signed up for new cards? Let's take Amex. It's notoriously difficult to MS on Amex cards, and it's only getting harder, so it makes sense to put large organic spend on Amex cards. Let's say you're interested in Schwab cashout. This is easiest because we can do a dollar-for-dollar comparison.

The Schwab Platinum requires a hefty $5k spend for 60k MR points and a $550 annual fee. Our MSR will be met on Plastiq alone after 3 months. This will net 66,150 MRs after the bonus posts. Schwab cashouts need to be made in 1k MR increments, so we can cash out those 66k MR at 1.25cpp and end up with $825. Less our $550 AF, we're up $275.

But the Schwab card was just the beginning. Now that we have the card we need, we can get the Schwab train rolling and get a new card every month. There are so many MR cards that either have the AF waived or no AF. You can use just Plastiq to meet the minimum spend on those cards and cash out literally thousands of dollars. Or you can earn $92.25 in travel. The Schwab example isn't even totally necessary. The 60k MR (or 75k or 100k from the Vanilla Platinum) is worth many times more than the 3x UR through Plastiq. And that's just the beginning.

In my eyes, the missed opportunity cost of trying to reign in category spending just for Chase is huge. I'm interested to hear other's thoughts about this. I realize I'm in an extreme minority, and most people talking about churning are actually more or less just talking about Chase churning. But once I started to think about how much further I could go, how many more trips I could take, how many more points I could amass, and how I could turn a lot of those points into pure cash, trying to do category spend became worthless. The points I would earn from category spending are a rounding error on the number of points I've amassed. That's not a brag either, by the way - it's just reality.

I remember a similar discussion on /r/churning, and I’m not saying I disagree, only that I have a different churning style that my reluctant P2 wife and I are comfortable with.

We live in San Francisco, where cost of living is high, and believe me I’ve thought often that if I threw our monthly expenses towards new cards only, we could probably hit MSRs on one or two new cards each month. But just because we could, doesn’t mean we want to sign up for that many new cards each year notwithstanding velocity limits imposed by the different card issuers.

More specifically, take for example the CIP, yes it has a 2.5% fee on Plastiq, but I view the card as a moneymaker because as long as Plastiq codes 3x, I’m getting more value back than I put in, and I view this transaction as setting aside some money into our vacation fund every month. And yes, the CIP has a $95 AF, but it’s referability has been kind to me and just one referral more than covers the AF. (As a general point, my wife is not a fan of AFs, so we math it out when AFs post whether keeping the card is worth the fee.)

And I’m not ignoring MRs, I’m just trying to balance getting new Amex cards with rounding out the Chase cards I want in my wallet while I’m still under 5/24. Combined with wanting to sign up only when I can get the best offer on a new Amex because of its one bonus per lifetime rule generally, I’ve been a bit slow going through the Amex cards. I value MRs, but they’re just not as flexible or as good a value to me as URs. I’ve got a stash of about 220k MRs, and will get around to hitting the Schwab Plat, Biz Plat, Biz Green, BGR, Green, ED, BBP (and am I missing anything?) eventually. Not to mention P2 who hasn’t hit any MR cards of her own yet.
 
Thanks....I had build up SW points(not as many as you...lol)..but used a bunch to fly to CA....think going to stick with my plan for Chase cards..the rest of this year
Opened CIP in May...will apply for the CSR or CSP in Aug/Sep....then CIC in December..
For my husband refered him for the CIP in July ...will refer him for either the CSR or CSP in November
In 2 player mode you have a great plan. It is so much easier (less stressful) to be a slow churner now with all the rules and restrictions. Back in 2015 and prior no strategy was needed. You could get any card at anytime...if you were debating between 2 cards the answer was get both! Of course the slow churner’s issue is that it’s hard to generate enough points for multiple trips each year on a slow churner pace...
 
If dining out requires you to pay at a restaurant or cafe, then yes that earns 3x UR. What usually codes for 3x? Restaurants, including sit down, take out, fast food and drive thru; Starbucks and cafes; bars; bakeries; food trucks; @amalone1013 's vending machine at work; I've even noticed the concession stand at my local movie theater codes as dining.
Also the vending machine at the Lincoln Airport Lounge :thumbsup2
 
I remember a similar discussion on /r/churning

Yeah, it was probably me. It comes up every so often when someone asks about staying under 5/24 or going off to the races. My point of view is generally met with a lot of downvotes. I'm not saying there should be gatekeeping for churning, that's dumb, but I'm saying, maybe it should be renamed /r/chasechurning. It gets hard to pick out useful data points for things once you get far enough down the line.

