I guess DCL won this one...

[PrincessShmoo]

its a policy issue for some guests

(Bolding mine) - yep!

 

[eskimoinparadise]

They are only really hurting loyal Disney customers!

Bingo!!! The more often you cruise on a given line, the less you tend to spend on board - fewer shore excursions, less merchandise from the shops, etc. A newbie, on the other hand is a spending machine. I can just hear the conversation in the boardroom: How do we get rid of the repeat cruisers and make room for more new blood. How about systematically eliminating all of the perks we gave them to get them to come back. OBB increase by loyalty level - POOF; extra goodies in the cabin - POOF; BYOB - POOF. Hey Bob, what else have we missed that we can cut???

 

[tinkerone]

myself, i'm a bit worried that they will indeed bring in a drinks package. that could bring in the 'i must drink to get my moneys worth' mentality which i have already seen from reading some posts. 5 drinks and i get my moneys worth, six and i'm ahead of the game, etc. etc.
if this does happen, the happy people who rejoice at the change may very well be the ones upset. there could be a lot more people drinking and a lot more problems.
again, its an issue that only time will tell, plus there has yet to be a drinks announcement so it may never happen.

 

[perditax]

I was just sitting here reading the thread and wondering how long DCL would wait to announce the drinks packages to avoid looking tacky (i.e., how long before people forget they're mad and there's a new wave of new cruisers anyway, 4-6 months?), but on the other hand I wonder how the alcohol math breaks down for the typical DCL cruiser.

Maybe they are less likely to buy a drinks package and more likely to spend roughly the same amount per day (what is it, about $50/day for a typical mass market basic drinks package?) on buying individual drinks instead, which would potentially be more profitable for the cruise line? I bet they'll be watching those Oct/Nov mixed drink sales closely.

I know there are a lot of people who will buy the dining plans in the parks even if it's proven to cost them more in the long run, but I'm not sure a drinks package is the same beast. Thoughts?

Disclaimer: I don't drink so I don't know the break-even point on cruise drink packages. I'm also going on the assumption that they are usually more or less de-facto 'all you can drink'.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

myself, i'm a bit worried that they will indeed bring in a drinks package. that could bring in the 'i must drink to get my moneys worth' mentality which i have already seen from reading some posts. 5 drinks and i get my moneys worth, six and i'm ahead of the game, etc. etc.
if this does happen, the happy people who rejoice at the change may very well be the ones upset. there could be a lot more people drinking and a lot more problems.
again, its an issue that only time will tell, plus there has yet to be a drinks announcement so it may never happen.

I am not sure if there ever will be any more specials/ packages... If there is, I believe it will be more a wine or beer type(they already have the Beer mug package). However you are right time will tell.


AKK

 

[Don Duck]

For all of the folks that will be sailing their Last Cruise with DCL, make sure you note this on your survey card at the end of your cruise. I also think it would be important to list any cruises you've booked with the competition.

DCL removed the comments section sometime ago. They used to ask more specific questions on the survey, but I guess they did not want to know or read the responses. There isn't much space to write anything - not even that you liked a specific cast member. We have to write a separate letter, then hand deliver to Guest Services. The odd thing about all of this is ... most successful businesses know it is much easier to retain an existing customer, than to attract a new customer. Honestly, I really don't think they care. Perhaps Roy E. Disney got it right when he criticized Eisner for mismanaging the company during the second "Save Disney campaign, when he said the Walt Disney Company was turning into a "rapacious, soul-less" conglomerate.

We've been DCL Platinum for some time ... but have not booked future cruises on three of our last four DCL cruises. We have two more on the books as we speak ... will likely book only one as a dummy to extend the two year time frame for on-board booking discount, then combine deposits of cruises which are expiring. It's a shame (as some have said), DCL provides nearly nothing to Platinum Club members. Most other cruise lines provide similar (or better) perks for returning customers with a single cruise under their belt.

