I hope this is ok to post

[WestCOT]

You're bothered that your assumedly 16-17-18-year-old grade 12 student learned about abortion in school?

Wow.

 

[Ember]

This was NOT made clear,thats my point.I dont see how a teacher telling a student she can not discuss something can have as many harmful effects as a teenage girl thinking abortion is birth control,having a abortion then dealing the the harmful effects she MAY have from that.My point has been made,I am not spending my day debating it.

Okay. I get that this discussion did not provide the support for your opinion that you seemed to be looking for. I also understand that you don't want a debate over it. So I'll end the education about abortion issue here.

But I do want to address the issue of harm when a teacher refuses to talk about an issue, particularly with regards to sexual education. Suppose there was a situation with a girl where she found herself attracted to other girls instead of boys. She might be very confused and not know where to go for information. Sex ed comes around and the question is asked about girls liking other girls. The teacher gives a line about how that's "not appropriate to discuss in class" and redirects the conversation. How is that girl left feeling? She may feel she's wrong for feeling as she does, that it's a dirty thing to feel, that it's not normal, and that it's not right to talk about it. When you're 12, those feeling can have a lasting impact. You could replace this scenario with dozens of other examples of situations children have been exposed to (from young pregnancy, to sexual abuse, to homosexuality) and each time the message that it's not okay to talk about is pretty harmful.

 

[Ohiodislover]

Okay. I get that this discussion did not provide the support for you opinion that you seemed to be looking for. I also understand that you don't want a debate over it.

Ding Ding Ding. Exactly

 

[Magpie]

This was NOT made clear,thats my point.I dont see how a teacher telling a student she can not discuss something can have as many harmful effects as a teenage girl thinking abortion is birth control,having a abortion then dealing the the harmful effects she MAY have from that.My point has been made,I am not spending my day debating it.

How about a middle road, in which the teacher is able to define clearly and factually exactly what abortion is, while at the same time stressing that it is a serious medical procedure and should always be viewed as a last resort?

Because really, this shouldn't come down to a choice between leaving kids ignorant and giving them impression that abortion is no big deal. I don't think either of those choices is acceptable.

 

[Magpie]

You're bothered that your assumedly 16-17-18-year-old grade 12 student learned about abortion in school?

Wow.

Er, no. I believe the child in question is 12 years old.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I guess what some of us are having trouble with is how else you would address it. By definition it is a form of birth control, it prevents the birth of a child. What it isn't, is a preventative form of birth control which should have been made clear.

Well, since you pointed this out... technically, pretty much everything we consider birth control is actually conception control... while abortion is one of the few forms of actual by-strict-definition birth control...

They know about most of these things already, but they know about them in an an incomplete and inaccurrate way.

My mom was old-school - everything I knew I learned from the Kotex booklet and a nature talk about birds and bees, followed by "don't do 'it' until you're married"
No explanation what 'it' was.

 

[Took]

As a parent who strongly believes that children should know that they can ask anything about sex. Refusing to answer a child's question in sex ed class teaches the exact opposite message. I would be very surprised if abortion didn't come up in the class, and very angry if it weren't addressed if it did.

There's a private school near me, where a child asked a teacher whether someone can have "2 mothers". The teacher told him that's the kind of thing you need to ask your parents, because it's not an "appropriate topic for school".

My child has 2 moms, me (via adoption) and the woman who gave birth to him. Reading stories all day long about some types of families, and then telling my child his family can't even be discussed, carries a huge value judgement.

Telling a child that abortion can't be discussed, carries a similar bias -- it tells the child how you feel about it, and is no more appropriate than telling the kids that you think abortion is a great idea. A teacher should do neither, instead she should stick to the facts.

ITA!

I understand that the teacher deviated somewhat from the "approved" curriculum, but her intention seems to have been to keep the lines of communication open.

I sometimes wonder why some people send their children to public schools (or any school) at all. Every small deviation from their pre-approved list of knowable subjects upsets them. Snowflakes, even though their parents won't agree with me, I'm sure.

My kid has and will learn about the world at school. She also learns at home and in any other setting that pops up. I want her to think her teachers are adults she can trust to talk about anything with that she needs to. I don't see them as enemies skulking along to pop evil info into her head.

End of rant.

 

[WestCOT]

Er, no. I believe the child in question is 12 years old.

Oh. Either way, I'm surprised she's got such an issue with it.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

I'm a former teacher who also taught sex ed. If the letter that was sent home stated the topics that they were "allowed" to cover, then the teacher should have had a response ready for a topic that was not pre-approved.

With that age group, she could have explained that there were topics that she was allowed to address in class and that she would speak to the student who asked the question privately or direct the student to ask that question at home.

If the list that was sent home was that specific, the teacher shouldn't have addressed it.

How long has it been since you were a teacher and how long ago did you teach sex ed?