You could get any card at anytime...if you were debating between 2 cards the answer was get both!

These were the days when my very first churning card was a Chase Amtrak card. It didn't matter, 5/24 wasn't a thing yet. Good times.
 
Yeah, it was probably me. It comes up every so often when someone asks about staying under 5/24 or going off to the races. My point of view is generally met with a lot of downvotes. I'm not saying there should be gatekeeping for churning, that's dumb, but I'm saying, maybe it should be renamed /r/chasechurning. It gets hard to pick out useful data points for things once you get far enough down the line.



These were the days when my very first churning card was a Chase Amtrak card. It didn't matter, 5/24 wasn't a thing yet. Good times.
BoA cards were a fun hobby for awhile. I got 2x AICPA, 2x ABA, and probably 4 or 5 MLB cards. These days those offers would be a hard pass...back then...who cares, what’s another card? Ahh I miss those days.
 
Yeah, it was probably me. It comes up every so often when someone asks about staying under 5/24 or going off to the races. My point of view is generally met with a lot of downvotes. I'm not saying there should be gatekeeping for churning, that's dumb, but I'm saying, maybe it should be renamed /r/chasechurning. It gets hard to pick out useful data points for things once you get far enough down the line.



These were the days when my very first churning card was a Chase Amtrak card. It didn't matter, 5/24 wasn't a thing yet. Good times.

heh, churning is a pretty wide category... probably call it /r/under524churning and /r/over524churning lol.
Im currently still under 5/24 so im slowly progressing... once i hit over 5/24, ill probably do what churning means(and what u mean) and do the AA gravy train.

everyone does it differently i guess.
 
Exactly, my point :goodvibes in your shoes it would not make any sense to go for the UR points over the 5% savings. $25 saved now is better than $30 or so stashed in UR later. Granted, I am likely an extreme outlier on purchasing Disney GCs as far as examples go. Bt I know there are a few here than can give me a run for my money on their Disney trip expenses :P We will be purchasing a LOT of Disney GCs this year. Between the Japan Adventure By Disney trip and our DVC dues alone it will be $33,000 in Disney gift cards. With the Redcard I'd be able to save $1,650. 5x UR points on that will get me $2,475 in my CSR to use to travel purchases at the very least. We do use our UR points for either travel purchases or transfers to airline where I often get better value than 1.5 per point. Staying under 5/24 is not an option for us either. Maxing the UR bonus categories and piling up the UR points is what works best for us.

Each of us has our own unique situations with regards to cards we hold, 5/24 status, travel goals etc. I know we get a regular influx of newbies on this thread and who knows how many that don't post but do lurk *waves hello to the lurkers* I've always felt one the great things about this thread is how we share our diverse travels goals, point collecting strategies, to be or not to be LOL/24 etc. and the why some of us do what we do. I think it helps others that are newer to the game help formulate what will work best for them. Even for those of us who have been doing this for quite some time may find value by learning what others do and why when it is different than what they do and why. It may serve them down the line for a unique situation. I know it has for me.

For the record, my everyday non bonus spend was on the SPG but I think I may be moving towards the Amex Blue biz for everyday non bonus spend after August since it is 2x MR. I figure I can hit the UR bonuses pretty easily with Disney GCs and don't need to add more by using the CFU. So, I think I will the Amex Blue biz to diversify. Would love to hear anyone else's thoughts on what they plan to do for everyday spend and why.
Very interesting discussion. I have the CSR, CFU and Freedom. Because of this combo, collecting UR makes sense for ME. I use the CFU as my daily driver and transfer my UR to the CSR. I also have the Amex Plat and BBP. I rarely put spend on my Amex cards because I don't care for Amex's anti churning policies. Even when you are putting legitimate spend on an AMEX card, it seems that you have to "fight" for your bonus. I experienced this last year when I got the 100k MR Amex Platinum through the leaked link on Reddit. Even though I had all organic spend on my card, Amex "froze" my points (even the ones unrelated to the bonus on the Plat), and it took an email to the EO and a CFPB complaint for them to release my points. I nearly missed the window to transfer my points to Aeroplan and book our Banff/Lake Louise trip.

I do love Amex's customer service. I actually prefer it over Chase's. But we are all in this game to earn points and most importantly, be able to USE them. If a company is limiting your ability to use the points you earn by denying, "freezing" or removing them based on vague assertions of "gaming" , why bother with them?
 
