I guess DCL won this one...

[squirk]

Personally I think DCL wants to hold on to cruisers like us & is not trying replace us with 1st time cruisers. Again just my opinion. Flame Away......

No flaming, but I agree that families like yours are probably outliers. If you guys were the "norm", then I would think Castaway Club would be much more robust.

I'm not saying that DCL has no interest in repeat cruisers, but I agree with JimmyV's belief that, on the whole, new/inexperienced cruisers probably spend much more per capita than frequent cruisers who knows all the "tricks of the trade". And you can bet the farm that DCL is keenly aware of and most interested in the types of guests that tend to spend more than others.

 

[jetskigrl]

Clearly we are outliers as well. I can't speak for other repeat cruisers, but for us we've taken 15 Disney cruises & I think our spending has increased since our 1st cruise.
On our 1st cruise (2001), we used our DVC points to book the cruise (had a bunch in the bank) we were unsure if we would like cruising & didn't wan to spend "actual" cash. Our 1st cabin had an Oceanview, additionally we spent very little, a few souvenirs for our girls was about it. No Palo or excursions, we just walked around the various ports of call. Eventually we graduated to verandah cabins, started taking excursions, Palo dinners & brunches and more souvenirs. Our last 5 cruises have all been Concierge staterooms, the addition of "Tastings" has also bumped our spending. Dinners, Brunches & Dessert experiences at Remy has also taken a bite out our cruise dollars.
Personally I think DCL wants to hold on to cruisers like us & is not trying replace us with 1st time cruisers. Again just my opinion. Flame Away......

No flames from me, but I think our family are the outliers as well. We are the DL AP holders that only go about once a month and a lot of money is spent. We eat at their restaurants, we buy merchandise, buy water and sodas through the day, etc. DLR makes a lot of money off of us above and beyond the price we paid for the Premium AP. Same for DCL. We book verandah rooms, are waiting for the stores to open the first night, eat in Palo, book tastings, book excursions, book cabanas (when we can get them) and more.

And yet, like was described above, I do feel they have shown me very clearly that they no longer want my business. All emails regarding the alcohol change (which included questions about our upcoming cruise) have been ignored. The Shoreside Concierge team has tried to help but they don't have any more answers than we do. I tried posting a comment on the Disney Parks blog about the upcoming change to Aladdin at DCA and my comment was deleted (and it was no different than the other comments that were allowed).

With all the changes to DLR, we will not be renewing our passes in Feb 2016. And with all the changes to DCL, I am doubting at this point that we will even keep the Aug 2016 cruise we already have booked.

But the jokes on you Disney. I'm the one that is going to make out in this deal. Your treatment of me is going to save me a ton of money Not just the money for the passes or the cruise fare, but all the thousands of extra that I usually spend in those places over the course of a year. And, as everyone has pointed out - the word of mouth. We are the go-to resources for many of our friends when it comes to Disney. No longer will be recommend Disney as a way for people to spend their vacation dollars. We just can't do it anymore

 

[littleblackegg]

Not that Dreams isn't an important business relationship to DCL, and absolutely no disrespect to Pete at all, but I suspect that the number of actual cancellations that Dreams has seen due to the alcohol policy, even extrapolated across all travel agencies affiliated with DCL, is nothing more than a drop in the bucket to Disney. And, again, I bet that there is enough demand where that small void will be quickly and easily filled.

I could be totally wrong, but I suspect I'm not.

As always, your social and fiscal observations are spot on.

 

[eskimoinparadise]

And you can bet the farm that DCL is keenly aware of and most interested in the types of guests that tend to spend more than others.

I also believe Disney has a tremendous amount of very detailed data on its customers to "data mine" to get to the exact impact of all of their actions. However, based on the frequency and consistency of their outreach efforts and operational decisions lately, I fear they are using the seven dwarfs to do the mining

 

[littleblackegg]

I think you just answered your own question.

Also, companies are not people. Boards of publicly traded companies do not see abuse or people taking advantage of lenient policies and get offended. They don't worry about whether or not people are following rules UNLESS it leads to expensive litigation and PR problems. So, no matter what, it is about the bottom line. No one at DCL is fretting rules unless the company's shareholders are going to feel it.

 

[littleblackegg]

Bingo!!! The more often you cruise on a given line, the less you tend to spend on board - fewer shore excursions, less merchandise from the shops, etc. A newbie, on the other hand is a spending machine. I can just hear the conversation in the boardroom: How do we get rid of the repeat cruisers and make room for more new blood. How about systematically eliminating all of the perks we gave them to get them to come back. OBB increase by loyalty level - POOF; extra goodies in the cabin - POOF; BYOB - POOF. Hey Bob, what else have we missed that we can cut???

