I hate to say it , and I hope I'm wrong , but ...

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm just going with my gut here...because there is no data/proof...but I bet a large number of the FD patrons do NOT spend significant money on drinks, appetizers, upsells. I'd also bet they don't do it for merch - which is even a bigger deal. If they did - Disney would continue the promo forever...
The fact they are strangling it indicates that "added revenue" is not being realized.

Just a hunch based on experience.

I'm still shocked when people were telling me that they know lots of people that DONT Tip on the dining plan a few months back.

Which is inexcusable and nearly criminal. Taking it out on the little guy and egregiously so.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Oh my gosh! Do you remember all of the discussions that took place when that DDP was in place? I was shocked at the conversations, but not suprised when Disney responded by removing the Appetizer and tip.

It was as subtle as the Reichstag fire...but I got criticized for being "too negative" and on the soapbox at the time...

Ehh...whatever

 

[Josh Hendy]

I'm still shocked when people were telling me that they know lots of people that DONT Tip on the dining plan a few months back.

Which is inexcusable and nearly criminal. Taking it out on the little guy and egregiously so.

Not excusable, but not too surprising if this happens. Given the fairly muddled conception and evolution of the plan and the even more muddled perception of the plan by some of its customers. Its purpose and value seem obscure to many people ... not everyone of course, we see lots of level-headed and cooly rational assessments on these boards. But it's definitely muddled.

It's free or it's not free. The restaurants are good or they're not good, or their quality is slipping. We like to eat a lot but do we like to eat that much? The hotel rooms at the center of the incentive are good value at rack rate or a bad value? Are the park tickets with hoppers good value or not? How many extras ... like tips ... can we afford after popping for such a tremendously expensive trip, whose value for money is not always clear?

Long story short, if someone on the FD plan is foregoing the tip I'm guessing that they're around 50% confused, 50% p-o'd and resentful.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Long story short, if someone on the FD plan is foregoing the tip I'm guessing that they're around 50% confused, 50% p-o'd and resentful.

Then they should 100% stay home/go elsewhere.

No excuse. I don't like the fact they have JACKED the prices into oblivion (dining plan again) and the tips have risen like the tide with it...but I'm not gonna take it out on the tags.

To be fair...that gratuity - if you're on a budget - is significant. It can be $200-$400 a week if you're staying 5+ nights. Nothing to scoff at. It's a month of groceries. Not minor at all. Driven up by the price adjustments done in consort with the Dining plan.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Then they should 100% stay home/go elsewhere.

No excuse. I don't like the fact they have JACKED the prices into oblivion (dining plan again) and the tips have risen like the tide with it...but I'm not gonna take it out on the tags.

To be fair...that gratuity - if you're on a budget - is significant. It can be $200-$400 a week if you're staying 5+ nights. Nothing to scoff at. It's a month of groceries. Not minor at all. Driven up by the price adjustments done in consort with the Dining plan.

It's a similar attitude - and cause - when people react to jacked-up parking fees by angling for free parking at resorts, Springs and water parks.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It's a similar attitude - and cause - when people react to jacked-up parking fees by angling for free parking at resorts, Springs and water parks.

Parking attendants/security guards are not tipped positions

 

[beer dave]

Parking attendants/security guards are not tipped positions

I can't agree more with this. It disgusts me. It is the standard idealism of certain people where they think they are the exception to the rule. This follows through with many other park behaviors, but the non tipping is by far the leader of the pack. It is outright stealing.

 

[TechRavingMad]

I read this and it did change my perspective some about tipping.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/

 

[UncleMike101]

I read this and it did change my perspective some about tipping.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/

When I'm tipping someone I'm color, race, ethnicity, religion, accent, hair color, tattoo, body weight, and any of the other things that make us individuals, blind.
I usually tip 20% for good service and I seldom feel like the person waiting on us is doing a poor job.
As long as they treat us like we're a guest and not a cash cow I'm happy to tip them well.
I also tip with cash instead of letting Management divvy up the tip on the credit cards whenever they do weekly wages.
Somehow I can't get over the nagging suspicion that some Managers don't always give the Wait Staff the amount of tip money that is due to them.

