I don't understand why its such a big deal to take your children out of school..

[In a hurry]

what is an SW?

I'm sorry! My husband is a Social Worker! I swear they are the biggest whiners around! I love mine, though!

 

[MrsPete]

Obviously my previous post wasnt read. THERE IS NO FREE TIME!! The time used when the kids are in gym (what art? that got cut 2 years ago and there has been no music for at least that long.) is for cluster meetings. That, just so you know, is when the 8th grade teachers (or whatever grade) get together to discuss the curriculum, the students, etc. There has been no prep period for a couple of years either. I will also mention that the kids get a half hour for lunch. Taking the time to take them down and settled before they chow and head to recess takes about 15 minutes. The remainder of that time is for the teachers to eat.

This is true. People assume that any minute teachers aren't actively standing in front of students providing instruction is "planning time" available for paper grading, etc. Anyone who's taught knows that this is not true.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I dont think you can even compare the jobs listed above with teaching. Being a firefighter or a police officer is a much different type of job. But wait...dont firefighters work just 3 or 4 days a week? Teachers work 5. Again, not comparing because it is impossible to do. I am curious as to what you think the "excellent benefits" are? Besides having a month off for the summer...

We went on a field trip to the fire station with our homeschool group.


Very surprising how you demeaned their jobs just then b/c they "only" work 3 or 4 days a week and you work 5. In our county--the firefighter/paramedics/EMT's...work a 24 hour shift. They work 2 to 3 days a week..so a minimum of 48 hours. They have "down" time--but they a lot of work to do so that equipment and staff are available to save people when they are called. Their job description includes having to wear full gear and carry a human being out of danger. They have to keep in shape for an annual physical test (I forget what it is called). I am sure their gym time is neither compensated in pay nor in fees. But yet--if they don't pass muster...they lose their job. Just like if you don't manage your time in whatever way is necessary to plan your classes so that the kids can get educated and evaluated...I'm sure you wouldn't be keeping a job for too long either.

The fact that you have benefits--makes it excellent. You have access to retirement, health, dental, and life insurance I am sure. And according to a litlte poll--you do get paid sick leave and such (when some jobs--no work--no pay!). So relatively speaking..that is excellent to have those benefits--even if you may not think they are the greatest.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm sorry! My husband is a Social Worker! I swear they are the biggest whiners around! I love mine, though!

No worries--SW in my hubby's field is software and I was trying to figure out what a software person would be complaining about.

 

[MrsPete]

However--it boils down to affective use of time and how you choose to take care of business. IF I were a teacher...I'm the kind that likes to get it done during the day and not on the weekends...so I'd come in early--or stay a bit late...so as to avoid bringing it home. And sheer excitement for school...I'm sure it would be on my mind all the time and me constantly looking for ways to improve my classroom...and especially back to school time. But that would be personal preference and I wouldn't go on and on about it.

You control your career--how much time you do or don't put into it is solely up to you.

Every teacher on this thread is laughing right now! You can't get it done during the school day -- even if you stay late. Well, let me clarify that: you cannot do it well and get it done during the school day.

I'm not complaining about my job -- just telling you some of what's involved -- most days I enjoy it, and even with its problems, there's no other job I'd care to have. However, it's laughable when someone who doesn't have a clue says I wouldn't have to bring papers home if I could just use my time more effectively!

I'm sure your contract doesn't explicitly spell out that you must give tests and such--but it is part of the job and you cannot evaluate the students if you don't grade the tests. It is part of the job. (this is just an example--I don't need an extensive laundry list as I am well aware of all the things teachers do. )..

Actually, my job description DOES require that I give tests. And it specifies quite a few other things that I must do; it tells me, for example, specifically which skills must be covered in my class.

I really don't think you do know what a public school teachers' job entails.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

On the other hand, if I take a day off (assuming I'm not sick) for personal reasons, it's deducted from my paycheck.

My husband, on the other hand, who's also a salaried employee can tell his boss, "I need to go to a meeting with my accountant this afternoon" and he's not docked -- if he did it too often, of course, he would be. This is fair because he frequently works long hours and weekends when the work dictates.

