I love credit cards so much! v3.0 (see first page for add'l details)

[calypso726]

We are in the early stages of planning a 2 week trip to Spain June 2021, possible stop in Amsterdam to see Anne Franks museum, per DD1’s request. I can’t help with specifics but I can tell you want I’m doing to collect miles to get there and use points for 90% of the travel.
Collecting URs, plan A was to use United and take advantage of their excursionist perk. We are a family of 4 so flying business/first is never going to happen. To do that we need to book Savers on United needing 240,000 miles. I have 65k United miles, meaning I would need to transfer 180k URs. So I’ve been hoarding our URs. We have 300k. We are slow churners.
Then I discovered that AA has Web awards, 34k miles for round trip tickets to Madrid. I decided that this would now become plan A. I applied for my first Citi AA Biz and quickly earned 65k AA miles, DH had 17k AA miles from a previous SUB. DH had been approved for 70k AA SUB right at the beginning of this AA fiasco. So he will soon have 90k AA miles. We will be 28k AA miles short of 4RT tickets. Still trying to figure this one out. Would really love to use those AA miles for flights and save URs for hotels/apartments. You can book apartments on the Chase portal.

I don’t have a plan C for flights, we are sitting on 100k MRs. I’m hoping those will come in handy for a plan C. I guess plan D would be 2 of us fly on AA miles and 2 on United miles.

Our booking window will open in 6 months, I will have all the miles/points in place to book flights. After that I will focus on points for hotels.

I would suggest that focus on collecting and diversifying your rewards. And ask lots of questions, don’t be afraid to ask for advice before you apply for your next card.

Just wanted to say that I loved reading how you’ve got a few plans in place and are looking at accomplishing your goals using multiple angles.

 

[bernina]

We have a few things, but no airfare. Activities in NOLA booked with URs, hotel at USO with URs both in March.
Do they just pro-rate refund if I PC in April. I just can’t afford the $450 right now.

Sorry your trip ended on such a bad note. Glad Chase helped out but wouldn’t your health insurance cover the urgent care trip?

For domestic hotel and activities I agree, the insurance isn't quite as important and that is a hefty AF for sure. I'm not sure about pro rating but I'm sure someone on here can chime in.

We have a high deductible plan where we pay out of pocket for most things other than routine visits and flu shots, etc. So the amount we paid just went towards meeting our deductible. If we didn't have the money we would pull from our HSA but luckily the cost was small and even better Chase reimbursed us

 

[StephPlum]

I don't understand AMEX. I think others have had this as well. I see 25,412 MRs in DH's account today. Last statement was 412 so they have given him the SUB of 25K but based on my accounting we are 700 away. We did have a 600 charge and then return. So maybe that is counted? Oh well. Still aiming to charge the last 700 to make it "legal" at least in my mind and hopefully fend off any future clawbacks.

And just to continue AMEX making me mad, he also is pre-approved for a BBC card. Just a reminder, we have the same credit score. And before he was approved for the Biz Green, there was no more spend or cards or closures on his account than I had. But he was approved Biz green, pre-approved for BBP and now pre-approved for BBC. And he hasn't even made a charge on the BBP yet. All the while I am still somehow a bad customer and can't get rid of the pop-up. I just wish I knew the rules and then I wouldn't be upset. If I knew it was too many cards or too many closures or not enough spend (tell me how much!), then I could play by the rules. But when the rules are hidden from you, it is frustrating. Thanks, I just needed to type out my frustration. Back to my weekly account reviews.

 

[DisneyMandC]

I've finally caught up! I've been trying to all week. It's been super hard for me to get on the Dis during the day anymore because I suspect our internet is currently being monitored at work. I can explain being on Facebook for my job, but not so much a Disney forum!

Anyways, couple of updates since I last posted here:

1. First and foremost- I was approved for the Amex Gold this morning!!! I was shocked!! I've been in Amex popup hell for so long. Literally over a year. I put about 3k in spend on my Bonvoy Biz over the last three months and I guess that must've done the trick.
2. DH and I leave for Orlando on the 18th. Yesterday, I saw these funny Valentine's Day cards that the Disney World page posted on Facebook and tagged DH in them. I didn't even see the link to the Villains After Hours event that was in the post. When I got home from work, DH asked me if that meant we were going to the VAH event when we were there.... uh, no? We already talked about this and you decided it was too expensive and you didn't want to go? Well now he's decided that he definitely wants to go and it looks amazing! I was trying to figure out how I could make this happen for us and saw that you can buy party tickets on UT! I didn't realize this and thought you could only buy regular park tickets. UT codes as travel on my CO Venture, so I can buy the tix there and erase the charges! Yay!

