I joined a Yahoo group about the Manson Murders

[PrincessPatty]

Books on true crime in general or on the Manson Murders...
Here is a great site on true crime,with a good article on the case,and no gory crime scene photos
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/manson/murder_1.html

Thanks Jenny! True crime in general books, maybe working my way up to Manson murders.

 

[N.Bailey]

Terry Melcher? And I sort of agree with you on Helter Skelter..I *think* he may have touted this idea to his followers as a way to get them worked up, but I think their murders were motivated by his anger at Melcher(Doris Days son) who refused to get him into the music industry

I just ran a google search and this is who I believe Manson wanted the family to kill at the Tate residence.

There was another planned murder though, but one of the females in the family pretended to not remember which apartment this man lived in. I'm going to see if I can find anything on that night. I don't believe that was Terry Melcher.

Isn't it odd that Manson was living in Dennis Wilson's (Beach Boys) house? This googling is bring back lots of memories.

 

[wide awake]

Yes, Manson was very angry that Terry Melcher didn't think he (Manson) deserved a record contract...so Manson sent his loser followers to murder Melcher and Melcher's girlfriend...Candice Bergen...but they didn't live there any longer. Manson was a druggie, not too bright, but I'll stand by my original statement that he had charisma...if you haven't seen him talk you won't understand this. I think he is a loser, along w/ his followers.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I just ran a google search and this is who I believe Manson wanted the family to kill at the Tate residence.

There was another planned murder though, but one of the females in the family pretended to not remember which apartment this man lived in. I'm going to see if I can find anything on that night. I don't believe that was Terry Melcher.

Isn't it odd that Manson was living in Dennis Wilson's (Beach Boys) house? This googling is bring back lots of memories.

This article on Linda Kasabian has some info

Kasabian said in her testimony she heard the screams and wanted them to stop. At one point she left her car and ran toward the house to try and "make them stop," and was met by one of the victims (Frykowski), running out the front door. Kasabian says in her testimony, "There was a man just coming out of the door and he had blood all over his face and he was standing by a post, and we looked into each other's eyes for a minute, and I said, 'Oh, God, I am so sorry. Please make it stop.' And then he just fell to the ground into the bushes." Then Watson repeatedly stabbed Frykowski and hit him in the head. Kasabian tried to get the murderers to stop by telling them that she had heard noises, but they claimed it was "too late."

The next night, Manson once again ordered the quartet to gather a change of clothing and get into the car, this time joining them to "show them how to do it," because he felt the deed the night before had been performed sloppily. They were joined by Leslie Van Houten and set off that night, eventually coming to the *****nca residence, where again Kasabian waited in the car as Manson and his crew murdered Leno and Rosemary *****nca. When asked why she went out again, this time knowingly to commit murder, Kasabian responded that when Manson asked her she was "afraid to say no."

The following night, Kasabian was asked by Manson to participate in the murder of an actor she knew, but she deliberately gave him the wrong apartment number and avoided the crime. Two days after the *****nca murders, she managed to flee the Manson Family and eventually returned to her mother's home in New Hampshire.

 

[N.Bailey]

Maybe we weren't ever given a name? This is from Linda Kasabian's testimony:

[Searching for still more victims]

"Then he looked at me and he said, 'What about that man you and Sandy met?' He said, 'Isn't he a piggy?' I said, 'Yes, he is an actor.' And then he further questioned me and he asked me if the man would let him in. And I said, 'Yes.' And he asked me if the man would let my friends in, Sadie and Clem. And I said, 'Yes.' And he said, 'Okay. I want you to kill him,' and he gave me a small pocket knife. And at this point I said, 'Charlie, I am not you, I cannot kill anybody.' And I don't know what took place at that moment, but I was very much afraid. And then he started to tell me how to go about doing it, and I remember I had the knife in my hand, and I asked him, With this? 'And he said, 'Yes,' and he showed me how to do it. He said, 'As soon as you enter the residence, the house, as soon as you see the man, slit his throat right away.' And he told Clem to shoot him. And then, also, he said if anything went wrong, you know, not to do it."