 

[gina2000]

Did it ever occur to you that your DS misunderstood the information, just as he might have misunderstood a math concept? The question came up during a discussion about pregnancy prevention; that doesn't mean that the teacher confirmed that it was a form of preventative birth control. Rather, the teacher may have agreed that it was a form a birth control that was a last resort.

You can get hung up on how your son understood or misunderstood the information all you want but the reality is that it occurred at an appropriate juncture in the lesson. Twelve is not too early an age to learn about unpleasant subjects but rather a time to explore and explain how society and families view sensitive subject matter.... to be confirmed and further discussed at home in the privacy of the family unit.

 

[Ohiodislover]

Did it ever occur to you that your DS misunderstood the information, just as he might have misunderstood a math concept?

I asked this question too. OP did not respond. I asked if she spoke with other parents to see what their children took from the provided discussion. Seems to me like she just took what her son told her and ran to the teacher.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I asked this question too. OP did not respond. I asked if she spoke with other parents to see what their children took from the provided discussion. Seems to me like she just took what her son told her and ran to the teacher.

She discussed it with the teacher. Why make it look so negative? Discussed vs ran? The teacher stated she wasn't prepared for the question in class, the teacher wasn't happy with how it was conveyed. Something to that effect. So it seems to me the OP's concerns were valid. As a parent, if that subject is going to be broached, I'd want it done in a prepared, factual manner. There is nothing wrong with that expectation.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I asked this question too. OP did not respond. I asked if she spoke with other parents to see what their children took from the provided discussion. Seems to me like she just took what her son told her and ran to the teacher.

Which was the right thing to do. If a parent has a question about something I taught in class, I want them to come to me, not stir things up by going behind my back.

Kids misinterpret all the time, and as a teacher I want to know what they're taking home from what I say so I can be more clear next time. My 4 year old, for example, came home from school and said that the dentist told them not to worry about candy and tooth brushing because those teeth were falling out anyway. I laughed, corrected his thinking, and let the teacher know so she could mention to the dentist to be a little more clear on this point.

I hope the OP did so politely, and phrased it as asking for clarification, but if your child comes home from school with a misunderstanding, then sharing that understanding with me is what helps me address it.

 

[WDWFWfan]

I will probably get flamed for this, but there is no way that I would want my child's teacher talking about abortion in a class room. Or course, neither do I want my child receiving birth control at school or being taught that sex before marriage is okay.

It is a spiritual/ethical decision for me. Therefore, unless both sides of the debate will be presented in a unbiased fashion (which will never happen), leave it for the parents.

 

[Aneille]

Did it ever occur to you that your DS misunderstood the information, just as he might have misunderstood a math concept? The question came up during a discussion about pregnancy prevention; that doesn't mean that the teacher confirmed that it was a form of preventative birth control. Rather, the teacher may have agreed that it was a form a birth control that was a last resort.

You can get hung up on how your son understood or misunderstood the information all you want but the reality is that it occurred at an appropriate juncture in the lesson. Twelve is not too early an age to learn about unpleasant subjects but rather a time to explore and explain how society and families view sensitive subject matter.... to be confirmed and further discussed at home in the privacy of the family unit.

I agree with this.

Misunderstanding happens in all subjects and as a parent its our job to clarify things.

Whether your son misunderstood the teacher or not, I would celebrate the fact that your son is talking to you about it and you had the opportunity to have an open discussion with him. And know he knows your families point of view and he has a clearer understanding of what abortion is.

And I am surprised that abortion was not being approved for discussion. Political, and religious points of view can be removed from the discussion. Just as it is for other topics discussed at school.

Unfortunately at 12 years old, he probably has met a young girl that has had an abortion, he just may not know it.

 

[FireDancer]

I will probably get flamed for this, but there is no way that I would want my child's teacher talking about abortion in a class room. Or course, neither do I want my child receiving birth control at school or being taught that sex before marriage is okay.

It is a spiritual/ethical decision for me. Therefore, unless both sides of the debate will be presented in a unbiased fashion (which will never happen), leave it for the parents.

I won't flame you. I very much disagree with you but you do have your right to your beliefs. I do have a serious question though and don't mean this snarkily or sarcastically. If you had such strong beliefs that are spiritually based wouldn't you send your kids to a school that shared the same belief structure? This isn't a judgment of the validity of what you believe but a public institution will teach a more science based curriculum (evolution vs creationism for example).

 

[Mickey's Minion]

ok I think some people are just not reading the whole post...it has NOTHING to do with KNOWING about abortion...it was talked about in the form of birth control which I do NOT want them thinking.My kids are not snowflakes people...they run around the neighborhood and play on their own, I let them go places without me and I dont gripe their teachers out for telling little jonny about our surprise wdw trip! I just simply was not ok with learning about abortion as birth control...my kids know about sex,we have had the talk ect ect....I do not hover at all but even though I am PRO CHOICE I think it is MY choice to let my child know it should be a fail safe for sex...they need to know to use protecting so they dont die from HIV.They need to know if you have sex you have to be safe, and YES I think there is a aftermath for people that choose abortion.They need to know these things and not just have a word like abortion just tossed out.This is a 1 week class,plenty of time to not brush over the details if this is what they want to teach.

