I just don't like the amount of structuring the new FP+ requires

[eliza61]

And on that point, I'd argue that there are just as many people who did not appreciate the need to arrive at rope drop...jog to the back of the park...wait in a 20 minute FP line...and then face a complete uncertain return time. With the legacy system, that was the norm for Toy Story Mania and it would undoubtedly be true for 7DMT today.

Not to mention the 4 hour standby times for Anna & Elsa.

That's a personal preference issue...which is the lesser of two evils: the rope drop FP march or reserving 60 days in advance? Neither is perfect and while you could probably guess which side I come down on, I can understand why some prefer the other method.

Still, what I'm trying to address is the perception that 60 day advance planning is necessary. Just not true. It's probably worthwhile to plan around TSM, 7DMT and Anna & Elsa. But that's 2 parks--2 days--worth of activities. For other parks & rides...wait until the night before to schedule.

Still don't agree but that's cool. We tried every night to change our fast passes for the headliners, absolutely no go. We were there the last week in May and the day of was so frustrating that we stopped trying after day 3. I am glad to hear this week seems to be slow because our family reunion is next August same time.

I do prefer it the other way, your post implies that some how I was doing it "incorrectly", our experience was if we wanted to change day of either we waited in a line to get to a kiosk or we sat with a phone to our ear. Neither is enjoyable.

So your saying next August the night before I can get 8 fp for space mountain, splash mountain and soarin the night before?

Call me skeptical

 

[Msmithmd]

I'm with Tim. After four trips using FP+, I do find it superior to old FP. It's always better for a late arrival, and it is also easier to coordinate with rope drop for the early park goers. Although I run distance for leisure in my real life, I don't miss one bit being the "FP runner" for my family when on vacation.

The only place where FP+ is clearly inferior is for the FP- commandos who would ride space mountain half a dozen times a day or more. While I can understand these folks frustration, it is plainly and obviously in Disney's business interest to give six people the chance for one guaranteed quick line, rather than one person six guaranteed short lines.

Remember that from the strictly business case, FP has always been about getting the guest out of line and potentially into restaurants or stores. As customers, we like waiting less. But as a business, TWDC recognizes you aren't giving them any extra revenue while standing in a ninety minute line.

Therefore, which do you think is more likely: that a family who rides SM half a dozen times via FP is going to spend $300 extra per person; or that six families who ride it once via FP are going to spend $50 extra per person, than they would if the FP system didn't exist?

You don't need to be a business major to see the obvious truth here. This is why, like it or not, FP+ and the inherent limiting of FP re-rides is here to stay. That, and $1.5B to justify to shareholders...

 

[Andrew015]

If you were in charge of dispersing the growing crowds throughout the parks, what would you do? .

If I were "in charge", I would give Holywood Studios and EPCOT (Future World) the much-needed attention that they require to take some of the lopsided demand away from MK. Take a look at the 2013 attendance figures by park, which really tells the true story. I think most people on this forum would be in agreement that we would rather have seen a billion dollars spent on true Imagineering (i.e. new attractions) rather than a buggy system that tracks our every move and requires significant amounts of advanced planning, thus turning our once relaxing vacations into much more stressful, regimented vacations.

I think the major problem that folks are having is just that Walt Disney World is getting more and more popular. Disney's advertising is working. With that many more people in the parks, a modicum of planning is necessary.

EPCOT has two attractions that constantly have 100 minute + standby wait times, while everything else within the entire park could easily be considered a "walk on". A "modicum of planning" (FP+) is not going to fix the root cause of the problem (not enough attractions that people truly want to ride).

 

[Andrew015]

At of 3:30pm, there are still FP+ available for most attractions: Buzz, Space, BTMR, RnR, ToT, Star Tours, Everest, Dinosaur, Kilimanjaro, etc.

As for riding "everything", TouringPlans has repeatedly concluded that FP+ has had minimal impact on whole-day wait times and that guests could complete their "ride everything in the park" touring plans in slightly LESS time with FP+ than the legacy system.