"What happened after you arrived at this man's apartment?"

"Charlie wanted me to show him where he lived."

"Did you do that?"

"Yes, I did."

"Did you get out of the car with Charlie?"

"Yes."

"What about Sadie and Clem?"

"No, they stayed behind."

"What is the next thing that happened?"

"We entered the building and we walked up the stairs. I am not sure in took him to the top floor-I am not sure exactly what floor I took him to. Then I pointed out a door which was not his door."

"Which was not the actor's door?"

"Yes."

"What is the next thing that happened?"

"Then we walked back downstairs to the car, and he gave Clem a gun."

"Charlie Manson gave him a gun?"

"Yes. At this point he said something--"

"When you say 'he,' you are talking about Charles Manson?"

"Yes. He said that if anything went wrong, you know, don't do it; and of course, to hitchhike back to the ranch, and for Sadie to go to the waterfall."

"Did either Clem or Sadie say anything to Mr. Manson at this point?"

"No, not that I know of"

"Then you say Charlie drove off?"

"Yes."

"What is the next thing that happened?"

"Clem, Sadie, and myself walked up-I believe I took them to the fourth floor, because I know I didn't go all the way to the top, and I went-as I entered the hallway, whatever it is, where all the doors are, I went straight to-to the first door, and I knocked. They hid behind the corner."

"When you say 'they,' you are referring to whom?"

"Sadie and Clem. And I knocked on the door, which I knew wasn't the door, and a man said, 'Who is it?' And I said, 'Linda.' And he sort of opened the door and peeked around the corner, and I just said, 'Oh, excuse me. Wrong door.' "

"And that was it? How long did you look at this man who opened the door?"

"Just for a split second."

http://www.members.tripod.com/~VanessaWest/kasabian.html

 

[N.Bailey]

Yes, Manson was very angry that Terry Melcher didn't think he (Manson) deserved a record contract...so Manson sent his loser followers to murder Melcher and Melcher's girlfriend...Candice Bergen...but they didn't live there any longer. Manson was a druggie, not too bright, but I'll stand by my original statement that he had charisma...if you haven't seen him talk you won't understand this. I think he is a loser, along w/ his followers.

I agree that he's a loser, but I've seen a couple interviews with him and I don't find him at all charismatic. He looks totally evil to me.

 

[mylilnikita]

I think that Tex Watson was allowed to have congical-spelling is wrong I know-visits. Could never figure out why he was allowed to do that. I was little when the Manson murders happened and we weren't even living in the states then. If Helter Skelter comes on, I have to watch it.
I went to school with this guy who always dressed nice and didnt act illiterate or anything. He was always friendly. Several years later, I was having lunch at a fast food place and he was there with his friend and he had gotten married and showed me a picture of his young son. About a year later, there was a murder in a nearby town of a guy who had gone to meet someone that wanted to buy his car. It was even on America's Most Wanted back in the day. Then one day, I am watching the news and it is the guy who I went to school with and saw that day on my lunch break from work and he had killed the guy for his car. His wife eventually turned him in after seeing the car, and the murdered guy's wallet, but she didnt turn him in as soon as she found the stuff. But he was the last person that I would think to do that, he seemed to have so much potential.
I always like Dominic Dunne's show. I remember his daughter played in Poltergeist was murdered by her boyfriend.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I think that Tex Watson was allowed to have congical-spelling is wrong I know-visits. Could never figure out why he was allowed to do that. I was little when the Manson murders happened and we weren't even living in the states then. If Helter Skelter comes on, I have to watch it.
.