@havaneselover thanks for the tip on the Fulton Bank bonus. Definitely signing DH and I up for that!

 

[Lain]

I don't understand AMEX. I think others have had this as well. I see 25,412 MRs in DH's account today. Last statement was 412 so they have given him the MSR of 25K but based on my accounting we are 700 away. We did have a 600 charge and then return. So maybe that is counted? Oh well. Still aiming to charge the last 700 to make it "legal" at least in my mind and hopefully fend off any future clawbacks.

With Amex, the SUB is triggered when you meet the MSR based on gross spend, not factoring in annual fees or credits received from benefits or returns. However, while the SUB will post regardless of any credits or refunds that take you under the MSR, Amex can and will very likely claw back that SUB if you don't make up that negative spend within the MSR period.

 

[IFlossU]

but based on my accounting we are 700 away.

This happened to me with my Platinum card. I was $500-700 under MSR and shocked to see the bonus points in my account.

 

[IFlossU]

I’m just over here waiting for DH’s CIP confetti to start falling earn and burn

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

March MK hours adjustments now were made:

https://blogmickey.com/2020/02/magic-kingdom-extends-park-hours-in-march-2020-adjusts-emh

 

[GlamMistress]

This has been a weird cruise. Just watched the Coast Guard rescue a passenger. With the aerial basket and everything. More tomorrow when I have regular data.

Sitting in NOLA. Having brunch with a girlfriend before our flight. Some trip updates:

I should have packed more warmer clothes. Freezing and horrible weather last day of cruise. Very cold in New Orleans.

Many people were seasick. I’ve done 10 cruises and this was the roughest.

The Super Bowl at sea was cool, watching with so many and the big buffet.

Castaway Cay was beautiful as always. The Cove Cafe area remains my favorite adult area at sea.

We ate so much. OMG Palo dinner! Also so much booze, lol.

Puerto Rico was hot and awesome. Crazy expensive tho. Bacardi tour was cool and worth it if you like history and alcohol.

The Troubador Hilton in New Orleans has crappy service. Hotel is nice enough for the points.

We had so many medical emergencies on board. Two different bright star calls. The staff all acted weird after the second one and before/after the coast guard. We believe it was a child.

We still spent a small fortune on this trip, which has us talking about buying Aulani points again to just save in the long run. Mickey Math!

I am also reconsidering the cruises I have booked for next year. They are not DCL and I just don’t know. The price of Disney is obscene but there is no b.s. with the Mouse, either. So we have some decisions to make.


Yes I bought a placeholder.

 

[GlamMistress]

Also wanted to add we were ready to get off the ship. The coronavirus boats were freaking us out, then the RC ship out of Bayonne yesterday. We just didn’t want to end up under some freaky quarantine because someone got the flu. Also some people on our sailing were in fact denied boarding because they had been to China recently. Half that travel party did make it and were 3 cabins down from us. They complained a whole lot that first night.

Our screening was just a paper where I checked no, we haven’t been to Wuhan. Not very aggressive. It is much more aggressive now.

 

[DaveL]

March MK hours adjustments now were made:

https://blogmickey.com/2020/02/magic-kingdom-extends-park-hours-in-march-2020-adjusts-emh

Looks like we crashed the site. Wants a user/password now. LOL.

Edit: Now several stories are gone and that link is 404.

 

[Lain]

And just to continue AMEX making me mad, he also is pre-approved for a BBC card. Just a reminder, we have the same credit score. And before he was approved for the Biz Green, there was no more spend or cards or closures on his account than I had. But he was approved Biz green, pre-approved for BBP and now pre-approved for BBC. And he hasn't even made a charge on the BBP yet. All the while I am still somehow a bad customer and can't get rid of the pop-up. I just wish I knew the rules and then I wouldn't be upset. If I knew it was too many cards or too many closures or not enough spend (tell me how much!), then I could play by the rules. But when the rules are hidden from you, it is frustrating. Thanks, I just needed to type out my frustration. Back to my weekly account reviews.