We are DVC members as well, and though we still use our membership, we are exchanging outside of Disney. When we do visit WDW, we find ourselves staying at a resort, but do not necessarily go into the parks.

 

[squirk]

The odd thing about all of this is ... most successful businesses know it is much easier to retain an existing customer, than to attract a new customer.

I don't think that particular business axiom applies to Disney Parks & Resorts (including DCL) right now. People are almost literally beating a path to their door.

 

[JimmyV]

Bingo!!! The more often you cruise on a given line, the less you tend to spend on board - fewer shore excursions, less merchandise from the shops, etc. A newbie, on the other hand is a spending machine. I can just hear the conversation in the boardroom: How do we get rid of the repeat cruisers and make room for more new blood. How about systematically eliminating all of the perks we gave them to get them to come back. OBB increase by loyalty level - POOF; extra goodies in the cabin - POOF; BYOB - POOF. Hey Bob, what else have we missed that we can cut???

Yup. There are people with 30+ cruises under their belts who have convinced themselves that they are DCL's "best customers". To the contrary. Many of them, (though not all) are the worst. They know to book early to get the lowest price. They know all the tricks of the trade to save money on drinks. They know to book excursions from independent vendors. They stopped buying tacky photos years ago. And on and on and on. It is heartbreaking to think that the company you love so much would rather see you take your business elsewhere so that it can replace you with a newbie with an open wallet, but it is the truth.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

DCL removed the comments section sometime ago. They used to ask more specific questions on the survey, but I guess they did not want to know or read the responses. There isn't much space to write anything - not even that you liked a specific cast member. We have to write a separate letter, then hand deliver to Guest Services. The odd thing about all of this is ... most successful businesses know it is much easier to retain an existing customer, than to attract a new customer. Honestly, I really don't think they care. Perhaps Roy E. Disney got it right when he criticized Eisner for mismanaging the company during the second "Save Disney campaign, when he said the Walt Disney Company was turning into a "rapacious, soul-less" conglomerate.

We've been DCL Platinum for some time ... but have not booked future cruises on three of our last four DCL cruises. We have two more on the books as we speak ... will likely book only one as a dummy to extend the two year time frame for on-board booking discount, then combine deposits of cruises which are expiring. It's a shame (as some have said), DCL provides nearly nothing to Platinum Club members. Most other cruise lines provide similar (or better) perks for returning customers with a single cruise under their belt.

We are DVC members as well, and though we still use our membership, we are exchanging outside of Disney. When we do visit WDW, we find ourselves staying at a resort, but do not necessarily go into the parks.

Yes, the comment card only has like 2 lines for "further comments". But there's a way around that.

I've taken additional paper (or used the letterhead stationary in the desk in the room) to write out many comments. Just attached it directly to the comment card, and folded them all together to put in the comment card box at Guest Services.

I know they read them, because I've always gotten a "thank you for your input" email with specific comments addressing what I wrote. Not just a generic "Thank you".

 

[squirk]

Yup. There are people with 30+ cruises under their belts who have convinced themselves that they are DCL's "best customers". To the contrary. Many of them, (though not all) are the worst. They know to book early to get the lowest price. They know all the tricks of the trade to save money on drinks. They know to book excursions from independent vendors. They stopped buying tacky photos years ago. And on and on and on. It is heartbreaking to think that the company you love so much would rather see you take your business elsewhere so that it can replace you with a newbie with an open wallet, but it is the truth.

^ Can I triple-"like" this? 100% spot-on.

 

[TChrist05]

Yup. There are people with 30+ cruises under their belts who have convinced themselves that they are DCL's "best customers". To the contrary. Many of them, (though not all) are the worst. They know to book early to get the lowest price. They know all the tricks of the trade to save money on drinks. They know to book excursions from independent vendors. They stopped buying tacky photos years ago. And on and on and on. It is heartbreaking to think that the company you love so much would rather see you take your business elsewhere so that it can replace you with a newbie with an open wallet, but it is the truth.