 

[crazymomof4]

I'm just going with my gut here...because there is no data/proof...but I bet a large number of the FD patrons do NOT spend significant money on drinks, appetizers, upsells. I'd also bet they don't do it for merch - which is even a bigger deal. If they did - Disney would continue the promo forever...
The fact they are strangling it indicates that "added revenue" is not being realized.

Just a hunch based on experience.

I'm still shocked when people were telling me that they know lots of people that DONT Tip on the dining plan a few months back.

Which is inexcusable and nearly criminal. Taking it out on the little guy and egregiously so.

I can only speak for our party, but when we get FD I feel like it "free's up" $ to spend elsewhere. I'm budget conscious to the bone, but if I can save a substantial amount in one area, I feel comfortable "shifting" some of my dollars to spending more than I normally would have in other areas. For example, IF we get free dining, DH and DSs will be scheduling golf and DD and I will prob schedule a trail ride at FW.
And we always tip generously for good service bc I have (as well as 2 of our sons) spent time working as servers.

 

[IrishNYC]

I seriously hope that Disney does away with "free dining" as an incentive to book hotel rooms. Being a DVC member, and now living nearby, I never had free dining. But I was affected by it because of the dumbing down of the food in the various restaurants. Maybe when free dining goes away the restaurant people will return to quality food and service to attract customers.

Man, I hope so. DH and I are foodies, and we were somewhat shocked by how bad the food was at WDW. For QS the quality expected what I got for the most part, but TS was mostly below where we hoped it would be.

I have to say i few things shock me on this and all "free dining watch" threads:

2. If they don't do it - what do the tens of thousands of people that book it "preemptively" waiting for money back do? Thats a serious question…what do you do? I bet disney knows to a near statistical certainty…if you plant a lemon - you get a lemon…not an orange or an apple.

I won't answer for anyone else,but I will speak for me.


2. I never speculate about a discount. I book for the dates I plan to visit. If I am plan to go for the discount dates, I wait. Booking and then hoping a discount appears , knowing I will have to cancel if I cannot apply said discount, seems horrible to me. If a discount is offered for the timeframe I booked, I call and apply it.

No one should speculate about the discount. Pre-booking in hopes of getting a discount is bad for a few reasons:
1. Disney sees rooms booked well in advance of any discount offering, there's no incentive to offer a discount.
2. Booking your resort stay for dates X through Y during the anticipated free dining offer often results in a call that ends up with the traveler being disappointed that the discount isn't available for that block of days, and now they had to book for X-1 through Y+1 to get the "discount". I saw many complaints of this happening last year.
3. The discount is always for NEW bookings. It's not for changing your already existing booking. Disney is under no obligation to honor that discount on your speculated reservation, and I kind of hate that they do, because it sets an expectation for the future. "But Disney used to let me rebook with the discount! Boohoo! It's not fair!"

When Disney inevitably does away with "free" dining, what will all those who booked rooms on speculation put the blame on?

 

[Dean Marino]

Thank you, WDW. Just Thank you.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Thank you, WDW. Just Thank you.

Tossing molotovs again, eh?

 

[manning]

You're right , nothing is ever really free , however , if and when the $15/night resort fee goes into effect in essence we'll be paying more for things like wifi , Magical Express , EMH , etc . . So , we'll be paying twice for these services because they were already built into the price of your room rate .

If the park buses are part of resort fee they do something about those who park at Disney Springs to avoid the park parking fees.

 

[manning]

"Free Dining" has always been an illusion anyway. It's not really free, you're paying full price for a room to get it. I've never understood why people get so excited about it.

Try explaining that to those who think it's free.

 

[Davey Jones II]

Try explaining that to those who think it's free.

If you go to WDW during peak season, you'll pay full rack rate, and you won't get free dining, either.