And how many extra miles did you walk with all of that bouncing?

Walk to Soarin (all the way at the back of Land pavilion)
Get Soarin FastPass.
Leave pavilion and attempt to fill next 30-60-90-120 minutes until return time arrives.
Return and ride Soarin.
Walk to Test Track.
Get TT FastPass.

...wash, rinse, repeat...

With FP+, we found ourselves walking right on our preferred attractions with zero wait time. No criss-crossing. No more of those "gee, we have 60 minutes to kill...now what?" discussions.

We like to arrive in the parks mid-morning...usually between 10-11am. So we typically schedule our first FP for 10-11am and second for 11-12pm. With an arrival around 10:30-10:45, we can ride both FP+ attractions back-to-back with zero standby wait.

Under the old system if I'd planned to get a FP for Space at 10:30am, what would my return time be? You don't know. I don't know. The only certainty is that I wouldn't be walking-on at 10:30am.

Will you spend more time in Standby lines? Possibly. But you're eliminating most of that wasteful trudging across the theme parks and all of the uncertainty associated with ride times assigned by the FP ticket vending machine.



That's certainly a drawback of the new system. No arguments here.



No, you don't.



I would wholeheartedly agree with that. Reality is each attraction only has a finite daily capacity. Not every person entering the gates of Epcot can ride both Soarin and Test Track even once in a single day....much less multiple times.

So yes, I do believe FP+ was designed to distribute those ride slots more fairly. Even if it upsets the die hards.



Like I said, I don't believe Touring Plans agrees with this. Even in 2 parks where tiering exists, you can hit every attraction by arriving at park opening and using Standby for the likes of Test Track and Rock N Rollercoaster.

No question this will change how many people tour the parks. Repeat rides are unquestionably more difficult.

But my comments were directed toward short-term and even same-day availability of FP+. Will you always be able to change ride times or attractions mid-afternoon for the same day? Of course not. But even the old FP system regularly hit capacity limits within a few hours of park opening.

Tim,

You are speaking from first-hand experience, where I am speaking based on pre-conceived notions. Again, I will let the experience of my upcoming trip determine my true impression of the FP+ system, but I am not optimistic. This is based on countless posts describing exactly how I imagine the system to work (or not work, as the case may be). Additionally, I am qualified to speak to the significant amount of advanced planning required, and also, how much more regimented my vacations will become, because they absolutely are new elements of the vacation experience that were not required under the old system. This is my biggest beef with FP+.

Like anything, there are going to be folks on both ends of the spectrum. Obviously, we differ with regard to our take on FP+. I understand and can appreciate your take, and will concede that there are some advantages to the system - crowd dispersion, advanced planning (if you like that sort of thing), ability to better manage your "flow" throughout the parks, etc. However, for the reasons that I mention in this post (as well as the reasons mentioned in my above post), I do not feel that FP+ is a better mousetrap (pun intended). Rather, I feel it is a Band-Aid over a bullet wound, and the real answer would be to build more attractions that people really want to see. There are glimmers of hope on the horizon (Avatarland, Star Wars Land, etc.) but I am not going to hold my breath.

 

[eliza61]

If I were "in charge", I would give Holywood Studios and EPCOT (Future World) the much-needed attention that they require to take some of the lopsided demand away from MK. Take a look at the 2013 attendance figures by park, which really tells the true story. I think most people on this forum would be in agreement that we would rather have seen a billion dollars spent on true Imagineering (i.e. new attractions) rather than a buggy system that tracks our every move and requires significant amounts of advanced planning, thus turning our once relaxing vacations into much more stressful, regimented vacations. EPCOT has two attractions that constantly have 100 minute + standby wait times, while everything else within the entire park could easily be consider a "walk on". A "modicum of planning" (FP+) is not going to fix the root cause of the problem (not enough attractions that people truly want to ride).

+1

I'd be happy if they had spent 1/2 of that billion on at least making HS a full day park.