JimmyV--you are so right and you really made me think about it. After 36 cruises we don't spend the kind of money in the shop--buy the limited edition pins etc. I would say in the last 10 cruises most of our shore excursions we booked ourselves or someone cruising with us organized it. They don't get as much money out of us now. We are replaceable...oh! that really hurts.

 

[Orukal]

Perhaps people could see your side of all of this if you could define what it is you mean when you use the word "abuse". Comments like this naturally cause others to say, (and it happened again in this thread), "I have never seen the abuse of which you speak". But the problem might be that something that you see as "abuse" someone else sees as "legitimate". So the two of you might be seeing the same thing but interpreting them differently. You seem to have a pretty good handle on what Disney considers to be abuse. I am not aware of any published guidelines, but obviously you are part of the inner circle and know what is abusive and what is not. So...

With respect to bottles of wine, how many bottles could one bring on before they are found to be abusing the system? One bottle per day per adult couple? One bottle per day per adult person? However many bottles it takes such that the guest spends no money on wine while on the ship?

With respect to beer, how much was "legitimate personal consumption" and when does it cross the line into "abuse"? Three bottles per adult per day? Six bottles per adult per day? Whatever amount causes one to drink only their beers without buying more from the ship? Whatever amount makes one "choke on your own vomit" drunk?

And with respect to spirits, how much could one bring on board and still be non-abusive, and at what point does one cross the line into abusiveness? What did Disney consider to be the the proper amount, and how much did passengers bring on to get them labeled as "abusers"?

Once we have answers to these questions, then I think we can have an intelligent conversation about personal experiences and whether or not "abuse" was taking place, and whether or not such abuse was witnessed widely by the guests on the ship. If "abuse" means bringing on three bottle of wine or a six-pack of beer, then I think that you are right on the money and abuse was running rampant. But if abuse means that people were bringing on so much alcohol that people were staining the carpets with their vomit on a nightly basis, then I'd have to say, no, I did not see that type of abuse. Until we define "abuse", we cannot have this discussion.

I have to stop and consider my own definition of "Abuse" since the outcome of that "Abuse" is still permitted, but we just have to pay DCL for that privilege.

 

[darkwing818]

Yes, the comment card only has like 2 lines for "further comments". But there's a way around that.

I've taken additional paper (or used the letterhead stationary in the desk in the room) to write out many comments. Just attached it directly to the comment card, and folded them all together to put in the comment card box at Guest Services.

I know they read them, because I've always gotten a "thank you for your input" email with specific comments addressing what I wrote. Not just a generic "Thank you".

Thanks Shmoo for beating to the punch. Mine was the original post about adding comments to the survey. You noted exactly what we do, using the DCL stationary in the desk, for good & "not so good" comments. And yes they are absolutely read.....

 

[Rogillio]

Oh, I think we'll know when the beverage packages go live.



I don't think you dine out much.

http://nocorkagefees.com/

LOL. Yeah, I don't get out much. ;-)

SMH

 

[steves100]

Purely as a guess on my part, but possibly DCL felt the hard alcohol was causing more of an issue than beer or wine. Yes, people can still abuse the (new) policy by bringing such items into the public spaces, but with the more limited supply, maybe people won't as much.

I will still bring my Corona on deck and to the shuffle board, obviously not as many

 

[tinkerone]

Bingo!!! The more often you cruise on a given line, the less you tend to spend on board - fewer shore excursions, less merchandise from the shops, etc. A newbie, on the other hand is a spending machine. I can just hear the conversation in the boardroom: How do we get rid of the repeat cruisers and make room for more new blood. How about systematically eliminating all of the perks we gave them to get them to come back. OBB increase by loyalty level - POOF; extra goodies in the cabin - POOF; BYOB - POOF. Hey Bob, what else have we missed that we can cut???