I'm not sure pre-approval means DH is immune from the pop up on that product. They may be disconnected.

Amex pop ups seem to be a mix of factors. This includes things like how many years you've been an Amex cardmember in your own name (as opposed to being just an AU and benefitting from a primary cardmember's much longer Amex history). I've been an Amex cardmember for about 9 years and I've never had a pop up even as I've signed up for more than a dozen cards. I currently have 11 cards open with Amex, so it's definitely not too many cards. However, my wife got a pop up in her first year as an Amex cardmember in her name and only having opened two Amex cards of her own at the time, despite having been an AU on my oldest Amex card for the entire time I've had it open and having the same "Member Since" as me.

It could be how many cards you've closed, or relatedly how many renewal AFs you've paid. Since the pop ups started happening, I've been very careful to advise people really think about what Amex cards to open (and thus, eventually have to close), and whether it's a card they can see themselves keeping or holding not just for the minimum one year, but possibly renew and pay an AF on for a second year. This is especially true for those cards with the first year AF waived, or those high AF premium cards.

Before you sign up for an Amex card, you need to look beyond the near-immediate gratification of a big SUB. Gone, it seems, are the days when you could sign up for card after card, because Amex approved anyone with a heartbeat, meet the MSR, pocket the SUB, and sockdrawer the card until a year had passed and you could close the card without repercussion.

Now, you need to be asking yourself things like, does this card have benefits or bonus categories that make it a keeper? Even if a card doesn't have good bonus categories, can I accept putting non-bonused everyday spend on it even though that spend could be going on a 1.5x or 2x everything card or towards another MSR? Are ongoing benefits like FNCs worth paying another AF to at least pocket before closing? Is there a downgrade or upgrade path that I'm okay with and won't make me ineligible for a different product's SUB under Amex's once per lifetime rule? Besides factoring into the pop up, how will keeping or closing a card implicate Amex's other rules like the 5 credit card limit that may affect my application for the next card? Will Amex give me a good enough retention offer for me to offset the AF and justify, along with all the other benefits, keeping the card for another year?

I've closed a lot of cards, but I always try to keep cards open past a year whether because it makes sense, or with a retention offer or upgrade/downgrade.

Relatedly, are you continuing to spend on Amex's cards after meeting MSR? Word is Amex has invested heavily in data analytics and they can see huge drop offs in spend after meeting a MSR. That's a telltale sign of someone signing up for a card just for the SUB. I think it's impractical to ask anyone to keep the same levels of spend on that card after MSR as you were spending to meet MSR. What I do suggest is not hitting an Amex MSR with only one or a few large charges during MSR so the dropoff doesn't seem as severe after MSR. If you have a large expense looking for an MSR, see if you can split the charge between different cards or over time so that large spend doesn't end up all on your Amex MSR at once. Keep your spending between MSR Month 1, Month 2, and Month 3 fairly level, then you can start tapering down your spend over the next few months. After a year and paying a second year AF, I personally don't worry about keeping up the spend on that Amex card as long as my overall Amex spend is a healthy amount.

I've said this before, I don't actually "spend on each one." I think the conventional wisdom to spend on your Amex cards doesn’t necessarily mean spend on each one. If you have one or two, yes it probably matters that you spend on each one, especially if your cardmember history with Amex isn’t long and these cards are in their first year. But if you have 5 or 10 Amex cards, it’s probably okay if you spend heavily on a few and have little or no charges in some months on others. I’d say, if we’re not working on MSRs from other issuers, Amex gets more than 3/4 of our spend across various cards and not necessarily evenly.

Take a look at your cards that might've seen a significant dip after meeting MSR, start spending on them again and let your statement close with balances. It's hard to say how much you need to spend (some say bring it back up to MSR period levels). I think everyone's case may be different. Amex is very likely assigning scores based on your history, and some cardmembers may be in a deeper hole than others.