So, you are saying the teacher did not discuss other forms of birth control at all? She did not discuss protection from sexually transmitted diseases? She ONLY discussed abortion, in answer to a child's question, as a form of birth control.

Was birth control not on the curriculum list at all?

If she only discussed abortion, then yes, you have a right to be upset.

However, if she was discussing birth control and a child raised his/her hand and said "what about abortion?" I would expect the teacher to answer, whether on the appropriate list or not.

And as others have said, you are going by how your son interpreted the discussion. You were not in the classroom, so you do not know how she answered the question. So, I say kudos to the teacher for nudging you into a needed discussion in your home. (and I say needed only because your child had a question about it.)

The hallmark of a good teacher is one who encourages thought, discussion and questions.

As a parent, I not only assume, but expect deviations from the curriculum, in any class, as children come up with questions. I expect the teacher to answer the questions and then guide the class back towards the curriculum. But I want kids to come up with thoughtful questions and would be disappointed if any teacher said she could not answer a question with factual information.

I too had the sex ed class, long ago, where the bespectacled, hair in a bun, shriveled prune (in our middle school eyes) teacher stood up in the front and told us the parts of the body and gave us snippets of facts with no discussion allowed. Stuck to the curriculum and no questions were allowed. Thank goodness I was raised by a couple of hippies where sex was openly discussed. Most of my classmates were equally informed, so the lecture method of sex ed only solicited giggles and playground gossip of whether the teacher knew anything about sex to even be able to teach the class.

Since we were not allowed to discuss the topics we were really interested in during class, we took this off-curriculum discussion to the playground where all sorts of misinformation was shared. It would have been much better to have a teacher control this discussion, even if it was not on the curriculum, to dispel incorrect information. Much better to have facts come from a teacher than "facts" coming from your 12 year old peer. You know, the dangerous kind like you can't get pregnant without intercourse. Or, my sister's boyfriend's best friend's girlfriend went to some guy in Alley B and when she came back wasn't pregnant anymore.

Anybody watch Dirty Dancing? Abortion is all over the place, in tv, movies, on billboards, etc. I would much rather have a teacher answer a question with factual information, even if it is not on the curriculum.

Schools these days have more topics to discuss in sex ed classes, so more discussion needed. The teacher did nothing wrong answering a child's question which was totally pertinent to the topic being taught.

 

[DisMN]

I will probably get flamed for this, but there is no way that I would want my child's teacher talking about abortion in a class room. Or course, neither do I want my child receiving birth control at school or being taught that sex before marriage is okay.

It is a spiritual/ethical decision for me. Therefore, unless both sides of the debate will be presented in a unbiased fashion (which will never happen), leave it for the parents.

I see you have a 10 and 12 year old at home. Have you talked about these subjects with them yet?

If not when?

 

[Mickey's Minion]

I will probably get flamed for this, but there is no way that I would want my child's teacher talking about abortion in a class room. Or course, neither do I want my child receiving birth control at school or being taught that sex before marriage is okay.

It is a spiritual/ethical decision for me. Therefore, unless both sides of the debate will be presented in a unbiased fashion (which will never happen), leave it for the parents.

And that is why, as a parent, you are allowed to have your child opt out of sex ed in school.

I cannot fathom any parent believing that children are not going to ask questions or that a discussion may take an unexpected turn in a school setting with a group of middle schoolers.

Children are going to make comments in class regarding their beliefs and other children are going to hear that.

 

[PebblesMom]

Sex ed is such a hard subject because you're dancing around topics that parents have such varying opinions on. You recognize that some students are very well informed and that this is nothing new to them, while others have little to no knowledge. (To those thinking, "but you teach grade one!" in our school we cover sex ed over two days splitting up the boys and girls in each class, so extra teachers are called in to help. I had the grade 5 girls.) It's a very touchy subject and the students will test to see if you're going to be honest.

If you get to questions and don't answer, then you've proved that you're not a source of information and that trust is broken. I tried to keep information as factual as possible and did try to keep all points of view in mind. I think the teacher did a great job, and am sorry to hear that next time there's a question on the subject, she'll refuse to answer it. Even if you don't agree with her, she has now opened up discussion on your own home for you to share your opinions with your child.

I completely agree with this. I see schools as a place to learn facts (good or bad) and I as a parent want to be the one to teach beliefs and opinions. OP I do understand what your saying and it may have bothered me too, but I also remember my sex-ed class in 7th grade and we had a teacher that was pretty shy and the kids just hammered him with questions and the more he didn't answer the more out of control the class got and it just ended up in chaos. I did not even know some of the things that were being discussed by my peers and my Mom had always been pretty straightforward and honest when talking about sex. I think even the teacher was pretty shocked by what the kids were asking!