Nah. The new cruisers spend a lot on little things. The long time cruisers are the real whales. They take more and longer cruises, they take more expensive cruises, they tend to take big family cruises, they take back-to-back cruises, they refer others to take cruises, they reserve more expensive staterooms, they eat in the premium dining rooms and of course, they book their next cruises before even getting off the ship. They are a far bigger source of substantial revenue than first-time cruisers.

 

[littleblackegg]

In reality, most of the research into this theory would indicate that the vast majority of disappointed customers simply walk away and don't say anything to anyone. The customer who is statistically most likely to follow your tell-five-others theory is the customer who first complains to the company and is either ignored or has his complaint marginalized. All companies know exactly what their customer churn rate is, and the good ones have a really good grip on what the life time value of a customer should be. If the value begins to tail off, the company will inevitably begin a process to wean that customer from the flock. One of the leading researchers in this area, Martha Rogers, postulates that 15-20% of a company's customer base actually costs them more in support and handholding than they ever return either in revenue or in "word-of-mouth" promotion.

Not really. This is what you said:


My point was that by systematically removing those perks and onboard benefits that encourage people to do additional cruises, they are in fact creating an environment that discourages re-booking. A person does not have to make the journey from satisfaction to dissatisfaction to be pruned from the customer list. All the company has to achieve is to move them to a state of indifference. BTW, that is also why the pruned customer rarely complains - indifference isn't exactly a strong emotional response - you just start looking elsewhere for satisfaction.

You know, I have been thinking a lot about how businesses plan for their current and future customer bases. The birth rate in our country is at an all-time low, and has been steadily declining. I'm wondering if Disney's changes in all their entertainment companies will reflect an even higher adult to child ratio.

 

[eskimoinparadise]

Nah. The new cruisers spend a lot on little things. The long time cruisers are the real whales. They take more and longer cruises, they take more expensive cruises, they tend to take big family cruises, they take back-to-back cruises, they refer others to take cruises, they reserve more expensive staterooms, they eat in the premium dining rooms and of course, they book their next cruises before even getting off the ship. They are a far bigger source of substantial revenue than first-time cruisers.

Don't disagree with your premise, but would proffer that long time cruisers also tend to spread their cruises amongst several cruise lines, are always looking for new and more interesting destinations, and tend to be older and less tied to kids. When we started cruising back in the 80's, we could afford one family cruise every 2-3 years, so we chose different ships and itineraries to make the most of the experience (Mostly HAL, Princess, and Sitmar). When the kids were out of the house and we were able to go back to cruising, we settled on Disney, and averaged two cruises a year for about four years. Frankly, we got bored with doing the same ol same ol itineraries, so we gave Disney a rest and ventured to other lines. More ports, more variety in the ships, cruises everywhere from 2-14 days (with no repeat ports, or doing a "b2b") and a lot less expensive. We still salt in a Disney cruise every so often, but now instead of one out of two cruises a year, it is one out of six or seven a year. Sure, we are whales, and spend quite a bit on cruises every year, just not going to do it on any one cruise line. We are among the self-pruned customers - and from the conversations we strike up with other long time cruisers on our cruises, there are a lot just like us.

 

[steves100]

Clearly we are outliers as well. I can't speak for other repeat cruisers, but for us we've taken 15 Disney cruises & I think our spending has increased since our 1st cruise.
On our 1st cruise (2001), we used our DVC points to book the cruise (had a bunch in the bank) we were unsure if we would like cruising & didn't wan to spend "actual" cash. Our 1st cabin had an Oceanview, additionally we spent very little, a few souvenirs for our girls was about it. No Palo or excursions, we just walked around the various ports of call. Eventually we graduated to verandah cabins, started taking excursions, Palo dinners & brunches and more souvenirs. Our last 5 cruises have all been Concierge staterooms, the addition of "Tastings" has also bumped our spending. Dinners, Brunches & Dessert experiences at Remy has also taken a bite out our cruise dollars.
Personally I think DCL wants to hold on to cruisers like us & is not trying replace us with 1st time cruisers. Again just my opinion. Flame Away......

Im really on the fence, my first indication is that they would prefer new travelers. They will have the wow factor and want to spend more on excursions since they havent done them yet. But, Disney is a smart organization, it would be stupid to intentionally want to alienate their loyal customers. I just feel that they are hurting a very SMALL % of their current customers.