I think introducing a system for the sole purpose of stuffing more folks into the park is a bit sad but I do understand the business side of it. Hey I'm a stockholder too. Lol. I've been to the world over 30 times in the last 20 years so I've got no complaints about having to move on. Interestingly enough, i spend way more money when I'm relaxed and content. While I do agree that a "modicum" of planning is to be expected, I shouldn't have to plan to the extent of the allied invasion of France. I shouldn't be stressed on vacation Especially after all these years.

Just my opinion

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I'm with Tim. After four trips using FP+, I do find it superior to old FP. It's always better for a late arrival, and it is also easier to coordinate with rope drop for the early park goers. Although I run distance for leisure in my real life, I don't miss one bit being the "FP runner" for my family when on vacation.

The only place where FP+ is clearly inferior is for the FP- commandos who would ride space mountain half a dozen times a day or more. While I can understand these folks frustration, it is plainly and obviously in Disney's business interest to give six people the chance for one guaranteed quick line, rather than one person six guaranteed short lines.

Remember that from the strictly business case, FP has always been about getting the guest out of line and potentially into restaurants or stores. As customers, we like waiting less. But as a business, TWDC recognizes you aren't giving them any extra revenue while standing in a ninety minute line.

Therefore, which do you think is more likely: that a family who rides SM half a dozen times via FP is going to spend $300 extra per person; or that six families who ride it once via FP are going to spend $50 extra per person, than they would if the FP system didn't exist?

You don't need to be a business major to see the obvious truth here. This is why, like it or not, FP+ and the inherent limiting of FP re-rides is here to stay. That, and $1.5B to justify to shareholders...

So are you spending more time shopping and eating than you used to? Or are you more like us that if we can schedule our FP's bing bang boom we do that, know that we now don't have to wait around for the FP we used to pick up that might be an hour or two down the road so we head out of the park.

I think the theory probably sounded good in the planning room except it ignores one thing. Most people are there to do the attractions and shows. A person can only eat so much - and for the most part the dining plan has filled the restaurants anyway well prior to implementing FP+. And shopping? I think that tends to go a bit more on economy, product and the desire. Shoppers will always shop. Having to spend less time in an attraction line for me just means I would head for another attraction.

 

[Mkrop]

That's just not true.

Right now...TODAY...at 11:20am...there are still FPs available for:

Space Mountain
Splash Mountain
BTMR
Soarin
Test Track
Rock N Rollercoaster
Tower of Terror
Star Tours
Everest

Pretty much EVERY attraction at Walt Disney World except Toy Story Mania and 7DMT. Same day availability.





Well, I'm not sure if the 60 day thing is entirely accurate. I don't have a hotel reservation so I can only see 30 days out. My understanding is that it's that 30 day mark when 7DMT gets nearly impossible.

Nevertheless, that's one attraction out of dozens in all of Walt Disney World. Getting on-line in advance to book that one attraction doesn't seem like a terrible hardship. In my opinion, it's MUCH better than being forced to arrive at rope drop and criss-crossing the park to collect and later redeem paper FastPass tickets.

The biggest issue I have with these anti-FP+ discussions is that people seem to have this slanted opinion of what they "NEED" to do under the new system. The idea that every movement of your trip must be planned-out in advance is unequivocally false.

If I were headed to the Magic Kingdom right now, here's what I could pre-book from my laptop or smartphone for TODAY for a group of 4:

Buzz: 11:50am - 12:50pm
Space Mountain: 1:35pm - 2:35pm
BTMR: 3pm - 4pm

All very reasonable times obtained well into the park's operating day. No running around grabbing FP tickets. I selected the exact return times rather than simply taking what the machine was handing out at any given moment.

When people finally start to get over this misguided perception that they "need" to book FPs for every day of their trip weeks in advance, perhaps they will finally see the benefits this system brings to the table.