I think for many of Amex's cards, credit benefits, category bonuses, FNCs, Amex Offers, spending offers, upgrade bonuses, and retention offers all can help to justify keeping a card for more than a year and continue spending on at least some of them. At least then it doesn't look like you're opening cards for bonuses, not spending, and closing all of them after only a year. Amex has become very much a relationship bank, and that can lead to some suboptimal behavior if you want to keep that relationship, keep Amex happy enough to let you keep opening cards and getting their bonuses.

 

[StephPlum]

With Amex, the SUB is triggered when you meet the MSR based on gross spend, not factoring in annual fees or credits received from benefits or returns. However, while the SUB will post regardless of any credits or refunds that take you under the MSR, Amex can and will very likely claw back that SUB if you don't make up that negative spend within the MSR period.

Thanks for verifying. I am planning to make up the spend. Have until 3/10 so plenty of time.

 

[StephPlum]

I'm not sure pre-approval means DH is immune from the pop up on that product. They may be disconnected.

Amex pop ups seem to be a mix of factors. This includes things like how many years you've been an Amex cardmember in your own name (as opposed to being an AU and benefitting from the primary cardmember's much longer Amex history). I've been an Amex cardmember for about 9 years and I've never had a pop up even as I've signed up for more than a dozen cards. I currently have 11 cards open with Amex, so it's definitely not too many cards. However, my wife got a pop up in her first year as an Amex cardmember in her name and only having opened two Amex cards of her own at the time, despite having been an AU on my oldest Amex card for the entire time I've had it open and having the same "Member Since" as me.

It could be how many cards you've closed, or relatedly how many renewal AFs you've paid. Since the pop ups started happening, I've been very careful to advise people really think about what Amex cards to open (and thus, eventually have to close), and whether it's a card they can see themselves holding not just for the minimum one year, but possibly renew and pay an AF on for a second year. This is especially true for those cards with the first year AF waived, or those high AF premium cards.

Before you sign up for an Amex card, you need to look beyond the near-immediate gratification of a big SUB. Gone, it seems, are the days when you could sign up for card after card, because Amex approved anyone with a heartbeat, meet the MSR, pocket the SUB, and sockdrawer the card until a year had passed and you could close the card without repercussion.

Now, you need to be asking yourself things like, does this card have benefits or bonus categories that make it a keeper? Even if a card doesn't have good bonus categories, can I accept putting non-bonused everyday spend on it even though that spend could be going on a 1.5x or 2x everything card or towards another MSR? Are ongoing benefits like FNCs worth paying another AF to at least pocket before closing? Is there a downgrade or upgrade path that I'm okay with and won't make me ineligible for a different product's SUB under Amex's once per lifetime rule? Besides the factoring into the pop up, how will keeping or closing a card implicate Amex's other rules like the 5 credit card limit that may affect my application for the next card? Will Amex give me a good enough retention offer for me to offset the AF and justify, along with all the other benefits, keeping the card for another year?

Relatedly, are you continuing to spend on Amex's cards after meeting MSR? Word is Amex has invested heavily in data analytics and they can see huge drop offs in spend after meeting a MSR. That's a telltale sign of someone signing up for a card just for the SUB. I think it's impractical to ask anyone to keep the same levels of spend on that card after MSR as you were spending to meet MSR. What I do suggest is not hitting an Amex MSR with only one or a few large charges during MSR so the dropoff doesn't seem as severe after MSR. If you have a large expense looking for an MSR, see if you can split the charge between different cards or over time so that large spend doesn't end up all on your Amex MSR at once. Keep your spending between MSR Month 1, Month 2, and Month 3 fairly level, then you can start tapering down your spend over the next few months. After a year and paying a second year AF, I personally don't worry about keeping up the spend on that Amex card as long as my overall Amex spend is a healthy amount.

I've said this before, I don't actually "spend on each one." I think the conventional wisdom to spend on your Amex cards doesn’t necessarily mean spend on each one. If you have one or two, yes it probably matters that you spend on each one, especially if your cardmember history with Amex isn’t long. But if you have 5 or 10 Amex cards, it’s probably okay if you spend heavily on a few and have little or no charges in some months on others. I’d say, if we’re not working on MSRs from other issuers, Amex gets more than 3/4 of our spend across various cards — not necessarily evenly.