@striker1064 and @Albort - just to add to my earlier post, I have thought many times that Plastiq earning 3x on the CIP is a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, it allows me to pay for our biggest monthly expenses at a small cost that is more than made up for by the rewards earned. But as long as Plastiq earns 3x on the CIP, my biggest expenses are tied up on the CIP because I don’t want to shift it towards MSR on new cards, even though on paper the value of that MSR spend > ~0.5x extra rewards over the Plastiq fee. If Plastiq stops coding 3x, my strategy will definitely change to find a way to maximize thousands of dollars in monthly expenses that have been freed up, and that may very well be towards MSRs on more new cards.
 
@striker1064 and @Albort - just to add to my earlier post, I have thought many times that Plastiq earning 3x on the CIP is a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, it allows me to pay for our biggest monthly expenses at a small cost that is more than made up for by the rewards earned. But as long as Plastiq earns 3x on the CIP, my biggest expenses are tied up on the CIP because I don’t want to shift it towards MSR on new cards, even though on paper the value of that MSR spend > ~0.5x extra rewards over the Plastiq fee. If Plastiq stops coding 3x, my strategy will definitely change to find a way to maximize thousands of dollars in monthly expenses that have been freed up, and that may very well be towards MSRs on more new cards.

as much as i hate mentioned this, the whole plastiq+CIP with the tesla buying, it makes sense. u spend $1500 in fees, but thats enough for 2 F class ticket to Japan and back worth over at least $20k. the value is there imo.
If all else fail, u can always redeem them back for cash back and still come out ahead.

Going for MSR only, u need a high budget though. i can only see this working for those who spend thousands a month.
 
BoA cards were a fun hobby for awhile. I got 2x AICPA, 2x ABA, and probably 4 or 5 MLB cards. These days those offers would be a hard pass...back then...who cares, what’s another card? Ahh I miss those days.

I remember someone on /r/churning got eleven different MLB cards... and that is why we now have the 2/3/4 rule. At least you can still actually churn and hold multiple BoA cards though. And weirdly, the rule doesn't apply to biz cards, probably because there are so few good ones.

heh, churning is a pretty wide category... probably call it /r/under524churning and /r/over524churning lol.
Im currently still under 5/24 so im slowly progressing... once i hit over 5/24, ill probably do what churning means(and what u mean) and do the AA gravy train.

everyone does it differently i guess.

Just don't call it grAAvy.

If a company is limiting your ability to use the points you earn by denying, "freezing" or removing them based on vague assertions of "gaming" , why bother with them?

You mean like Chase shutting people down after a "periodic review"?
 
On the one hand, it allows me to pay for our biggest monthly expenses at a small cost that is more than made up for by the rewards earned.

This is just where we differ in the points we like best, I guess. I totally get paying a small fee to earn rewards. My thinking is why would I earn less rewards when I could earn more?
 
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I remember someone on /r/churning got eleven different MLB cards... and that is why we now have the 2/3/4 rule. At least you can still actually churn and hold multiple BoA cards though. And weirdly, the rule doesn't apply to biz cards, probably because there are so few good ones.
Somebody actually got all 30 teams approved but I think they may have had some of them get closed then after they received them.
 
Double checking my understanding that ...only UR points can be transferred to SW. I started going for UR points since we fly SW many times a year so the RR points and CP are a real $$ saver. So the ability to transfer points to SW was key in my decision to accumulate UR points

It's hard to overstate how much I love RR points, especially in combination with a CP.

Recently, after regularly checking SW's website on a flight that was sold out, I was able to nab a one-way ticket for my CP when a seat opened up, worth $670. Because of SW's awesome cancellation policy when you pay with RRs, I was prepared to cancel my own ticket (which only cost me 17000 RRs when the schedule was first released) if the CP ended up not opening up and there would've been no penalty or expiration date. This kind of flexibility is worth it to me to have a strategy for accumulating URs and CPs.

DH has MRs - opened up AMEX Biz cards because of the signup bonuses, but I haven't found a good use of them yet. Don't have a Schwab AMEX Plat, though I suspect that's how those would be redeemed in the future.
 
This is just where we differ in the points we like best, I guess. I totally get paying a small fee to earn rewards. My thinking is why would I earn less rewards when I could earn more?

I definitely see your point, and I don’t disagree. As much as I love all the UR points generated by 3x Plastiq, maybe I also use this as a crutch to slow my roll because, really, my wife would kill me if I signed us up for a new card every month.
 
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