I dont think today was a good day to use as an example. By chance I went onto the MDE app and it said that Soarin had a 40 minute wait at 1pm. And other rides were like that. I think the parks are pretty empty at this time of year

If you were in charge of dispersing the growing crowds throughout the parks, what would you do?My personal experience is that we got to ride everything we wanted to and still have downtime at the resort when we were there in March. This was before the extra FP+ were made available. I also managed to plan for 8 people without much of a problem (technical issues on Disney's side notwithstanding). One hangup that folks had was needing to have the exact same time for a ride but you don't have to do that. Just getting ride times within the hour works for the group to ride together.

I think the major problem that folks are having is just that Walt Disney World is getting more and more popular. Disney's advertising is working. With that many more people in the parks, a modicum of planning is necessary. Overall, I think the FP+ system is a way to allow more of the people to ride at least one headliner on their trip to a park. To the extent that it pulls a ride away from those that rode it multiple times in the past, I don't think they care about that.

Build more attractions. I think the FP+ system had potential like booking from a phone vs running around the parks, but we did not find that we could change our FP+s easily in Dec. We tried to change TSMM at 9:30am one day and there was nothing available all day. The paper never ran out that quick.

I also want to be able to change up things if the weather is poor.

We also dont have the ability to go for long stays. I dont want to have to do two days of Epcot just to ride Soarin and TT.

And if I have to stand in long lines for POC or IASW, then I am not in the shops or grabbing a snack, I am in line and now I am annoyed. My wallet doesnt open as easily when I am annoyed.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

And on that point, I'd argue that there are just as many people who did not appreciate the need to arrive at rope drop...jog to the back of the park...wait in a 20 minute FP line...and then face a complete uncertain return time. With the legacy system, that was the norm for Toy Story Mania and it would undoubtedly be true for 7DMT today.

Not to mention the 4 hour standby times for Anna & Elsa.

That's a personal preference issue...which is the lesser of two evils: the rope drop FP march or reserving 60 days in advance? Neither is perfect and while you could probably guess which side I come down on, I can understand why some prefer the other method.

Still, what I'm trying to address is the perception that 60 day advance planning is necessary. Just not true. It's probably worthwhile to plan around TSM, 7DMT and Anna & Elsa. But that's 2 parks--2 days--worth of activities. For other parks & rides...wait until the night before to schedule.

It's kind of like I posted on the thread about 3 sheet bedding. One group that didn't like the old heavy comforters is now happy but others who liked the previous bedding aren't. However they still can call for more blankets. I wish I could as easily call for second SM or RnRR FP's.

And believe me but we were never rope drop people and still got our paper FP's. I'd estimate that our normal entry time was somewhere in the 10:30 to 11am range and for our interests Soarin' and TSMM might be the only ones we might not get. In most cases if people were running at rope drop it wasn't for FP - it was to get in standby line.

One other thing I noticed is that FP's can, and in our experience do, run out even faster now for things like Soarin and TSMM. The previous FP system was a chronological time distribution and you had to have activated your ticket coming into the park that day in order to get one. Now, FP's can and are booked by people that haven't even entered yet during the day and may not until hours later. Because the pool with access to FP's is expanded from those that have entered the park to anyone that has a ticket linked to MDE and has for at least 30 days and for onsite 60 days ahead of time there's a LOT more people that can get a FP. So reality means that you are going to have to do some pre-planning - because Disney doesn't have enough headliners at certain parks to spread the load.

I think even beyond the obvious nuances affecting people who liked to do attractions multiple times and may have been FP commandos there's even differences between what specific attractions it is that the group liked to do. Unfortunately we're in a sub-set that FP+ is a worse system and since it's affecting my vacation that I liked so well I'm going to be a bit annoyed by that.

 

[Msmithmd]

So are you spending more time shopping and eating than you used to? Or are you more like us that if we can schedule our FP's bing bang boom we do that, know that we now don't have to wait around for the FP we used to pick up that might be an hour or two down the road so we head out of the park. I think the theory probably sounded good in the planning room except it ignores one thing. Most people are there to do the attractions and shows. A person can only eat so much - and for the most part the dining plan has filled the restaurants anyway well prior to implementing FP+. And shopping? I think that tends to go a bit more on economy, product and the desire. Shoppers will always shop. Having to spend less time in an attraction line for me just means I would head for another attraction.