Take a look at your cards that might've seen a significant dip after meeting MSR, start spending on it again and let your statement close with balances. It's hard to say how much you need to spend (some say bring it back up to MSR period levels). I think everyone's case may be different. Amex is very likely assigning scores based on your history, and some cardmembers may be in a deeper hole than others.

I think for many of Amex's cards, credit benefits, category bonuses, FNCs, Amex Offers, spending offers, upgrade bonuses, and retention offers all can help to justify keeping a card for more than a year. At least then it doesn't look like you're opening cards for bonuses and closing all of them after only a year. Amex has become very much a relationship bank, and that can lead to some suboptimal behavior if you want to keep that relationship, keep Amex happy enough to let you keep opening cards and getting their bonuses.

Thanks for all the thoughts. Great write up on Amex strategies.

On the BBC, it is $200 stmt credit for $5000 spend. We already have the BBP that is $5000 spend to make. I can't take on two Amex MSRs that large. So not even going to apply. BBP was pre-approved and no pop-up, so pre-approval might not always by-pass pop-up, can't say. That is my only one data point.

I am keeping my Marriott biz card for a FNC, even paying the $125 AF. I was thinking of closing my Delta card which will be one year in March. If I knew my spend would get me out of the pop-up, I would keep it and pay the AF and put spend on it. It would be worth it to me. Maybe this will be a test. Renew for another year to see if that has any impact. I have upped spend on the Marriott card, which is usually just spend on offers. And I put spend on the Delta card, not as much as I wasn't chasing more Delta miles. Hasn't made a difference yet. My biggest issue is that DH and I are exactly the same (ok maybe not exactly the same but very, very close). Same # of years with Amex, same credit score, Same # sign ups (except I get a card first and then refer him so maybe I am dinged for the referrals?), same closures (1), same amount of spend. I could be content with just having BBP for DH for our MRs to grow. Part of it is my ego. Why not me, Amex!?

Too many MSRs right now for me to try for a new card. I'll keep spending on my Marriott and Delta and see if the pop-up goes away when I can go for another MSR.

 

[elgerber]

Amex is definitely a mystery. I have been an Amex holder for 13 years and have had several cards throughout that time. I had never gotten a popup until the last month or two. Dh has also been a long time cardholder, and has been in popup jail forever now.

 

[StephPlum]

Any one looking to book a rental car from Costco 2/10-4/30 they are having a deal through tomorrow on Avis or Budget. My car price went down $20 and I'll get a $30 card so total savings $50.

 

[rlbbj]

Just posting to say hello.

 

[IFlossU]

@SouthFayetteFan and any one who can possibly answer
Approximately how far in advance have the Southwest “Max 8 schedule change” windows been showing up? Or is it random? I booked some flights in mid July and I’m wondering if I should watch out for a schedule change or if it’s already passed. I’ve had my flights changed by Southwest twice since this started, and have yet to be notified. I stumbled on it randomly the first time, and heard about here the 2nd time. For mid July flights should I watch for it, or no?

 

[Minnie368]

Forgive me if you have already started on the churning journey and some of what I recommend below you already know or have done. I don't have the @Lain spreadsheet and can never keep track of who has done what or when. Either way, I'm sure the info will be valuable for someone starting out.

I'll start by highly recommending you plan 2 years out. I'd recommend that for 2 people traveling to Europe, you are looking at 4. If you are just planning to use points and miles to mitigate your expenses then maybe a 2021 trip would still work. Also, keep in mind if you are looking at traveling in business or first it would be very tough to find award availability for 4 people. Plus, it would require many more miles. Becasue of the ease and flexibility of Ultimate Reward points I am going to recommend you start with the Chase cards due to 5/24 and get your DH as a P2 on board. CIP would be first because of the large sign up bonus. Most everyone here has a "business" or is thinking of starting a "business" which requires they have a business card for their babysitting, pet sitting, ebay selling, yard sales, baking cookies, consulting, tutoring, life coach, essential oils, travel advisor etc. "business." They use their first name and last name ONLY as the business name, apply as a sole proprietor and their ss# instead of an EIN number. I know many have reluctant P2s and my advice is the same, "if you don't want to play the game you can fly in coach but I'll be up in first." If everyone is flying in coach then it's, "you can budget and pay for your own flights and I'll use the money we saved to buy souvenirs." I know that wouldn't fly in some households, but if someone is in P1 mode than you will need even more time to get your points and miles in place.