Lots of people explained at great lengths why free dining works for them. They even provided numbers. These people are not stupid. They have made calcuations to figure out what is the best deal for them. If you have 3-4 people sharing a value resort room, and all of you can get fed all day just by splitting the hotel cost between you, then your group is absolutely getting a bargain. I don't see why that's so hard to understand. And I definitely don't get that particular species of snobbery that sneers at free dining and those who partake of it.

As for the tipping comments above...I guess that's why we can have waiters making 80K per year. People think they're obligated to shell out a ridiculous 18-20% on an overpriced meal. Why not 25, 30%? I suppose that's what people in tipped positions will be asking for, in a few years.

I remember when waiters used to expect 15%. Now we've got tip inflation, to go along with regular inflation. And, of course, everyone and his uncle now has a tip jar.

I guess a WDW waiter is entitled to make more than a nurse or accountant -- and five times more than a CM.

We had some pizza sent to our room on out last trip, at All Star Sports. The pizza took forever to show up, and when I looked at the bill, they had automatically added 18% tip. The kicker? There was a spot at the bottom to write in a further gratuity (oh, but it was optional). Gee, thanks. If I hadn't realized that I already got zapped for 18% on my late pizza, I could have added even more! I didn't know I looked like a walking piggy bank.

 

[Mofang]

I don't think anyone is objecting to people who carefully run the numbers on free dining and determine they come out ahead. For large families in moderately priced rooms, it can be a killer deal.

It's the people who go the dining plan route because of "convenience" or "budgeting" reasons, or because they don't want to think about what they're paying while on vacation. In many of those cases, they're often not actually saving money. I (and many others) see that as poor monetary planning - you're basically giving Disney extra money to avoid thinking about giving them money.

Outside the parks, a good comparison is credit card usage. Many people don't use credit cards because they don't trust themselves to use them responsibly... but that strategy is in itself irresponsible. Used correctly, a good rewards card is a much, much smarter choice than a debit card or cash - you can get paid 1-2% on all your purchases, you don't have to pay for almost a month so your money keeps earning interest in your bank account longer, and you're protected much better against fraud since your own money isn't at stake. If you pay your bill in full every time, you never pay interest at all - yet you're improving your credit score every month as you make your everyday purchases. The only time I ever use a debit card is at an ATM to withdraw cash...

Take a few minutes to add up what you are likely to eat during your trip. If the numbers work out well in favor of your family with free dining, by all means take advantage of it. But make sure you run the numbers first with a critical eye - if you're an adult couple staying in a Deluxe, for example, it's very unlikely to work in your favor. If taking a room discount instead is a wash or a better deal, it can actually make your vacation less stressful to pay cash because you don't feel obligated to use up all your entitlements.

If dining sounds attractive because you can eat what you want without worrying about cost - but the calculators say paying cash is a better deal - how about putting the money you would have paid for the dining plan and tips on a Disney gift card? Bring that with you and use it to pay for all your meals - heck, put a label on it and write Dining Plan, then tell yourself you now have a dining plan . You'll have the same relaxed vacation, total flexibility about where and when you eat - and a surprise amount left over at the end to buy some souvenirs to take home with what you saved.

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't think anyone is objecting to people who carefully run the numbers on free dining and determine they come out ahead. For large families in moderately priced rooms, it can be a killer deal.

It's the people who go the dining plan route because of "convenience" or "budgeting" reasons, or because they don't want to think about what they're paying while on vacation. In many of those cases, they're often not actually saving money. I (and many others) see that as poor monetary planning - you're basically giving Disney extra money to avoid thinking about giving them money.

Outside the parks, a good comparison is credit card usage. Many people don't use credit cards because they don't trust themselves to use them responsibly... but that strategy is in itself irresponsible. Used correctly, a good rewards card is a much, much smarter choice than a debit card or cash - you can get paid 1-2% on all your purchases, you don't have to pay for almost a month so your money keeps earning interest in your bank account longer, and you're protected much better against fraud since your own money isn't at stake. If you pay your bill in full every time, you never pay interest at all - yet you're improving your credit score every month as you make your everyday purchases. The only time I ever use a debit card is at an ATM to withdraw cash...