He has married and has 3 children that live off welfare...The man who murdered an 8 month's pregnant woman,who was begging for the life of her baby,was allowed to have 3 kids...It makes me sick. Don't get me started
The Guy that killed Dominque Dunne was convicted of manslaghter and only served a few years..He's now a chef somewhere,I believe

 

[N.Bailey]

I think that Tex Watson was allowed to have congical-spelling is wrong I know-visits. Could never figure out why he was allowed to do that. I was little when the Manson murders happened and we weren't even living in the states then. If Helter Skelter comes on, I have to watch it.
I went to school with this guy who always dressed nice and didnt act illiterate or anything. He was always friendly. Several years later, I was having lunch at a fast food place and he was there with his friend and he had gotten married and showed me a picture of his young son. About a year later, there was a murder in a nearby town of a guy who had gone to meet someone that wanted to buy his car. It was even on America's Most Wanted back in the day. Then one day, I am watching the news and it is the guy who I went to school with and saw that day on my lunch break from work and he had killed the guy for his car. His wife eventually turned him in after seeing the car, and the murdered guy's wallet, but she didnt turn him in as soon as she found the stuff. But he was the last person that I would think to do that, he seemed to have so much potential.
I always like Dominic Dunne's show. I remember his daughter played in Poltergeist was murdered by her boyfriend.

I didn't know Dominique Dunne was Dominick Dunne's daughter. I always knew they shared the name (different spelling), but I had no idea.

The sentence the boyfriend got just makes me

 

[N.Bailey]

He has married and has 3 children that live off welfare...The man who murdered an 8 month's pregnant woman,who was begging for the life of her baby,was allowed to have 3 kids...It makes me sick. Don't get me started
The Guy that killed Dominque Dunne was convicted of manslaghter and only served a few years..He's now a chef somewhere,I believe

John Thomas Sweeney is a former chef who dated actress Dominique Dunne in the early 1980s and later strangled her following a domestic dispute. He was convicted of voluntary manslaughter after her death and given a prison sentence of six years for his crime, but was released after serving two and one half years.

Upon his release, he returned to his vocation as a chef, being hired by a restaurant in Santa Monica, California. However, Dunne's family made trouble for him there and he was fired. He then changed his name to 'John Maura' and moved to the northwest US.

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=hgp78dn51m6d?tname=john-thomas-sweeney&sbid=lc11a

I'd read elsewhere that the trouble the family created was them standing outside the restaurant where he worked handing out pamphlets that read something to the effect of, the hands that prepare your dinner tonight are the hands that murdered out daughter, sister, friend, Dominique Dunne.

I'd also read that one site keeps updates on him and tries to inform everyone where he's at and what he's doing. The site made him angry and he wrote that they'd better stop harassing him and that he'd served his time.

 

[mylilnikita]

He only served 2 and a half years?
Tex Watson's wife needs a boot to the head. getting welfare for breeding with him-eewww

 

[N.Bailey]

He only served 2 and a half years?
Tex Watson's wife needs a boot to the head. getting welfare for breeding with him-eewww

I completely agree with you about Tex Watson. I do feel sorry for those kids though. Can you imagine how life would be if he was your father?

Dominique also played an abuse victim in the TV show, Hill Street Blues. She was playing the part of an abused victim in the show and when she showed up to perform, she had so many bruises on her body that very little make-up was needed to pull the part off. Unfortunately, she died before the episode ever aired.

 

[Desiree]

Just subscribing to this thread too. I'm a huge true crime junkie as well. I read alot of Anne Rule's stuff and am fairly obsessed with the Black Dahlia case.

 

[wdw4us2]

Then, we get to hear that each of them comes up for parole. As if they deserve their freedom. Too bad when a state declares the death penalty unconstitutional, then reinstates it at a later time that the sentences can't be reinstated too. Sharon Tate's mother went to ever parole hearing till the time of her death. So, she got to be victimized all over again each time one was up for parole. It's sad that at the time of their sentencing there was no such thing as life without the possibility of parole even. So, they all got life sentences with the possibility of parole.

I agree with you 100%.

I read Helter Skelter when it first came out (I was in high school). I couldn't put it down until I'd finished it. That book gave me nightmares - I couldn't believe people could be that demented and evil. I read a lot of true crime books, but I find that after reading three or four in a row, I need a break. I then read a biography or a romance novel.