1. What makes London tough is that a number of airlines charge very high taxes and fees. British Airways is a prime example. Also, a number of airlines are doing dynamic pricing so it can be tough to find award availability for fewer points and miles. PHL flights I'd be looking at American Airlines since PHL is a hub. Here is a nice little primer to get some ideas going on what may work for you and your family as far as award flights to Europe go. https://upgradedpoints.com/best-ways-to-fly-to-london-with-points/

2. I am a big fan of the Radisson Blue properties in Europe and have held their Premier Visa for years and so has PlanePrincess. The card has a $75 AF. The bonus is 85k for $2,500 spend in 3 months but you will wind up with 97,500 because you get 5x/$. The card gives you gold status which allows for early check in/late check out and an upgrade. It is a keeper card for use because you also get 40,000 anniversary points each year. That amounts to 275,000 points in P2 mode after the first year anniversary. My next go to would be Hilton because it is easy to rack up Hilton points through various cards without ridiculous rules for approval and to add to the stash if needed by purchasing the points during a 100% bonus offer.

3. I think the train is easy from London to Europe and fun. There are a ton of flights available within Europe for very little cost and can be booked via the UR portal. Sometimes transferring to BA for short hauls can work but check the taxes and fees first to see if it is worth it. Hope this helps

Thanks for your reply. I definitely want 2 yrs to plan if I can make it happen. I’m just concerned that DH will graduate and need to start a new job right away. I want to do as much with points as possible but know I won’t be able to cover it all. DH definitely a good P2 and is totally on board as long as I do the research and just tell him what to do haha. Both working on CIP right now. I’ll definitely look into Radisson as I’m not familiar with them at all. We’ve started a Hilton SUB too so I’ll keep working in those.

We are in the early stages of planning a 2 week trip to Spain June 2021, possible stop in Amsterdam to see Anne Franks museum, per DD1’s request. I can’t help with specifics but I can tell you want I’m doing to collect miles to get there and use points for 90% of the travel.
Collecting URs, plan A was to use United and take advantage of their excursionist perk. We are a family of 4 so flying business/first is never going to happen. To do that we need to book Savers on United needing 240,000 miles. I have 65k United miles, meaning I would need to transfer 180k URs. So I’ve been hoarding our URs. We have 300k. We are slow churners.
Then I discovered that AA has Web awards, 34k miles for round trip tickets to Madrid. I decided that this would now become plan A. I applied for my first Citi AA Biz and quickly earned 65k AA miles, DH had 17k AA miles from a previous SUB. DH had been approved for 70k AA SUB right at the beginning of this AA fiasco. So he will soon have 90k AA miles. We will be 28k AA miles short of 4RT tickets. Still trying to figure this one out. Would really love to use those AA miles for flights and save URs for hotels/apartments. You can book apartments on the Chase portal.

I don’t have a plan C for flights, we are sitting on 100k MRs. I’m hoping those will come in handy for a plan C. I guess plan D would be 2 of us fly on AA miles and 2 on United miles.

Our booking window will open in 6 months, I will have all the miles/points in place to book flights. After that I will focus on points for hotels.

I would suggest that focus on collecting and diversifying your rewards. And ask lots of questions, don’t be afraid to ask for advice before you apply for your next card.

Thanks for all that info! It’s giving me a good starting point to start gathering info. I may have some questions along the way. When you say your booking window opens do you mean for flights, hotel? How early out do those things open?

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

@SouthFayetteFan and any one who can possibly answer
Approximately how far in advance have the Southwest “Max 8 schedule change” windows been showing up? Or is it random? I booked some flights in mid July and I’m wondering if I should watch out for a schedule change or if it’s already passed. I’ve had my flights changed by Southwest twice since this started, and have yet to be notified. I stumbled on it randomly the first time, and heard about here the 2nd time. For mid July flights should I watch for it, or no?

The last instance of this covered flights through 6/6. I would anticipate the window opening up to cover the rest of June and most of July within the next few weeks.