Take a few minutes to add up what you are likely to eat during your trip. If the numbers work out well in favor of your family with free dining, by all means take advantage of it. But make sure you run the numbers first with a critical eye - if you're an adult couple staying in a Deluxe, for example, it's very unlikely to work in your favor. If taking a room discount instead is a wash or a better deal, it can actually make your vacation less stressful to pay cash because you don't feel obligated to use up all your entitlements.

If dining sounds attractive because you can eat what you want without worrying about cost - but the calculators say paying cash is a better deal - how about putting the money you would have paid for the dining plan and tips on a Disney gift card? Bring that with you and use it to pay for all your meals - heck, put a label on it and write Dining Plan, then tell yourself you now have a dining plan . You'll have the same relaxed vacation, total flexibility about where and when you eat - and a surprise amount left over at the end to buy some souvenirs to take home with what you saved.

I think that people can choose whatever works for them, and that I do not have the right to suggest that their methods makes no sense, or are not sound. I don't care why people use the DDP. It could be becasue they save or because they find that when they have the plan in place they are "free" to choose whatever they want on the menu. Whatever the reason, it the plan works for them it is the right decision.

My DH is the most fiscally sound person that I know, but if I told you the method he uses to save money you would think he lost his mind. But it works for him, and in turn for us. I used to tease him, (and still do) but when we enlarged and renovated our home and paid cash for all but a set of cabinets, no one was teasing him. When We vacation I tell him how much the cost is, and he wants the DDP included so he knows upfront how much food will be, and that noone will cringe looking at the cost. It works for us, and honestly, as I said, my DH is the best money manager I know.

 

[Mofang]

I think that people can choose whatever works for them, and that I do not have the right to suggest that their methods makes no sense, or are not sound. I don't care why people use the DDP. It could be becasue they save or because they find that when they have the plan in place they are "free" to choose whatever they want on the menu. Whatever the reason, it the plan works for them it is the right decision.

The trick is, there actually is a right answer, financially: for every guest there is a best strategy that costs you the least money for the amount you want to eat on your vacation. Sometimes, there may be two options to choose between - a slightly lower cash price that's the best price for less food or a slightly higher dining plan cost that's the best price with more food - and then it comes down to your preferences and whether you value that extra "included" food. Or it could be a clear savings with DDP, or a clear situation where cash saves you money. But you have to actually run the numbers to figure that out.

If DDP saves you money, fantastic. Or if DDP costs a few extra dollars over cash for the base meal but actually ends up saving you money once you factor in the included desserts - that's rational too!

But if you're just picking it because you want a fixed price for food on your trip, yet cash is actually the cheaper option when ordering the food you'd like - it's really hard to justify the DDP from an economic standpoint.

If it's just the freedom to order anything or fixed price aspects that appeal in a situation like that, the gift card trick I suggested can give you much of the same psychological freedom and let you feel free to order what you like without making you handle cash during your trip.

Of course, you're welcome to do whatever you like, and clearly the dining plan is very popular. But I think the marketing promise of "free dining" is really intoxicating - who doesn't like a literal free lunch? - and that can be a distraction from evaluating it objectively when the dining plan is at its core just a way to prepay for your meals. Sometimes that's a great deal - but sometimes it isn't, and all I'm saying is that you need to add up your intended purchases and make sure you're actually getting a good deal before springing for it.

Most bloggers and DIS'ers would rather see people get the best deal and not give Disney any unnecessary money, which is why I think this issue keeps coming up in so many discussions... the posts harping on this issue are coming from a good place because we want to see people getting the most for their vacation dollar!

 

[TeresaWen]

Some of the disdain for free dining come from the perception that prior to it dining was much easier to book, less expensive, and of much higher quality.