Well, when I worked--I accrued sick days. And if I was sick and didn't have enough...I just didn't get paid. I was hourly.

Since you are salaried and contracted to work X-number of days (or whatever the contract says)--it makes sense that you be docked if you don't have a sick day available. The primary function of the teacher is to teach in class.

All my husband's hours are documented even though he is salaried. It is because the hours are billable by the company to the customer whose project he is working on. He has to account for 40 hours per week. And it must add up to 40. If he didn't had to take time off for something that was not covered by Sick leave or personal business--he woudl have to get approval and the paycheck would be docked accordingly. Some do this when they have a vacation and no vacation hours--but it has to be pre-approved.

Docking always sounds much worse than it is.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Every teacher on this thread is laughing right now! You can't get it done during the school day -- even if you stay late. Well, let me clarify that: you cannot do it well and get it done during the school day.

They can laugh--but I will laugh right back at their poor reading comprehension skills.

When I worked--my day was 7:45 to 4:45 (I think--been so long I can't remember!). If I had stuff I needed to get done...I'd come in at 7--or 6:30---heck, I've come in at 5am. In the evening....I'd stay late if necessary.

I said--come in early and stay late. Now point out that spot where I said get it done during the school day in that quote.

I'll wait right here for you.

Coudn't find it--could you?

If I had to report to work at 7:15...I would come at 6:45...alot can be accomplished in 30 minutes. If teaching was done at 2:30--I had bus duty or whatever duty until 3:30-4:00...I would stay until 5pm and get something done in that hour. And for days when you aren't scheduled for those duties---well, you've got even more time to get stuff done "after" the school day has concluded. These are just examples--laugh if you must....but that is just how "I" choose to manage my time.

And you can save all that stuff about having a family. YOu can work it out with your spouse if necessary--but there are many women in the work force who are NOT teachers and do what is necessary to have family time and do their jobs.

 

[MrsPete]

Well, when I worked--I accrued sick days. And if I was sick and didn't have enough...I just didn't get paid. I was hourly.

Since you are salaried and contracted to work X-number of days (or whatever the contract says)--it makes sense that you be docked if you don't have a sick day available. The primary function of the teacher is to teach in class.

I think you missed my point. We're salaried when it's convenient for the school system. They can say, "You must put in the necessary number of hours." But if I want to do something personal -- not a sick day -- even on a workday when students are not present, then I'm not paid for that time. So they treat us like hourly employees when it suits them.

 

[WIcruizer]

I think we need to consider the norm, not what any one individual school district has in terms of time off, benefits ,etc.

I would use the word "common" to describe how many teachers get 3 months off. That's not just summer, it includes Christmas Break, Spring Break, various teachers conferences, etc. Add it all up and the average is pretty close to 3 months off in an awful lot of states/districts. Excellent benefits and a pension are also a given in most areas.

As far as other work performed during the school day, of course I acknowledge that. I didn't mean to imply that ALL that time was available to grade papers and work on lesson plans. Just that SOME time was available.

Every teacher on this thread is laughing right now! You can't get it done during the school day -- even if you stay late. Well, let me clarify that: you cannot do it well and get it done during the school day.

Since you mentioned prom, i would guess you're a HS teacher. That's a different situation. There is more work involved grading papers, and you certainly can't get it all done during the day. Then again, HS teachers are paid more than K-6.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Actually, my job description DOES require that I give tests. And it specifies quite a few other things that I must do; it tells me, for example, specifically which skills must be covered in my class.

I really don't think you do know what a public school teachers' job entails.

Well I do know that if you must GIVE them...then you must GRADE them as that would be implied.

The point is---you are paid a salary to do all of what your job entails. It isn't hourly---and if you add up clock hours...we're talking like 50 hours per week...maybe 60 on a really busy week?

What--maybe a 7a-4p workday on average....Yeah--you've just described corporate America.

Let's see---I don't recall the numbers...so I will pull one out of a hat...$30,000 (I think someone posted 27K...I had a friend who made close to 40K when she started). That is $14 an hour for a 40 work week....Just under 10 hours on a bad week that is 60 hours.