Nah, just like you and most DVC members, we no longer spend all day in the parks. This system change never was about people like us that Disney knows will come again. It is about the other half of the park attendees, who come once in a lifetime, or once every decade or two.

TWDC knows the DVC owners don't spend a lot of money buying toys or $35 salt shakers after they've been members for a few years. But the guests who come once, or rarely, do spend big on incidentals inside the parks. And those same guests are the ones who were least equipped to do well with old FP.

You know the ones. The people who would come on spring break, stand in line seven hours for four rides, and be frustrated when they went home. To those people, FP+ is a godsend, especially when you consider that Tim is correct that the large majority of rides don't need to be planned anywhere near sixty days out.

Those "rookie" guests by and large didn't use the classic FP system at all. They didn't understand it, or thought it was pay-per-use, like it is at about every other American theme park. Whatever else you can say about FP+, Disney is very aggressively including even their first time visitors in using the system.

Essentially I believe FP+ was always about leveling the playing field somewhat between "expert" visitors and first-time guests, and trying to get the first timers out of so many long lines.

To the points about "increase capacity rather than redistribute the lines," of course I agree. You'd be hard pressed to find a single Disney fan who doesn't think increased capacity is a better solution. For whatever reason, it isn't the solution Disney corporate chose. But if Universal starts eating their lunch, hopefully they will wake up...

 

[poison ivy]

I am also in the category of no thanks on the FP+ and just wrote a brief segment in my trip report titled: the good, the bad and the FP+

here's the single post:
http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=52131421&postcount=226

it echoes many of the sentiments here and I am happy to know others feel the same way.

 

[eliza61]

Nah, just like you and most DVC members, we no longer spend all day in the parks. This system change never was about people like us that Disney knows will come again. It is about the other half of the park attendees, who come once in a lifetime, or once every decade or two.

TWDC knows the DVC owners don't spend a lot of money buying toys or $35 salt shakers after they've been members for a few years. But the guests who come once, or rarely, do spend big on incidentals inside the parks. And those same guests are the ones who were least equipped to do well with old FP.



Those "rookie" guests by and large didn't use the classic FP system at all. They didn't understand it, or thought it was pay-per-use, like it is at about every other American theme park. Whatever else you can say about FP+, Disney is very aggressively including even their first time visitors in using the system.
Essentially I believe FP+ was always about leveling the playing field somewhat between "expert" visitors and first-time guests, and trying to get the first timers out of so many long lines.

To the points about "increase capacity rather than redistribute the lines," of course I agree. You'd be hard pressed to find a single Disney fan who doesn't think increased capacity is a better solution. For whatever reason, it isn't the solution Disney corporate chose. But if Universal starts eating their lunch, hopefully they will wake up...

but from my experience and in the interest of full disclosure last May was our first experience with fp=

From what I see the rookie guest is just as clueless and now even madder because they get to the parks and have to then still stand in a line to get on the fp+ system.

As I mentioned when we went in May the fp+ kiosk were backed up at every station, in every park from guest who had no clue about the system and now had to navigate it.

I think we get use to the folks here, which is a extremely tiny portion of wdw visitors who research and plan. We talk about it all the time, how many times has anyone here mentioned running into that first time guest who had no clue you had to make adr's for places in the park? I've seen them pissed because they couldn't even take a peek into Be our guest.

Let's be truthful, how many times do people come on these very boards saying they didn't have a great time and the FIRST thing out of our mouths is "you should have planned better"!!!

Sorry, IMO and from the chatter I'm reading from guest who only come occasionally is that Disney is now the vacation place that FORCES you to schedule if you want to remotely do any thing. No other place I know of does that. We did Paris disney and Paris May of 2013 and while planning made the trip a lot smoother if you didn't schedule your day, you still had the CAPABILITY of winging it and having a good time.

you can no longer do that at the world.

Once again, this was just after one experience. We've got a family reunion planned for next August, now from Tim's advice I should be able to make most of my fp's the day before. So I'm going to say I will keep an open mind until then and see if I like it any better.