Of all the stories I've read, I think the ones about Ted Bundy are even scarier than Manson. If you ran into Manson somewhere, you would be on guard because he's so creepy. Ted Bundy looked like someone you could bring home to meet Mom - that's truly frightening!

 

[N.Bailey]

Just subscribing to this thread too. I'm a huge true crime junkie as well. I read alot of Anne Rule's stuff and am fairly obsessed with the Black Dahlia case.

I've had my points where I've been obsessed with The Black Dahlia case too. Here is a link and I can't stress enough that if you've got a week stomach, don't click on it.

I've seen crime scene photos of TONS of murder victims and these pics of Elizabeth Short are the worst ones I've ever seen in my life.

http://www.bethshort.com/eshort.htm

 

[N.Bailey]

I agree with you 100%.

I read Helter Skelter when it first came out (I was in high school). I couldn't put it down until I'd finished it. That book gave me nightmares - I couldn't believe people could be that demented and evil. I read a lot of true crime books, but I find that after reading three or four in a row, I need a break. I then read a biography or a romance novel.

Of all the stories I've read, I think the ones about Ted Bundy are even scarier than Manson. If you ran into Manson somewhere, you would be on guard because he's so creepy. Ted Bundy looked like someone you could bring home to meet Mom - that's truly frightening!

I've got the basics down on the Bundy case, but that's one I never really dug into. He definitely showed us that you can't judge a book by its cover though.

I loved how he was willing to work with the detectives to help solve the Green River murders. Anything to spare his own life! I'm glad they didn't take him up on the offer (though I do believe at least one met with him).

I'll never be one of those who rejoices as someone is executed, but I'm so glad he was "put down," if I can use the words of Dennis Radar, aka, BTK.

 

[Desiree]

Yea, I've been to that site before. It's a very interesting read. Speaking of reading... Have you read Severed or The Black Dahlia Avenger? Both are interesting reads if you get a chance!

 

[Jynohn]

I also consider myself a true crime junkie and DH always shakes his head in disbelief when he sees me reading whatever my latest book is. He is away a lot because of the military and I'm always obsessed with locking doors, etc. while he's gone to "keep away the serial killers." He can't understand why I continue to read that stuff when it so clearly upsets me.

I don't know why either, I just find it fascinating to think about what would lead a person to commit those acts. I actually went back to school recently to become a court reporter, and while I would never wish for a murder case to happen, I have always envied people who get to sit on juries (Scott Peterson trial, etc.) just a little bit and think working in a court room will be very interesting.

I read alot of Anne Rule's stuff and am fairly obsessed with the Black Dahlia case.

Here's an interesting tidbit if you watched last season of America's Next Top Model. The house that the girls stayed in was owned by the doctor who many believe to be the killer of Elizabeth Short. In fact, many people believe she was murdered in that very house

 

[Desiree]

Here's an interesting tidbit if you watched last season of America's Next Top Model. The house that the girls stayed in was owned by the doctor who many believe to be the killer of Elizabeth Short. In fact, many people believe she was murdered in that very house

Wow, that is really interesting! I didn't know that.

 

[N.Bailey]

Here's an interesting tidbit if you watched last season of America's Next Top Model. The house that the girls stayed in was owned by the doctor who many believe to be the killer of Elizabeth Short. In fact, many people believe she was murdered in that very house

I hear ya about hitting the panic buttons after reading up on all these cases. The one detective that worked the BTK case said every time he enters his house, he picks up the phone to make sure the lines weren't cut. ME? I ring the doorbell and if the dog doesn't bark, I don't enter.

That's really interesting that the Doc's house is the one in America's Next Top Model. I've never seen it, but now I want to. If I had to put my money on the line, the doc is who I feel is guilty.

If you get time, take a look at this site, there are some that believe the person responsible for Elizabeth Short's murder are also responsible for Jean Elizabeth Spangler's disappearance. I don't know that I believe that, but it's interesting none the less.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/spangler_jean.html

BTW: I didn't read either of those. Maybe one day I'll get around to em.