My last job was challenging and difficult--and in that example...the equivilant hourly wage was still more than what I was making in both calculations.

Love your job--most do appreciate your job. Could you be paid more...yes you could. Should you....yes, you probably should.

But it is one of those things---of if you really LOVE it...should it really matter? Probably not. It isn't a job to get wealthy on...it isn't a wage job. It is salaried...and that places you so far ahead of so many in America.

Don't assume what people know just by a silly message bored. I have friends who are teachers...I wanted to be a teacher...I was very very cognizant of what my teachers did for me. Last I checked--teachers are wonderful...but they don't know everything . Especially when it comes to what they assume about other people!

 

[skbasnett]

We went on a field trip to the fire station with our homeschool group.


Very surprising how you demeaned their jobs just then b/c they "only" work 3 or 4 days a week and you work 5. In our county--the firefighter/paramedics/EMT's...work a 24 hour shift. They work 2 to 3 days a week..so a minimum of 48 hours. They have "down" time--but they a lot of work to do so that equipment and staff are available to save people when they are called. Their job description includes having to wear full gear and carry a human being out of danger. They have to keep in shape for an annual physical test (I forget what it is called). I am sure their gym time is neither compensated in pay nor in fees. But yet--if they don't pass muster...they lose their job. Just like if you don't manage your time in whatever way is necessary to plan your classes so that the kids can get educated and evaluated...I'm sure you wouldn't be keeping a job for too long either.

The fact that you have benefits--makes it excellent. You have access to retirement, health, dental, and life insurance I am sure. And according to a litlte poll--you do get paid sick leave and such (when some jobs--no work--no pay!). So relatively speaking..that is excellent to have those benefits--even if you may not think they are the greatest.

Again...you didnt read my post very well. I said that You can not compare the jobs. OBVISOULY a firefighter or a policeman has much harder work. Only a fool would think otherwise.

And...if you had been READING my posts, I personally am not a teacher. My parents and my sister are and I hear the hassels and trials that they go through on a daily basis. I could never do the teaching job. I tried it. I hated it. I applaud them everyday for having to go in and work with the students they have. They have a very difficult job and they go in with smiling faces. They may not come out with them, but they love their students and they love their work.

Do you realize teachers have to work well into their 60's (here in MA anyways) before they can get their 80% for pension? Do you also realize that here they do NOT get their insurance covered for them? That is wonderful that they do in some states, but here I still ask...what is the benefit?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think you missed my point. We're salaried when it's convenient for the school system. They can say, "You must put in the necessary number of hours." But if I want to do something personal -- not a sick day -- even on a workday when students are not present, then I'm not paid for that time. So they treat us like hourly employees when it suits them.

If you have a contract that states X-number of days and you don't work on that day...then you shouldn't be paid for it as you are not meeting the obligation of the contract.

And if teachers have to do soooo much on their own time--why would you do something personal on a day when class isn't in session (since you say your aren't sick). That's a whole--5-8 hours...wasted...b/c you wanted to do something....personal?

 

[skbasnett]

If you have a contract that states X-number of days and you don't work on that day...then you shouldn't be paid for it as you are not meeting the obligation of the contract.

And if teachers have to do soooo much on their own time--why would you do something personal on a day when class isn't in session (since you say your aren't sick). That's a whole--5-8 hours...wasted...b/c you wanted to do something....personal?

you really are grasping at straws right now...you know that!!

 

[MrsPete]

They can laugh--but I will laugh right back at their poor reading comprehension skills. .

Well, that's a comment out of left field, but at least I do know the difference between the words effectively and affectively.

I said--come in early and stay late. Now point out that spot where I said get it done during the school day in that quote

Let me re-word it: Unless you're going to stay several extra hours several days per week, you're not going to complete everything in the course of the week. Thirty minutes a day won't get the job done. Given that the grading can be carted home, most people would find the extra time at school impractical. Then there are more disruptions at school; today,for example, I tried to stay a little late, but the step team was practicing right outside my window and I couldn't accomplish anything because of the noise. Again, this is the type of thing that people who actually teach know and people who speculate about teaching think they know.