 

[twinklebug]

Once again, this was just after one experience. We've got a family reunion planned for next August, now from Tim's advice I should be able to make most of my fp's the day before. So I'm going to say I will keep an open mind until then and see if I like it any better.

That will give Disney a year to adjust the system. I'm hoping for a better experience next summer too.

 

[Sammie]

We are the happy ones, we love it, completely and totally. We get so much more done, in less time now and certainly less walking. We can actually plan dinners without worrying about being late due to being on a ride at that time.

It has totally enhanced our vacation experience and just wish they had done it sooner.

 

[bobbiwoz]

We are the happy ones, we love it, completely and totally. We get so much more done, in less time now and certainly less walking. We can actually plan dinners without worrying about being late due to being on a ride at that time.

It has totally enhanced our vacation experience and just wish they had done it sooner.

We are happy, very happy. We get to do what we want within a reasonable time window which we know ahead of time.

Bobbi

 

[jodifla]

We skipped Disney on our last trip largely because of the FP+. Instead, we stayed at OWK and went to Universal, then on a Disney cruise where we used points, then back to AK Jambo House and went to Blizzard Beach.

FP+ just feels so much more inconvenient.

 

[eporter66]

We just did ours recently for our upcoming October trip. I like the idea, we just have to see how it goes. We usually dont plan that far ahead, we get there and gauge what we are going to do based on the weather, and what our DD10 wants to do each day. We are doing MNSSHP, so that took one day out of the mix. I will be interested to see how this planning works,

 

[rascalmom]

I think FP+ is less convenient on the front end....but in the time it takes to trudge from TSM to Tower of Terror, I can have all of my FP+ made.

I would be unhappy if I were a first time guest and didn't know. I wasthat unhappy first time guest in 1983 when I arrived at the parks (just MK and Epcot at the time) and found I needed to have a reservation booked if I wanted to eat anywhere besides quick service (I was a food snob even then and I was still in college!).

I learned from that experience and have planned each trip in advance since then. FP+ doesn't take that long to book - we're two trips in with it now and I think it saved us TONS of time. Time spent relaxing and enjoying being in the World. I can sleep in on a WDW vacation now and not feel like I will miss a FP opportunity at our favorites.

We were able to change times and make adjustments as our plans changed throughout both stays, even at TSM. Our visits were in mid-December 2013 and Spring Break 2014.

Honestly, we were growing weary of our commando ways and this kind of reinvigorated our interest in WDW.

 

[aclov]

We had issues with DH's band from check-in, it was not activated so he couldn't use it to open the door. We than went to Guest Relations to purchase tix as I couldn't buy beforehand and had lots of issues making FP's. They have the kiosk with screens and one person helping which she never got to us because she was helping others. My husband was livid. They were finally about to close so I went to the front desk after all the crowd left and the cast member there was able to help me. It took alot of time and frustration! So if you can make ALL arrangements prior!

 

[dcfromva]

I am trying to keep an open mind, but I am a little bummed out that I can't get 7DMT for any of the days we will be there in October. At first I thought that is unfortunate, but maybe we can recover with EMH.
I just checked the schedule and the only day EMH will be held during our visit is a Saturday night when the MK is open until 1am. EMH is 1am-3am. I don't think I can stay up that late!

Do they add any FP+ capacity on the day of or is it what you see now is what you get?

 

[TravelMommy]

These have been my issues since the start of FP+. Dining has never been an issue for us as we have never made a dining reservation and I have been going to MK since '71.
Do not tell but we are planning on getting APs to SW next year and BG the year after that.

***********************************************************

As long as you don't tell we are staying at our DVC resort and going to US/IOA, I can get tickets for $200/person for our entire length of stay!!! I too was not impressed with FP+ and found in certain circumstances such as when we went to our Soarin FP+, I swear there was more people in FP+ line than stand by. Some days we literally only did three rides, crowds were unbelievably large and we had had enough for the day. I am not going to be doing FP+ again, too over structured for me.