i've been thinking about this a lot. it made so much sense however the more i thought about it the more i felt that while the theory is right, it didn't all quite fit. i have a friend who worked on the magic and he said the dream was the cash cow for dcl and for the exact reasons you have said. twice as many people in a week, twice as many sales of the same things.

the part that bothers me is a lesson i learned years and years ago. i worked for a very very large business and we learned to keep the repeats happy. while we could lose money doing it, they were the free advertisement, the word of mouth. people talk bad about a company five times more that they talk good. so you annoyed a client and they would tell five who would tell five and so on. thats why i think dcl doing things to get repeaters to not come back is a wrong premies. maybe not all five of the people i tell are going to listen to what i have to say but some will. hey, if i have sailed dcl X number of times and am not going back, there must be something wrong. thats just not good business.

i certainly could be wrong but i would think dcl is being semi quite about everything going on because they want it to die down and given time it will. if they respond it just stirs the pot again and it will take longer for people to get over it but make no mistake, they have a strategy and i doubt its to get rid of repeaters. they may lose a little money on you up front but they will make a whole lot on the back end.
jmo

 

[waltdisneymom]

JimmyV--you are so right and you really made me think about it. After 36 cruises we don't spend the kind of money in the shop--buy the limited edition pins etc. I would say in the last 10 cruises most of our shore excursions we booked ourselves or someone cruising with us organized it. They don't get as much money out of us now. We are replaceable...oh! that really hurts.

Except we were first time cruisers last year (first time on any cruise) and all we spent extra (besides the original cruise fare) was one dinner at palo (2 people, 1 glass of wine each). No gift shop, no excursions, no extra drinks, no popcorn, etc. So I don't think it is so cut and dry that first time/new cruisers spend more. We are not super thrifty or anything. We usually stay at the grand Floridian at wdw. And we did not bring any of our own alcohol on the cruise.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

i've been thinking about this a lot. it made so much sense however the more i thought about it the more i felt that while the theory is right, it didn't all quite fit. i have a friend who worked on the magic and he said the dream was the cash cow for dcl and for the exact reasons you have said. twice as many people in a week, twice as many sales of the same things.

the part that bothers me is a lesson i learned years and years ago. i worked for a very very large business and we learned to keep the repeats happy. while we could lose money doing it, they were the free advertisement, the word of mouth. people talk bad about a company five times more that they talk good. so you annoyed a client and they would tell five who would tell five and so on. thats why i think dcl doing things to get repeaters to not come back is a wrong premies. maybe not all five of the people i tell are going to listen to what i have to say but some will. hey, if i have sailed dcl X number of times and am not going back, there must be something wrong. thats just not good business.

i certainly could be wrong but i would think dcl is being semi quite about everything going on because they want it to die down and given time it will. if they respond it just stirs the pot again and it will take longer for people to get over it but make no mistake, they have a strategy and i doubt its to get rid of repeaters. they may lose a little money on you up front but they will make a whole lot on the back end.
jmo

I would bet DCL knows about how many guests they may lose on this change. What I find interesting going to 2 or 3 other forums. The talk was never near the amount of talk as here and its dying down fast.

AKK

 

[FloridaBabe]

I would bet DCL knows about how many guests they may lose on this change. What I find interesting going to 2 or 3 other forums. The talk was never near the amount of talk as here and its dying down fast.

AKK

But those forums, well at least one of them is not known for die hard Disney nuts.

 

[tinkerone]

I would bet DCL knows about how many guests they may lose on this change. What I find interesting going to 2 or 3 other forums. The talk was never near the amount of talk as here and its dying down fast.

AKK

it will because disney is not responding to a great extent. just the one on one calls and emails to pacify people. their doing what they can to control the situation but quietly. in a month or so, this will be like it never happened. its a brilliant company move. i've been retired for three years so i had forgotten the tricks of the trade, lol. dcl would have already weighed the lose to gain ratio, they know what to expect. they placed their bet and is hoping for a win.