And you can save all that stuff about having a family. YOu can work it out with your spouse if necessary--but there are many women in the work force who are NOT teachers and do what is necessary to have family time and do their jobs.

Who said anything about that? It'd be foolish to say that women in one job can do something that women in other jobs can't; in fact, I really don't know how women who work until 5:00 manage to do it.

 

[WIcruizer]

Last I checked--teachers are wonderful...but they don't know everything

Actually, that's not entirely true. Some, probably even MOST teachers are wonderful. But just like any group, there are also bad teachers. Unfortunately, in unionized areas, a bad teacher gets the same wage scale as the very best, most dedicated teachers. Further, it's near impossible to fire them.

I'm not teacher-bashing. My wife was a public school teacher. Some of the people I admire the most were some of the teachers I had from K-College. Maybe it's a catch-22, but teachers seem to complain about their occupation more than any other group I know. Is it because how they're treated by parents and the public at large? Hard to say. It's a chicken or the egg situation.

 

[skbasnett]

.

Who said anything about that? It'd be foolish to say that women in one job can do something that women in other jobs can't; in fact, I really don't know how women who work until 5:00 manage to do it.

MrsPete I am on your side. having had parents in the system for over 20 years each, I am suprised that they were able to do what they have done. They managed to raise 3 kids, work late, go in early, and still make it to our own events. Pooh (sorry I dont actually know your screen name) just doesnt think people should do things with family it seems.

I have a DS2 and I work til 5. I get to see him only for 2 hours a day and it breaks my heart. Maybe I should just stay home and sit on disboards all day. Oh wait, I do that at work!!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Do you realize teachers have to work well into their 60's (here in MA anyways) before they can get their 80% for pension? Do you also realize that here they do NOT get their insurance covered for them? That is wonderful that they do in some states, but here I still ask...what is the benefit?

Yeah--but that is a problem in much of America..not just the teaching profession. Anyone today who begins working and relies soley on pension....needs a financial planner.

A relative of my husband who taught in Brevard county for many years just retired....I forget how long he worked....but he did his time...per his financial plan...and now he's done.

Having insurance available is the benefit. Whether or not you have to pay out of pocket for the coverage. My husband pays every month for ours.

And why do you keep assuming we aren't reading you posts--you said they don't compare and I think they do. First off--you said "they only" --as if you could so easily write off what they do for a living. But yet...cannot see with your own eyes...how disrespecting that was even if you do appreciate all their hard work. Do you realize how condescending that was toward one profession? Do you know why they work so few days per week? It's b/c they are there for 24 hours when they show up!

If you go for something you LOVE to do--then you really should have no complaints at all. I appreciated all my teachers...and it isn't the teaching profession personally that has driven me to home school. Multitude of other things actually.

Just WOW! It really is as if the few posting on here have chips on their shoulders b/c of their teaching career or someone close to them is in teaching.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

you really are grasping at straws right now...you know that!!

Umm...no.

What does YOUR contract stipulate?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Well, that's a comment out of left field, but at least I do know the difference between the words effectively and affectively.

Oh goody for you--as do I...but I like to type quickly and didn't realize I was being graded on this assignment.

 

[MrsPete]

And if teachers have to do soooo much on their own time--why would you do something personal on a day when class isn't in session (since you say your aren't sick). That's a whole--5-8 hours...wasted...b/c you wanted to do something....personal?

Most of us occasionally need to keep appointments that just don't fit into the time slots we'd like. Meetings with the accountant, parent-teacher conferences for our elementary school kids, etc.

I think you are still missing the point: I was pointing out that the school system treats us like salaried employees when it suits them and treats us like hourly employees when it doesn't. This is not true of most salaried employees.

The last time I actually took off work for a non-sick day was eight years ago. My niece was born with a serious medical problem, and I drove to another city to pick up her big sister so her parents could go with her to a regional hospital that could treat her. So it's been a while since I personally took time off for something personal.