 

[steves100]

Nah. The new cruisers spend a lot on little things. The long time cruisers are the real whales. They take more and longer cruises, they take more expensive cruises, they tend to take big family cruises, they take back-to-back cruises, they refer others to take cruises, they reserve more expensive staterooms, they eat in the premium dining rooms and of course, they book their next cruises before even getting off the ship. They are a far bigger source of substantial revenue than first-time cruisers.

Disagree 100%, the Platinum members like myself are not the WHALES. We have done most things, and because of our loyalty expect better service.

EX. If we ever went back to Alaska with Disney (NO CHANCE), we would NEVER do the dog sled with Disney. Why spend $500 per person when you can book direct for 1/2 that?

 

[ZephyrHawk]

We are the go-to resources for many of our friends when it comes to Disney. No longer will be recommend Disney as a way for people to spend their vacation dollars. We just can't do it anymore

Same here. People come to me for Disney travel advice. After this situation, I will not be encouraging my friends and family to spend the extra $$ for a DCL vacation. I will steer them towards other completely acceptable (and cheaper) cruise lines or to land-based Disney vacations. DCL has not just lost my money for the future; they lost my good opinion.

 

[littleblackegg]

Disagree 100%, the Platinum members like myself are not the WHALES. We have done most things, and because of our loyalty expect better service.

EX. If we ever went back to Alaska with Disney (NO CHANCE), we would NEVER do the dog sled with Disney. Why spend $500 per person when you can book direct for 1/2 that?

So what are you a platinum member of, dream heart? The Special People Club?

 

[tinkerone]

Same here. People come to me for Disney travel advice. After this situation, I will not be encouraging my friends and family to spend the extra $$ for a DCL vacation. I will steer them towards other completely acceptable (and cheaper) cruise lines or to land-based Disney vacations. DCL has not just lost my money for the future; they lost my good opinion.

Ditto. very well said.

 

[darkwing818]

Im really on the fence, my first indication is that they would prefer new travelers. They will have the wow factor and want to spend more on excursions since they havent done them yet. But, Disney is a smart organization, it would be stupid to intentionally want to alienate their loyal customers. I just feel that they are hurting a very SMALL % of their current customers.

Glad to see your on the fence on this one, I'm honored (just semi-kidding). I totally agree that alienating their loyal customers would "just plain stupid".

But I do I think (JMHO) that one part of DCL Business model is to introduce new folks to cruising via the 3 & 4 day cruises & then "hook" them into longer more expensive cruises. Once their hooked they buy more stuff, take excursions & buy more drinks (sorry sore subject) tell their friends etc.

For me, what bugged me the most was the way they implemented & Communicated the new "No Carry-on" alcohol policy had a lot to be desired.

 

[steves100]

Glad to see your on the fence on this one, I'm honored (just semi-kidding). I totally agree that alienating their loyal customers would "just plain stupid".

But I do I think (JMHO) that one part of DCL Business model is to introduce new folks to cruising via the 3 & 4 day cruises & then "hook" them into longer more expensive cruises. Once their hooked they buy more stuff, take excursions & buy more drinks (sorry sore subject) tell their friends etc.

For me, what bugged me the most was the way they implemented & Communicated the new "No Carry-on" alcohol policy had a lot to be desired.

I'm mad because the people I introduced to Disney all think they can bring ALOT of alcohol on board : )

 

[steves100]

So what are you a platinum member of, dream heart? The Special People Club?

What?

 

[suebecdan]

I have been crusing for over 30 years. I am not loyal to just one company. DCL might be a great cruise line for kids but there are others out there just as good. My boys loved the Dreamworks cruise experience. I am sure that DCL might lose a few repeat guests but there are so many other new customers that they don't really care. Unfortunately, they upset a large community of people that felt cheated out of another benefit. We all know DCL is $$$ compared to other cruise lines. It stinks that they continue to remove the perks.

 

[TheRealDrDisney]

This thread reminds me of the dire predictions being made on this site when Disney changed their smoking on the balconies policy. After all of that doom and gloom I'm shocked (shocked I tell you!) that DCL is still in business!

 

[Orukal]

So what are you a platinum member of, dream heart? The Special People Club?

Platinum member of the DCL Castaway Club, actually.

 

[longboard55]

I actually like the bars. I know it costs more, but good place to meet people, talk to the bartender, we like the ambiance. We always bring liquor for the room but seldom drink it. My problem is not getting enough to drink, its drinking too much.